33 replies to this topic

[Captain Midnight]

For those of you who weren't in closed beta and don't know a whole heck of a lot about battletech, let me throw out a couple things.

1. "Clan" mechs, as in Jade Falcon, Smoke Jaguar, etc are BETTER than Inner Sphere mechs (what we've got). Straight up better. There is no attempt at balance made whatsoever, they are just a complete improvement. In the battletech stories 20 clan mechs could conquer a planet if they had the ammo to last them.

2. A lot of the balance problems in this game are specifically based on the game being a copy of battletech. The weights, damages, and heat for all the weapons are ripped right off the pages of a battletech rulebook. There are a COUPLE exceptions (large laser got it's damage upped by 1, and LRMs/SRMs are slightly altered as well).

3. Battletech, as a setting, takes place over a series of years in the 3000s. Just like in real life military, the technology of 50 years down the road is far more lethal and much more effective. It's not "balanced" at all and it's not supposed to be. Once Double Heatsinks were released in the battletech Canon they were STRICTLY an upgrade. Endosteel, also strictly an upgrade. It's just BETTER and that's that. XL engines are one of the few lateral upgrades, more speed or tons at the expense of survivability. Almost everything else as I said it just a complete improvement.

Let's now look at some of the problems this has caused and will cause...

PPCs have horrid heat, low damage, not enough range compared to a Gauss, and no interesting cockpit effects or anything to try and offset that. We could easily fix the PPC by increasing it's damage, reducing it's heat + rate of fire, or adding in some sort of extremely nasty cockpit effects and in the future I predict they will do some or all of these things.

MGs suck, because they sucked in TT and they were only for killing vehicles and infantry (that we don't even have in this game). Let's throw TT numbers out the window and balance around competitive e-sports multiplayer.

TT IS DEAD LONG LIVE MWO. Tabletop for as much as I love it, as much as a LOT of other founders probably love it... It was never that successful. Even at it's heyday it just wasn't the kind of successful a game like MWO needs. Also, MWO is real time, it's completely different!

I want the game to play and feel like Mechwarrior without putting so much effort into staying true to Canon that it doesn't feel like mechwarrior anymore.

Changing DHS is the first serious step away from TT and in the direction of progress, and I like what I'm seeing!

[XvDraxvX]

TT was a great base to start from but eventually you have to build up and create new experiences from that Base.

So i agree Thanks TT for the start but lets move on

[Balsover]

Actually I found Multiplayer Battletech 3025 captured the tabletop feel almost perfectly. They has pretty much the right idea when it came to a Battletech sim game.

[Ikarti Danaro]

THE ERA OF THE TETATAE

[Stimbles]

I have to agree that with a change like DOUBLE heat sinks not being DOUBLE heat sinks, might as well throw out the tabletop values and start over again from scratch.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

lol people still stuffing the 'we don't want TT' strawman? thought you guys finally called it quits when your strawman fell off its pole.

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 02 November 2012 - 02:05 PM.

[RAM]

Captain Midnight, on 02 November 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

2. A lot of the balance problems in this game are specifically based on the game being a copy of battletech.

Actually most of the problems are directly due to deviation from canon – not adherence to it.


RAM
ELH

[IIIuminaughty]

no difference in clan or innersphere its the pilot that makes the difference

[ManDaisy]

Wow mods are not staff... they are guys like us.

[Sandpit]

I agree with the previous post on MPBT having it very close to TT and having a great game balance. Things "felt" more like TT while still keeping everythign in balance as far as not having any OP mechs. The downside to that was there was no customization. Personally I think customization is where we get all of the balance issues. (Customization also deviates from TT for the most part) Trying to balance a munch mech is MUCH more difficult than balancing mechs that won't change. You have to try and account for every little build that players will use

Edited by Niko Snow, 03 November 2012 - 01:30 PM.
Quote/Context Policy

[Dakkath]

ManDaisy, on 02 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Wow mods are not staff... they are guys like us.

This.

[SquareSphere]

haha, good luck with that idea OP, MWLL is generally PANNED by at large BT/MW community for throwing out the rule books and doing their own balance, ie ML are 2 tons.

AND I LOVE MWLL but the vast majority of the community has already spoken by their "playing/not playing" votes.

[Wun]

ManDaisy, on 02 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Wow mods are not staff... they are guys like us.

I didnt know that.

IMO its a horrible idea to have non-staff mods on an official forums. I have had nothing but bad experiences with game developers that allowed community members to moderate themselves on the official forums. Fansites exist for that purpose. Official forums should have official moderation or they are nothing but an officially sanctioned fansite.


*back to topic*

There have to be changes made to convert a turn based rules system into a real-time system. Trying out different methods of keeping the balance and feel of the game right is exactly what is supposed to happen when the game is in the closed beta stage.

The only problem I see is that... its past closed beta and mistakes while experimenting are going to cause longer term loss of player base because people do leave over mechanics that later get fixed. I sure hope Pirhana actively pursues the opinions of open beta players that play a couple battles then dont come back. Thats alot of lost revenue to ignore all but the hardcore fans.

Edited by Wun, 02 November 2012 - 03:10 PM.

[Dihm]

StrataDragoon, on 02 November 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

no difference in clan or innersphere its the pilot that makes the difference

That is wildly inaccurate...

There are significant benefits to Clan technology, with no downsides.

[Captain Midnight]

RAM, on 02 November 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

Actually most of the problems are directly due to deviation from canon – not adherence to it.


RAM
ELH

I'd be curious what you think the negative deviation is? I can't think of anything that is changed from TT for the worse, and most of the problems are for the sake of adherance to TT.

[IIIuminaughty]

Dihm, on 02 November 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

That is wildly inaccurate...

There are significant benefits to Clan technology, with no downsides.

How is it "wildly" inaccurate
If the other pilot is better than u he is better than u period

[Captain Midnight]

StrataDragoon, on 02 November 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

How is it "wildly" inaccurate
If the other pilot is better than u he is better than u period

A clan DHS uses 1 ton and 2 criticals. An IS DHS uses 1 ton and 3 criticals. The list goes on.

Edited by Niko Snow, 03 November 2012 - 01:35 PM.
Code of Conduct

[Fl3tcher]

Dihm, on 02 November 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

That is wildly inaccurate...

There are significant benefits to Clan technology, with no downsides.

The higher heat generation of alot of clan weapons may be an issues now that DHS don't follow the TT rules
I can't wait to see the first Mad Cat to spam lasers and lrms explode like a 4th of July firework

[Tickdoff Tank]

StrataDragoon, on 02 November 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

no difference in clan or innersphere its the pilot that makes the difference

That is absolutely false. Clan tech is simply better. It is supposed to be. That does not mean that the difference in effectiveness is greater than the skill a pilot brings, but to say that clan tech is equal to IS tech is absurd.

[DoRkZiLLaa]

Captain Midnight, on 02 November 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

PPCs have horrid heat, low damage, not enough range compared to a Gauss, and no interesting cockpit effects or anything to try and offset that. We could easily fix the PPC by increasing it's damage, reducing it's heat + rate of fire, or adding in some sort of extremely nasty cockpit effects and in the future I predict they will do some or all of these things.

The bigger issue with them is the hit detection. The reason they feel weak is that half the hits that you see do no damage to the enemy.