41 replies to this topic

[osito]

I don't like xl engines, unless its a fast mech or a sniper. I do like this mechs weapons package. If i was piloting it in this game i would save up and change the heat sinks out. Plus with near max armor it can still take a o.k beating and dish out some pain before dropping. Plus the old atlas with all its ammo based weapons w/out case was always in danger of a ammo explosion as well.

[LordDeathStrike]

ill be dropping the xl engine back to a regular, screw death by side torso. (or massive loss of speed by side torso if they balance it so you dont die from losing side torso engine, but instead lose like half of your power output and have a much greater chance of a core breach nuke on hit)

my model K will keep the 2 er large lasers, the lrm 20, the guass. the engine must be dropped down to non xl, reduced in size since it will weigh more, with this kind of long range punch i dont need speed. i am a walking fortress, thats all i need, 19 tons of armor and long range slappyness.

depending on how many tons i have for more heat sinks, i may well drop both med pulse lasers for more heat sinks for the larges. if my heat curve is healthy enough i may put in a couple er meds for closer protection. but def not hotter then hell pulsers.

one thing i will def add is additional lrm 20 and guass ammo, i want at least 2 reloads for each. god bless the mechlab!

Edited by LordDeathStrike, 10 April 2012 - 09:37 PM.

[Der Kommissar]

Every now and then I can forgive an XL engine. The Devastator comes to mind.

[Soviet Alex]

I like the Atlas-7K. The Gauss Rifle makes it less useless at range, & it's one of the first production mechs to mount that beast. But I have to agree that double-strength heat sinks would be more use than the XL-engine. Unfortunately, the background said that the Combine's rate of DHS production couldn't keep up with demand until the mid-3050's. Hopefully I can rack up enough Loyalty Points to go to the head of the queue.

[Dihm]

Garth Erlam, on 10 April 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

I too am a proponent of non-XL engines in my 'Mechs. Too many TT games seen lost to XL fails.

So Garth, do tell, how are XL engines handled in MWO?

[SilentSooYun]

An XL is forgivable in a fire support role, as long as the Atlas-K's pilot can rely on his lancemates to screen him from "bugs"... and his lancemates can rely on the Atlas-K not to go charging in like a souped-up Grasshopper.

Otherwise I agree; non-Clan XL engines are too vulnerable. The extra armour, firepower, and/or speed doesn't quite compensate for being three times more vulnerable to crit fail. I'd have used DHS and Endo before dropping the plant down to XL.

[HereticTLL]

In my opinion Non-Clan XL engines were always too fragile in CBT for direct translation to MW games; if in CBT XL Engines required 4 Torso crit hits, or 3 CT Engine hits then it'd balance much better in MW games vs the Standard Engines. In CBT Terms that would mean if you get 3 CT Engine Crits; or 3 Torso Engine crits + 1CT Engine crit; or 4 Torso Engine Crits then the Egnine is destroyed.

Of course loosing the side torso engine crits would slow you down and hamper heat efficiency greatly, but the destruction of the engine via the side torso is too great a negative to make XL engines viable in an (almost) hit-scan environment.

[Naughtyboy]

well XL engines got its up and down...good side, better speed..,lighter but it also is larger wich makes it more easy to hit and destroy then a standard engine so you either you chose speed and more guns and a risk of getting your arse wooped easier ,or you chose standard engine with its slower speed and less weapons but harder to take down.

I think an XL engine on something more close to a Static turret is a waste of such a wonderful thing as a state of the art product as an XL engine, on a smaller mech though its another thing..Look at many light mechs with XL engines that is where it belongs.

[Mason Grimm]

Agreed.

Throw an XL on a Locust and amp up an already quick mech to insane speeds. A locust is a one hit wonder for most powerful weapons anyways. With those kinds of speed you just need to make sure you got the transversal down pat and then you be rockin it!

Throw an XL in something already slow, just to save some space and weight for more weapons, and you are gonna be crispy creamed before you get a chance to do much.

[Chuckie]

I simply can't wait to get my hands on the game and Mech Lab.. then add double heat sinks, endo, XL and a extra PPC to my Awesome..

[CPTAmerica]

Unfortunately, the majority of the 3050TRO 'mechs are like this. Many battlemech designs suffered with the introduction of XL Engines in that they may have been survivable, or only marginally so, only to be hamstrung by a quick death to a side torso breach with the upgrade. I often thought, 'why in the world did they put that in there when the 'mech was just fine before?' Then, as I grew older, I saw the very same thing happening in real life.

What does everyone do when a new piece of high tech comes out on the market? They rush to find some way to implement it into their lives. It is not until after it is out in the market being used by the people that it is determined to be flawed or maybe not the best way to utilize it.

All I'm saying is that these upgraded variants are just a reflection of how we as humans are. "Ooh! It's new and flashy and expensive and they're doing it over there so let's do it here too!"

[verybad]

Mason Grimm, on 11 April 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

Agreed.

Throw an XL on a Locust and amp up an already quick mech to insane speeds. A locust is a one hit wonder for most powerful weapons anyways. With those kinds of speed you just need to make sure you got the transversal down pat and then you be rockin it!

Throw an XL in something already slow, just to save some space and weight for more weapons, and you are gonna be crispy creamed before you get a chance to do much.

Well, yes and no. If you're goinna put it in a slow mech, a Support mech like the AS7-K is the way to go, as they are almost by definition, screened from other mechs in a properly run force. If you can put that much mroe firepower on a mech, it can mean a few more kills, so long as the support mech is careful.

However, watching noobs run head long into battle with such mechs when and or if it becomes available will also add a certain value to the gaming experience. A mech with the Atlases level of armor can still take quite a bit of damage before it goes kablooe.

So it's something that i would consider useful to have providing support, so long as there is a THOUGHTFUL pilot onboard.

Edited by verybad, 11 April 2012 - 11:54 AM.

[Soviet Alex]

@CPTAmerica: You make a very good point, but in the case of TRO3050 it was deliberate. The factories crammed whatever newtech they had into whatever mechs they were building. Look at the Awesome-9M with its Streak-2s. An overheat merchant with ammo on board? Lunacy! Mechs designed from the ground up to use advanced tech are in TRO3055 onwards, & they are generally better thought-out.

[Soviet Alex]

Mason Grimm, on 11 April 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

Throw an XL on a Locust and amp up an already quick mech to insane speeds. A locust is a one hit wonder for most powerful weapons anyways. With those kinds of speed you just need to make sure you got the transversal down pat and then you be rockin it!

Talon. Locust-fast, XL-engine, ER-PPC. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Talon
Hussar. Without an XL-engine, it's a firework on legs. With one, it's like the Talon, but faster! Mee-meep! http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hussar

[Thomas Hogarth]

LordDeathStrike, on 10 April 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

ill be dropping the xl engine back to a regular, screw death by side torso. (or massive loss of speed by side torso if they balance it so you dont die from losing side torso engine, but instead lose like half of your power output and have a much greater chance of a core breach nuke on hit)

my model K will keep the 2 er large lasers, the lrm 20, the guass. the engine must be dropped down to non xl, reduced in size since it will weigh more, with this kind of long range punch i dont need speed. i am a walking fortress, thats all i need, 19 tons of armor and long range slappyness.

depending on how many tons i have for more heat sinks, i may well drop both med pulse lasers for more heat sinks for the larges. if my heat curve is healthy enough i may put in a couple er meds for closer protection. but def not hotter then hell pulsers.

one thing i will def add is additional lrm 20 and guass ammo, i want at least 2 reloads for each. god bless the mechlab!

Where on earth are you going to get the extra 4.5 tons you need to downgrade to XL? That's after removing everything but what you've listed. You could drop heat sinks, but that leaves you even more critically undersinked.

Also, swapping a XL for standard(or vice versa) is one of the hardest things to do in terms of refits. You have to send it off to the factory to do it, which probably means shutting down some part of the production line, which means you could probably buy a dozen or so AS7-Ks for the cost of one of your customs - if PGI does refit costs right.

wait a minute. You mean moving down to 2/3 or 30ish kph running speed? Yeah, that'll work. It'll take you a full minute to travel a kilometer, and you will out-run NOTHING, but yeah, it's doable.

Edited by Thomas Hogarth, 11 April 2012 - 09:48 PM.

[EDMW CSN]

Fire 1 ER Large, Gauss rifle and LRM-20 and ye fine. Treat the other ER Large as a backup equipment.
Keep them at arm's length and ye will do fine.

Too close however will ruin your day, those med pulses have a shorter range than med lasers.

[pursang]

Mason Grimm, on 11 April 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

Agreed.

Throw an XL on a Locust and amp up an already quick mech to insane speeds. A locust is a one hit wonder for most powerful weapons anyways. With those kinds of speed you just need to make sure you got the transversal down pat and then you be rockin it!

Throw an XL in something already slow, just to save some space and weight for more weapons, and you are gonna be crispy creamed before you get a chance to do much.

What? C'mon Mason! Don't tell me you've never heard the term "glass cannon" before!

[Chuckie]

CPTAmerica, on 11 April 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

All I'm saying is that these upgraded variants are just a reflection of how we as humans are. "Ooh! It's new and flashy and expensive and they're doing it over there so let's do it here too!"

With 4 PPCs, and Dual Heat Sinks and a XL upgrade.. Ill hopefully be showing a lot of mechs something flashy, while being able to get out of my own way and not shutdown due to overheating..

[Garth Erlam]

I respect glass cannons, but enough 'Mech 3/4 games in my Nova taught me the importance of as much armour as you can strap to a low-profile 'Mech.

[pursang]

Garth Erlam, on 12 April 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

I respect glass cannons, but enough 'Mech 3/4 games in my Nova taught me the importance of as much armour as you can strap to a low-profile 'Mech.

True enough. I suppose I'm just spoiled from games like MW4 which let you have the capabilty to do several alpha-strikes from hit-scan direct-damage weapons.