63 replies to this topic

[Ransack]

Quote

Mechs with no arms shouldn't be able to stand at all.
Entirely appropriate and would stop the light mech or med mech circle jerking from such close range.

then mechs without proper "arms" like, Stalkers, Jagers, Catapults, jenners, Cicadas, would be bowling pins.

I don't like that idea

[PANZERBUNNY]

Ransack, on 27 March 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

then mechs without proper "arms" like, Stalkers, Jagers, Catapults, jenners, Cicadas, would be bowling pins.

I don't like that idea

All mechs get up at the same speed..THOUGH..I think we should give hand actuators a reason to exist beyond restricting certain weapons in the limbs.

Apart from a few things, collision was fine before. The glitch getting up and Dragon bowling were the only issues.

Collision is ESSENTIAL to force lights back into their role instead of zippy zappy warriors flying around without consequence.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 27 March 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[Sierra19]

Well, tripping/knockdowns needs to be back in, because they way lights run in under an assault's weapons, smack into the the other mech's leg, then magically appear on the other side undamaged is frustrating. Back in closed beta, light pilots couldn't ping pong into a group of mechs like they do now. Collisions would also solve A LOT of the issues with ECM right now, as you could knock the light mech down, and then blast them before they get up.

Edited by Sierra19, 27 March 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[maxdest]

What I would add is three stats to every mech variant n order to futher differentiate chasis / variants:

• Ram
  
• Balance
  
• Knock down period

Ram would add a bonus to chance of enemy damage / knockdown with a bonus for 'good rammers' e.g. Dragon / Awesome.

Balance would reduce the chance of your own knockdown, and be better for agile mechs e.g. Spider

Knock down period would be the time that it takes a mech to get up. This period would be shorter for agile mechs, and those with with human like arms, and longer for heavy mechs, mechs with 'wing arms' and those with damaged arms/legs.


Damage of collison
Based off the weights and relative speeds of participants (i.e. use physics) plus any ram bonus. This would be spread damage rather than focused, and the same to both participants (except for the ram bonus to opponent damage), Obviously 10 damage to an atlas leg is less of a problem than 10 damage to a Jenner's right torso.

Knockdown chance
Again based on physics (i.e. the larger participant is less likely to fall) plus oponents ram bonus, minus your balance bonus.

Abuse stopper
After every collision both participants would be unable to have another collision for 5 seconds. If you were knocked down, then the 5 seconds starts after you get up. This removes the chance for 'knockdown locks' which are plain un-fun.

In addition no collisions during the first 10 seconds of match (this should probably apply to weapons fire too) to prevent acidents at match start.

Other ideas
As 'normal' internals are heavier than 'Endo', could add a bonus to balance stat.
Fero Fibrous armour is tougher and could reduce collison damage.
Pilot modules to increase ram / balance.

All these changes would help encourage variety in builds.

[PANZERBUNNY]

It will also SLOW the game down. It will make people think more about their placements in regards to teammates instead of jamming and ramming through each other to get at the enemy.

An ***** trying to score that kill and squeeze past will knock you both down and that one enemy will finish you BOTH off.

It also gives them options for more skills.

Increase the speed you get up and MAYBE a skill that increases the damage you do when you hit other mechs. Not by a CRAZY amount, but being skilled in proper positioning for a ram would make sense. Deal some extra damage to them and a little less to yourself? Perhaps we have 3 new skills right there.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 27 March 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[FupDup]

PANZERBUNNY, on 27 March 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Collision is ESSENTIAL to force lights back into their role instead of zippy zappy warriors flying around without consequence.

Implying that they can't zippy zap from a slightly longer distance away.

Also, this game does little to reward actual scouting and in a typical match scouting only makes a difference for the initial engagement (i.e. tell your team that the enemy went tunnel, etc.). After that, everyone knows where the enemy is and no more scouting is needed...so what is a dedicated scout supposed to do at that point? The lack of in-game comms doesn't help matters because taking the time to type out enemy positions and crap while you're trying to run away and survive will end badly. You need your hands on WASD and your mouse hand rotating your torso to spread damage while running. The fact that all mechs on your team can share target info hurts a lot too (if only lights and Cicadas could do it, scouts might have more of a place).

Plus, just being small =/= automatic dedicated scouting role. Urbanmech, Panther, Mandrill, Adder, and the Hollander are some historical examples that I can think of off the top of my head. Not all light mechs were created for the singular purpose of pressing the "R" key.

Edited by FupDup, 27 March 2013 - 01:14 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

I wan't to see knockdowns return, but I think it needs to include much higher damage to the mech doing the ramming than the videos I've seen of it suggested. Dragon bowling? Sure, but that Dragon should be pretty near as beat up as the mech he was picking on, rather than being able to go after one mech after another.

[Vodrin Thales]

MajorLeeHung, on 02 November 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

Ima laugh at the rage when all the kids who joined after open beta and think there good with a light mech get face jacked when collisions go back in.


and suddenly.... ATLAS FOOT

QFT. Although I will have to unlearn a few bad habits I have picked up the last several months.

[Sturmforge]

Do not really care about knockdown because sadly it will be abused. I just want to see collision damage. Make people watch where they are going. None of this hey look my mech just passed right through yours.

[Sierra19]

PANZERBUNNY, on 27 March 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

It will also SLOW the game down. It will make people think more about their placements in regards to teammates instead of jamming and ramming through each other to get at the enemy.

An ***** trying to score that kill and squeeze past will knock you both down and that one enemy will finish you BOTH off.

It also gives them options for more skills.

Increase the speed you get up and MAYBE a skill that increases the damage you do when you hit other mechs. Not by a CRAZY amount, but being skilled in proper positioning for a ram would make sense. Deal some extra damage to them and a little less to yourself? Perhaps we have 3 new skills right there.

Controlled Impact: Decreases damage to your mech by 15% and increases damage to enemy mech by 15% for collisions/knockdowns.

Evasion: Decreases the damage from falling/collisions/knockdowns by 10%, and allows your knocked down mech to get up 10% faster.

As far as players being stupid, and tripping over themselves to get a kill, well, they deserve what they get. It's a TEAM game after all...

[Monkeystador]

Certainly a knockdown shouldnt happen all the time. Some momentum must be needed to do it. Collision damage would be nice in any case though. And mechs with arms could be able to stand up faster.

[Sephlock]

I'm kind of curious as to what they THINK the problem with knockdown was, because it seems to me, based on what they've said and how they tragically misperceived what was "wrong" with double heat sinks, what was wrong with machineguns and lbx, etc..... I'm kind of skeptical that they actually knew what the real problem was (the teleporting, which should be a relatively easy fix).

I have a sneaking suspicion that their "solution" will be to "fix" knockdown in the same way one "fixes" a dog or a cat.

[Iron Hand]

I would like to see knock down put back in the game. I would have it work differently than before though. Two mechs that was the same weight class or one lower, example heavy vs assault , can't knock each other over but will bring the mechs to a complete stop. Don't let mechs clip though each other. Two objects can't be in the same place at the same time law. If both mechs are moving under 40 KPH than no one gets knocked over no matter what weight class. Also put in some kind of 10 second rule where the mech that just got knocked over can't be knocked over again and again, this is to stop spamming. You could put in mech damage but the lighter mech would take more damage than a bigger mech, also have the more agile/ mech with arms get up faster. I think this would be an expectable way to reinstall knock downs.

[DirePhoenix]

Charge Attack: Activated ability. Instant acceleration to 100% Max Speed straight ahead for 5 seconds (15s cooldown). Cannot steer or make course correction changes while charging. Full collision damage to target (if the pilot makes contact with target) and 'mech (also takes damage if smashing into a solid object such as a building or cliff face). 'Mech is immobile for 2 seconds after charge attack ends.

Post-charge immobilization, charge length, cooldown, and damage mitigation can be altered via efficiencies.

Thoughts?

[von Pilsner]

I predict knockdowns will come back as a GXP unlockable, C-Bill purchasable module.

[Particle Man]

I still dont see how what we have now, a weird rubberbanding effect that makes no sense and has no warning or indication as to why its happening or from which direction, is more desireable and considered less buggy than collisions were before.

after they fixed dragon bowling it was far better than this bullship non-collision thing we have now.

Edited by Particle Man, 27 March 2013 - 03:09 PM.

[Taemien]

I don't think you all understand what you're asking for. I totally forgot about the Awesomes and Dragons that were unstoppable. You're bascally giving groups on TS another tool to totally decimate others with. Not that I disagree, I'll take anything that boosts my group's damage output.

I have no qualms about knocking over troublesome configs so they are never a threat while my buddies on TS blast the crap out of them. Lights aren't the only ones we'd do this too. Might even give us a reason to use Awesomes to do it. Max armor, max speed, and 3 or 4 Large Lasers will be devastating.

[Gaan Cathal]

PANZERBUNNY, on 27 March 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Apart from a few things, collision was fine before. The glitch getting up and Dragon bowling were the only issues.

Collision is ESSENTIAL to force lights back into their role instead of zippy zappy warriors flying around without consequence.

No, it wasn't. The optimal use of lights in a team was to slam straight into the opposing light at top speed as soon as possible so your team could nuke them. That is not good gameplay.

And Lights are in their role. They're zippy zappy warriors flying around with consequences. Plenty of people can take them out no problem, so your personal ******** is clearly not a representative situation to balance the game around.

Particle Man, on 27 March 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

I still dont see how what we have now, a weird rubberbanding effect that makes no sense and has no warning or indication as to why its happening or from which direction, is more desireable and considered less buggy than collisions were before.

A: Collisions are in
B: Viable gameplay trumps realism

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 27 March 2013 - 06:47 PM.

[Zerberus]

I`d actually rather see terrain collisions than mech collisions (both actually)... in the sense of a raven running at 150KM/H can and will pancake itself on a sheer mountainside, like it should be

[mekabuser]

I brought this up in ask the devs..
COllisions, dfa etc hopefully..
have been .
COMPLETELY reworked..

What we had before was really quite frankly horrible.. Even if there wasnt the warping etc..
It was ten steps back from mw4.

tbh,, I am going to be able to tell quite alot about the direction of this game when collisions are brought back..
If they cheese out, well then damn, they really dont understand combat, and giant robots and what actually gets the blood going.

If they do it great where its actually tactical, where you can actually feel the mass of our mechs, where the damage from collisions is implemented properly in conjunction with dfa.. Then , to me, the sky will be the limit..

Collisions to me are a cornerstone of mech combat..