21 replies to this topic

[Turbo Corvair]

Gonna keep this short.

I played MW2 a lot when it was new. Recently I installed MW4 to practice with my new HOTAS/Pedals setup and it wasn't too hard to get the hang of it again.

Then I installed and tried MWLL (living legends) and it has been a totally different story. With the Joystick setup I find the learning curve VERY steep. It does seem quite a bit easier with the mouse, but my whole reason for playing is to practice on my control layout to get a feel for it (avoid wall humping I hope LOL).

MWLL has a control layout much more similar to MWO's defaults, while the old MW series had the torso twist and steering controls reverse of MWLL and MWO.

I think this setup is a lot more difficult to master (at least with a joystick) and I'm wondering how others feel about this.

I am really hoping MWO is setup so that both configurations (MW(x) style and MWLL/MWO default style) are fully viable.

[The Cheese]

I think I read somewhere that the controls and key bindings will be fully customisable, although it may have been a daydream.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure that a new control scheme would constitute a steep learning curve. I'd call it more of an adjustment.

Edited by The Cheese, 10 April 2012 - 09:26 PM.

[Taelon Zero]

Customisable controls are common for PC games, I'd like to think they will do the same

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

The learning curve for MechWarrior games is pretty steep. Think of all the fundamental things you needed to master to just be a proficient 'mech pilot, nevermind a good one! How long did it take you? Honestly? Torso twisting, mastering the 'mech lab and the basics of all the weapons, heat management, accuracy / aim, throttle / weapon grouping, targeting... etc.

That's a lot of stuff to really know/understand to anyone that's new, never mind anything that could be considered advanced!


Edit: Oh, right. Once I got the basics down back in MW2/mercs, I started to learn more advanced things in MW3. At that point I was still using my mouse to aim, so naturally my piloting was not as fluid. Once I got into MW4:Veng, I switched over to a gamepad (I tried a joystick but I just favored using a dual-analog stick setup) and I noticed I had to relearn how to aim, but piloting became a breeze. Its not easy to switch from keyboard/mouse to a HOTAS/Joystick/gamepad, but I feel its worth it. You can always improve you're aim to compete with mouse users, but they will be a natural disadvantage when it comes to piloting.

Edited by mwhighlander, 10 April 2012 - 09:54 PM.

[LordDeathStrike]

mwo has a moveing targeting reticle for your arm weaponry and a center screen one for your torso weapons, this alone makes it control differently then all other mech games before. youll need to aim your arm cursor via 1 device or method, twist your torso via another and turn your mech by yet another for max dexterious mech aim control. standard hotas wont cut it unless it has pedals for twist, stick twist for steering, and moving the stick for reticle aiming.

[Turbo Corvair]

LordDeathStrike, on 10 April 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

mwo has a moveing targeting reticle for your arm weaponry and a center screen one for your torso weapons, this alone makes it control differently then all other mech games before. youll need to aim your arm cursor via 1 device or method, twist your torso via another and turn your mech by yet another for max dexterious mech aim control. standard hotas wont cut it unless it has pedals for twist, stick twist for steering, and moving the stick for reticle aiming.

Actually I don't think this is true exactly. Yes, there are two reticles as you describe, but I don't think you are going to be constantly controlling legs, torso, and arms all simultaneously.

If I'm not mistaken the two reticles will simply move independently of one another while you are turning etc. but will not be seperately controlled. There may be some kind of "free look" mode that would move the arms independently, but I don't think you are going to be driving the legs, twisting the torso, and aiming the arms all individually at the same time. That would just be insane and near impossible to control.

[The Cheese]

Turbo Corvair, on 10 April 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Actually I don't think this is true exactly. Yes, there are two reticles as you describe, but I don't think you are going to be constantly controlling legs, torso, and arms all simultaneously.

If I'm not mistaken the two reticles will simply move independently of one another while you are turning etc. but will not be seperately controlled. There may be some kind of "free look" mode that would move the arms independently, but I don't think you are going to be driving the legs, twisting the torso, and aiming the arms all individually at the same time. That would just be insane and near impossible to control.

I was under the same impression. The arms and torso reticles move together (well, the arms lead the torso, but they're not independent), and the stick twist controls the leg turning. I think I read somewhere (possibly another daydream) that the free-look mode will allow you to control the arms independent of the torso as long as you are free-looking.

I'm imagining that control scheme to be much like the previous MW games, with the addition of free-look to control the arms independently if you so desire.

[Mild Monkey]

Turbo Corvair, on 10 April 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Actually I don't think this is true exactly. Yes, there are two reticles as you describe, but I don't think you are going to be constantly controlling legs, torso, and arms all simultaneously.

If I'm not mistaken the two reticles will simply move independently of one another while you are turning etc. but will not be seperately controlled. There may be some kind of "free look" mode that would move the arms independently, but I don't think you are going to be driving the legs, twisting the torso, and aiming the arms all individually at the same time. That would just be insane and near impossible to control.

This is not entirely correct. There will be free look and when engaged, it will enable you to control your arms' weapons independently from the torso weapons. a really good pilot with a precise sense of timing might be able to hit two different moving targets using this possibility. But I also hope that the learning curve will be steep. This is a sim and I am looking forward to mastering all the different aspects.

[Zylo]

Turbo Corvair, on 10 April 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Actually I don't think this is true exactly. Yes, there are two reticles as you describe, but I don't think you are going to be constantly controlling legs, torso, and arms all simultaneously.

If I'm not mistaken the two reticles will simply move independently of one another while you are turning etc. but will not be seperately controlled. There may be some kind of "free look" mode that would move the arms independently, but I don't think you are going to be driving the legs, twisting the torso, and aiming the arms all individually at the same time. That would just be insane and near impossible to control.

I would actually like to try playing with such a system as an option, just think about the possiblities of being able to hit multiple enemy mechs at the same time which could be useful for scaring at least 1 enough that they may think all weapons are aimed at them. Use the joystick aiming similar to MW2 for the fixed torso weapons and use the additional directional control on the JS (that button that works like a gamepad direction control, I forget the name) to aim the arms at another target.

[CCC Dober]

Learning curve ... pfffah ... you want a challenge, try the X-series (i.e. X3:Reunion).

Quote

The Egosoft board is arguably the most noob-friendly forum on the whole Internet. Which is good, considering the games' near-vertical learning curve.

Source: http://tvtropes.org/...php/VideoGame/X

That right there says it all. MW games are easy in comparison, no kidding.

[Omigir]

Living legends is not as polished as MW:O will be. Easier to set up your controlls the way you want. Or so I assume.

Because LL is a mod it does not have that refined polish, no offense, its great for what it is but still, will never be as smooth as a published game.

[Snotling]

I think it really depends on what other games you are playing, and what your focus is on.

For me aiming was always mouse, its just the device with the most precision. Dont let people tell you otherwise, or just try to play SC2 or CS with a joystick . (Another example, once they tried crossover multiplayer console-pc in some shooter, they even gave the consolyguys some autoaim, but they got crushed non the less. The reason you can get away with a joystick or a gamepad in mechwarrior games, is just that you shoot at big relatively slow targets, that mostly move in a very predictable way) Then i use joystick or keyboard for the mech itself.

A lot of people use a joystick for torso/aim because they have more fun this way, i think it feels more like really sitting in a mech for them. And thats totally fine. But they have to sacrifice some accuracy.

[Troma Lorane]

CCC_Dober, on 11 April 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

Learning curve ... pfffah ... you want a challenge, try the X-series (i.e. X3:Reunion).

Source: http://tvtropes.org/...php/VideoGame/X

That right there says it all. MW games are easy in comparison, no kidding.

agreed x3 is a pain just like EVE online lots to know and will likely never know it all.

[LordDeathStrike]

i have a razor naga with 12 buttons on the side for the thumb, and 5 on top + a scroll wheel, and its 5600 dpi, ima gonna snipe you in my atlas with a guass rifle large lasers and lrms soooo bad (with the 7x scout zoom in module of course so i can go passive and find you with my eyes muahahahaha).

of course on city maps ill just drop down to having 2 srm 6 a ac 20 and some med pulse lasers with enough heat sinks to keep fireing ma lasers pew pew, with magnetic sight so you cant hide round no stinkin corners.

this games gonna be a hoot gents.

[Barbaric Soul]

Snotling, on 11 April 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

I think it really depends on what other games you are playing, and what your focus is on.

For me aiming was always mouse, its just the device with the most precision. Dont let people tell you otherwise, or just try to play SC2 or CS with a joystick . (Another example, once they tried crossover multiplayer console-pc in some shooter, they even gave the consolyguys some autoaim, but they got crushed non the less. The reason you can get away with a joystick or a gamepad in mechwarrior games, is just that you shoot at big relatively slow targets, that mostly move in a very predictable way) Then i use joystick or keyboard for the mech itself.

A lot of people use a joystick for torso/aim because they have more fun this way, i think it feels more like really sitting in a mech for them. And thats totally fine. But they have to sacrifice some accuracy.

For most FPS games, like SC2 and CS, as well as BF3 and the CoD series, I agree with you that the mouse/KB combo will win every day. But I have to disagree with you when it comes to the previous MW games, and if the previous games are to be followed by MWO,MWO will be the same. In MW4 and MW3, I only used a joystick(saitek x35/36, x45, and now x52). Playing with a stick in those games, I can pretty much pick out what pixel I want to hit on my oponents mech(24 inch 1920*1200 resolution monitor helps also). I have beaten many mouse/kb players in MW games using a joystick. Some people claimed in MW4, while sniping, the mouse/kb combo is better, but when I tried it, I didn't like it and found I was better sniping with the stick.

IMHO, while a kb/mouse may give better control for your reticle, the joystick will give better overall control of your mech, which is more important than just reticle control.

[3Xtr3m3]

I personally have never owned a HOTAS setup. Money being the main impediment. Maybe MWO can have a Solaris tournament with a HOTAS as a Grand Prize. Probably not, but worth a try to suggest it.
That being said, I have long practice with mouse/kb, and look forward to taking down more than a few HOTAS players.

[Snotling]

Barbaric Soul, on 11 April 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

IMHO, while a kb/mouse may give better control for your reticle, the joystick will give better overall control of your mech, which is more important than just reticle control.

thats why reticle with mouse and mech with joystick is so good

but we will se when the game is out

[CCC Dober]

You can also try Mouse+JS/+pedals and see if that works better for you.
Mouse has arguably the best reaction time and pixel precision, JS/+pedals make it much easier to steer the Mech.

Best of both worlds. Not exactly cheap, but very effective.

[Adridos]

Double the EVE one.



But really, MW isn't that hard.

[Siilk]

Turbo Corvair, on 10 April 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

Then I installed and tried MWLL (living legends) and it has been a totally different story. With the Joystick setup I find the learning curve VERY steep. It does seem quite a bit easier with the mouse, but my whole reason for playing is to practice on my control layout to get a feel for it (avoid wall humping I hope LOL).

MWLL has a control layout much more similar to MWO's defaults, while the old MW series had the torso twist and steering controls reverse of MWLL and MWO.

I think this setup is a lot more difficult to master (at least with a joystick) and I'm wondering how others feel about this.

I think it's more of adapting to new control style rather than anything else. I remember having some troubles with controls in the beginning of my MWLL "career", but it was only took me a week or two to get used to new control style. After that I had been playing a lot of MWLL during last 3 years and when I tried a (then new) Mektek's free release of MW4 I had hard time playing it as controls and general behaviour of a mech felt completely alien to me. Readapting to MW2 was a bit easier(mainly because of it's slower gameplay I guess) while Solaris Assault Tech is still beyond me, control-wise. The point is, it's all about what you are used to. MWLL controls are not worse(they are highly customisable, thanks to a sophisticated action mapping tool) than MW4's or MW3's, they are just different. MWO would be, again, something new so I assume it would be a safe guess that anyone of us would have to spend a week or two getting used to it. BTW, I'm not even sure what MWO controls would be like. We had no hard info on that part and dual reticle and slow convergence are completely new to both canon MW and MWLL.