25 replies to this topic

[Landsharkk]

I'll try and keep this short and simple (EDIT: Ok, didn't end up that short).

Match results and CB gains don't reflect your involvement with the match. They also don't reflect your skill or lack of skill.

The reason we have (Exploit) as a tactic is because it's the most profitable tactic. The reason why having one team surrender immediately and then the other team rush to base camp being more profitable is because the shorter the match the more CB you make per minute, regardless of your damage, kills and salvage if you had fought to the death.

This leads me to the conclusion that the match results/gains need a HUGE overhaul. The problems above are results of a bigger issue, not the issue itself. Suicide rushing should be a viable tactic if you want to, not a bannable offense.


PGI should take the scoring system of Battlefield 3.

Here's how I would help 'fix' the overall issue (not exactly like BF3, but you get the idea - reward for team play).

1) Reduce the loss/win match CB income dramatically, to less than half of what it is now.

2) Reward players for staying in close proximity of each other

3) Reward players for firing on targets that other players have targeted

4) Reward players when their AMS or their own mech (standing in the way of) prevents missiles from reaching a teammate

5) Reward players for damaging/destroying a mech that attacking their teammate.

6) Reward players for standing inside the enemy base. Give extra rewards when more teammates join the base cap.

7) Reward players for being top damage player of their team.

8) Reward players for being top kills of their team.

9) Reward players for being top assists of their team.

10) If a player dies right away, make sure they get at least 'some' income bonus(enough to cover their repair/rearm) so that they break even, maybe slightly above breaking even. Never allow a player to lose money on a bad match, but don't reward them for it either. (EDIT: The advantage to a player that dies quickly should be that they can immediately start a new match and try again. It should NOT be that they make a enough money on a loss to be profitable).

11) (already in the game) Continue to reward players for destroying components of the enemy mechs

12) (already in the game) Continue to reward players for salvage at the end of a match.

13) Reward players for staying in the match the whole time (even if they are dead and just spectating), but don't punish those who 'quit match' after they are dead either.

14) Reward players for landing extremely long-range shots with different weapons or beyond the weapon range.

etc, etc.


I could go on, but maybe some of you can think up of more player rewards they'd like to see in the game?


The reason I think this would help: You no longer get rewarded for making the matches as short as possible (eliminates the desire to "exploit"). You now get rewarded for 'playing' the game/match. It also means you are rewarded for your personal playstyle.
.
Do you like being an LRM boat? You get a bonus for that.

Do you like staying close to your teammates? You get a bonus for that.

Do you like to pick off enemy arms/legs/etc? You get a bonus for that.

Do you like to base cap? You get a bonus for that.

(EDIT: Are you not that good of a player? Stay close to your team and target enemies when you see them. You get a bonus for that!)


Do you believe this would encourage people to play a match to its full length?

What other ideas can you come up with?

(EDIT: I wanted to add this so that there's no confusion. I'm not stating that the current CB Amount for rewards is wrong. I just think that getting CB 60,000 for a loss shouldn't be rewarded just because you lost. You should be given CB 60,000 because you TRIED to win - through the 'reward of playing' list I've made above.)

Edited by Landsharkk, 03 November 2012 - 04:04 PM.

[Lugh]

Sorry I know learning a new reward system is sooooo hard , but MWO needs it's own core rewards, and core game play elements, and community game play elements done first.

[Landsharkk]

Lugh, on 03 November 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

Sorry I know learning a new reward system is sooooo hard , but MWO needs it's own core rewards, and core game play elements, and community game play elements done first.

I don't think you understood anything about my post. Did you honestly read the whole thing?

[IQwrassler]

I haven't played BF3, but I agree with many of your suggestions.

I would especially like to see most damage/ most assist awards (like medals or some such), that can be kept track of over time. It would be alot less frustrating to lose 8-0 consistently, when you get recognition for playing well despite the loss.

It would also make statistics reflect player skill more, when players are credited for participating in battle in many of the ways you suggest.

I think it would benefit the game more to reward players who participate in a multitude of role-specific actions in the battle, rather than just spawning into the battle and being rewarding arbitrarily. If you don't do any damage, you might as well not have been in the battle at all, UNLESS you spot targets, capture the base, etc. which would have their corresponding awards.

MW:O already credits players with xp and cbills for performing many of these actions, but I think there is a distinction between xp/cbill bonuses and awards/achievements post-game.

There is currently a justified issue that many players have, losing on a consistent basis when PUGging. This would alleviate frustration from skilled players who pay statistically from afks/disconnets/poor teammates.

Edited by IQwrassler, 03 November 2012 - 10:52 AM.

[JakeTehPwner]

I completely agree with this and I have been thinking about it since I started playing. My idea was much more simple though. Bigger and heavier mechs obviously have the ability to output much more damage, so I thought that making damage CB reward equal to 50x or 60x your damage seems appropriate. Lowering win CB amount to 50k and loses to 25k seems appropriate.

Assaults/Heavy Cats have higher rearm/repair costs and dealing damage should make up for it.

This fixes suicide trial players by rewarding them next to nothing.

Increasing salvage/other bonuses also seems appropriate.

Edited by JakeTehPwner, 03 November 2012 - 10:45 AM.

[von Pilsner]

Landsharkk, on 03 November 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

2) Reward players for staying in close proximity of each other

Snipers and scouts often are not 'with the team'. This would limit playstyle and not enhance it.

[Bogus]

Game definitely needs more line-item bonuses, and they should be more relevant since right now there's not a huge pay difference between being the team's roaring lion and AFKing in base.

[Landsharkk]

von Pilsner, on 03 November 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Snipers and scouts often are not 'with the team'. This would limit playstyle and not enhance it.

I've got you covered:

Quote

14) Reward players for landing extremely long-range shots with different weapons or beyond the weapon range.

Or can you think of another reward that would fit that situation?

Those who stay close to teammates get a reward. Those who snipe get a reward. Sometimes those rewards overlap, sometimes they don't. But there's rewards for both playstyles in the list above.

[Vlad Ward]

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1324198

[Keifomofutu]

I agree with the idea in general. If you reward the behavior you want to see then that is how players will end up behaving. Currently anyone who can do grade 3 math knows that the most rewarding behavior is trial mech suicide by rushing entire enemy team. Even after they start locking them in games you still have 4 mechs to suicide in a row before you have to stop.

And you've got even odds that the first will be unlocked by the time your last trial mech dies.

[Landsharkk]

Vlad Ward, on 03 November 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1324198

I understand some of the rewards already exist. However, I don't think PGI has gone far enough with the reward system. This is why we have suicide rushing or the fact that the shorter the match the more CB per minute you gain. It's a problem that needs address and I believe my suggestions above (as a start) would greatly improve MWO along with fixing some of the underlying issues.

With my ideas above, you could keep suicide rushing as a tactic, because you'd no longer be rewarded for it. Instead, you would be encouraged to participate in the match as long as possible.

Edited by Landsharkk, 03 November 2012 - 11:02 AM.

[Ravensol]

the curent system is fine just reduce a few things and increase others. cbill reward for w/l reduced to 20k/10k. kills bumped to 20k assists 20k spotting 20k base capture 80k componet destruction 5000 damage done bumped up to 50x's. Doing this would promote gameplay and discurage suiciding buy making it not worth doing. Take my normal match that i win start 20k for win 1kill (20k) 4assists (80k) 2 spots(40k) 6 comp destruct(30k) 400 damage (20k) that is 210k for a win that you participated in say you didn't win but still did the same of everything else it's 200k this would really promote gameplay over trying to cheat the system and would probably end up making matches alot better.

[Vlad Ward]

Landsharkk, on 03 November 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

I understand some of the rewards already exist. However, I don't think PGI has gone far enough with the reward system. This is why we have suicide rushing or the fact that the shorter the match the more CB per minute you gain. It's a problem that needs address and I believe my suggestions above (as a start) would greatly improve MWO along with fixing some of the underlying issues.

With my ideas above, you could keep suicide rushing as a tactic, because you'd no longer be rewarded for it. Instead, you would be encouraged to participate in the match as long as possible.

Many of your suggestions do not resonate well with the spirit of Mechwarrior.

Rewards for blowing off limbs? In-Universe, I'd shoot any pilot careless and wasteful enough to slag good tech, if he didn't die of shame first.

The same applies for most of the things you're offering rewards for. I have no interest in playing a game that rewards people for doing anything and everything regardless of how little sense it makes.

[Landsharkk]

Vlad Ward, on 03 November 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

Many of your suggestions do not resonate well with the spirit of Mechwarrior.

Rewards for blowing off limbs? In-Universe, I'd shoot any pilot careless and wasteful enough to slag good tech, if he didn't die of shame first.

The same applies for most of the things you're offering rewards for. I have no interest in playing a game that rewards people for doing anything and everything regardless of how little sense it makes.

I understand your point. But of course my list above are just ideas. There would need to be a lot of balancing done if they implemented a list of rewards like the one above.

MWO is a new kind of mechwarrior game, it's not a singleplayer or 1 vs 1 experience. Players should be rewarded for trying to win the match, and that includes removing limbs, etc. You could simply give a bigger CB reward for salvage than for removing limbs, etc to encourage players to go for bigger salvage, but at the same time giving a reward for when they don't.


Also, I'm not stating that the current CB Amount for rewards is wrong. I just think that getting CB 60,000 for a loss shouldn't be rewarded just because you lost. You should be given CB 60,000 because you TRIED to win - through the 'reward of playing' list I've made above.

[Allekatrase]

I think you should do this and combine it with making the trial mechs less terrible. My idea for making trial mechs less terrible is to let the loadouts on them be customized. By making the trial mechs less terrible and or customizeable you make them more interesting/tolerable to play with. More details here: http://mwomercs.com/...le-trial-mechs/

All good ideas though. Rewards definitely need to be more about performance and less about just being in a match.

Edited by Allekatrase, 03 November 2012 - 11:19 AM.

[Vlad Ward]

As the game stands now, it's extremely difficult to tell the difference between a new/bad player who tried to win and an old/good player who just ran into a wall of fire to grind up c-bills.

Most new/bad players will never even hit the targets in front of them, if they aren't torn to shreds by incoming fire before they see the enemy.

While I would personally not mind going flat broke and getting a big "Game Over" screen if I suck (a la MW2: Mercs), I feel like the 60k loss reward is one of very, very few important concessions to a modern sect of gamers who feel like they should be rewarded with some progress just for putting time into the game.

And who can blame them, when nearly every other big name game does this for them?

Edited by Vlad Ward, 03 November 2012 - 11:22 AM.

[RAM]

Landsharkk, on 03 November 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

10) If a player dies right away, make sure they get at least 'some' income bonus(enough to cover their repair/rearm) so that they break even, maybe slightly above breaking even. Never allow a player to lose money on a bad match, but don't reward them for it either. (EDIT: The advantage to a player that dies quickly should be that they can immediately start a new match and try again. It should NOT be that they make a enough money on a loss to be profitable).

Like your overall concept, but I have to disagree with you here on #10. There simply must be the possibility for players to lose money.


RAM
ELH

[Landsharkk]

RAM, on 03 November 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Like your overall concept, but I have to disagree with you here on #10. There simply must be the possibility for players to lose money.


RAM
ELH

Money sinks are good, I agree. Overall my point was that we shouldn't be rewarding players who die quickly with CB like we do now. I was thinking a 'breaking even' would be good enough, so that those who are learning the game aren't going backwards financially, but still feel the financial pain of not gaining anything.

[Bogus]

I see the argument for players losing money "sometimes", but I don't feel we really have a sufficiently robust baseline in place that this wouldn't end in epic fail. Yeah, there's trials, but half of a MW game is owning and tinkering with mechs and disincentivizing people from owning and tinkering with mechs is stupid and dangerous especially with the more FPSy Hawken just around the corner. It's a bit gamey but perhaps something we could consider is eliminating or almost eliminating the base payouts but make "tier 1" equipment--stuff other than ER/gauss/streak/pulse/upgrades--free to repair but ammo still cost money. That way a simple low-end mech turns out a lot like a trial mech does now, but people feel some ownership and we sidestep the risk of players getting screwed for trying to do it right. This would also make upgrades more approachable.

[Shrinkmaster]

i support the suggestions from landsharkk