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Bring Back Knockdown


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#1 Sulf

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:18 PM

The removal of knockdown was a big game changer for MW:O. Though I feel they made the right choice in taking it out, I think they should (and imagine they will) bring it back after some work.

At the moment, Lights are on par with Assaults and Heavies at close range. This isn't a bad thing. You should be able to fight any other mech and potentially win if you take the right tactics and you're a good enough shot. Otherwise why play anything except an Atlas?

Knockdown as it was before was anything larger than you could knock you over if going reasonably fast or if you ran into them. Once you fell you lay there for a second and then stood up slowly. This was a death sentence for any light mech.

Instead of this, let me suggest three potential stages of any collision that might or might not lead to a knockdown.

The Wobble: A minor clipping that may slow you slightly, will jostle your torso and arms and may bounce you slightly in another direction, but will not drop you. At most it will spin you about.

The Stumble: A harder collision but not direct which causes you to drop to one knee, lose momentum but recover quickly.

The Knockdown: Only capable by larger mechs, with direct hits, at high speeds. You will fall, though the speed you get back up is increased, especially for smaller mechs and for mechs with jump jets. A mech with jumpjets would get a bonus for standing up and the jets would automatically kick in to assist. (possible only if you're on your back)

All in all, this should add a nice feel too gameplay and give larger mechs chance against the quick and the agile without totally compromising light mech tactics.


Collisions: Unlikely the previous knockdowns this also effects collisions with buildings, structures, and landscape. Right now you can accelerate right into a wall and keep pushing without much deterrent. If you run full on into a wall something should happen. Knocking yourself down, killing your engines, or a lot of armor damage, seems just too harsh though.

Instead simply have it bounce you. Some deceleration depending on angle and speed, but mostly bounce you away according to angle. Maybe a dead stop if you keep running directly into a wall for a period.

Note that slower mechs or larger would also behave like this when colliding with each other. An Atlas and a Dragon can run straight at each other but the result will be some armor damage and reverse momentum rather then a knockdown or 'pressing'/clipping effect.

This bounce effect applies to light mechs too, and only in extreme circumstances will a lightmech knock over it's fellow.

Besides that I'd like to see some effects on the objects that I hit. I'm not asking for actual building damage. You guys have your plates full. Though I would like to see chunks of temporary generated debris and a small cloud of rock particles/sparks.

Edited by Brickyard, 03 November 2012 - 10:05 PM.


#2 Nikohki

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 05:26 PM

I'm no computer programming guru, but I'm willing to bet that the Unreal engine and whatever physics middle-ware that is used in MWO should be able to simulate simple newtonian physics. I hope they add the falling back in, because I don't see a reason why reckless pilots shouldn't be disciplined. If anything it'll make for better pilots who practice driving.
Also may I add that shots be calculated as well. I don't see why a 200cm autocannon round to the face of a commando or jenner shouldn't have a chance to knock its *** over. AC20 = 7shots/ton which is about 143kg per round. Assuming half of that is casing and powder, that's about 72kg per slug. Assuming a muzzle velocity of about 1500 m/s (taken from the 120mm M256 Rheinmetall gun of an Abrams tank cuz there's really no real world example) that's = 81MJ of energy. Assuming inelastic collision where all energy is transferred to the mech, the energy is enough to push a 20ton commando back at 90m/s. I'm sure the gyro plus the large mass moment of inertia of a mech will resist it, but come on... 81MJ of energy is roughly equiv. to about 20kilos of TNT.

#3 Sulf

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 05:33 PM

View PostNikohki, on 03 November 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

I'm no computer programming guru, but I'm willing to bet that the Unreal engine and whatever physics middle-ware that is used in MWO should be able to simulate simple newtonian physics. I hope they add the falling back in, because I don't see a reason why reckless pilots shouldn't be disciplined. If anything it'll make for better pilots who practice driving.
Also may I add that shots be calculated as well. I don't see why a 200cm autocannon round to the face of a commando or jenner shouldn't have a chance to knock its *** over. AC20 = 7shots/ton which is about 143kg per round. Assuming half of that is casing and powder, that's about 72kg per slug. Assuming a muzzle velocity of about 1500 m/s (taken from the 120mm M256 Rheinmetall gun of an Abrams tank cuz there's really no real world example) that's = 81MJ of energy. Assuming inelastic collision where all energy is transferred to the mech, the energy is enough to push a 20ton commando back at 90m/s. I'm sure the gyro plus the large mass moment of inertia of a mech will resist it, but come on... 81MJ of energy is roughly equiv. to about 20kilos of TNT.


If you've ever delivered an AC/20 killing shot on a light or medium mech you'll know that they have pretty decent physics, though for the most part they have them turned off while you're alive. Hopefully that will change.

#4 Eraed

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 09:50 AM

I like it. Seems a bit complex but it's also nicely balanced. Not a game breaker.

#5 Sandpit

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 09:52 AM

You do realize they have posted about this and removed it temporarily so they can fix it right?

#6 Sulf

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 09:55 AM

View PostSandpit, on 04 November 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

You do realize they have posted about this and removed it temporarily so they can fix it right?


I do. How and when they fix it is yet to be seen though.

#7 Grimmenstein

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:45 PM

View PostNikohki, on 03 November 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

I'm no computer programming guru, but I'm willing to bet that the Unreal engine and whatever physics middle-ware that is used in MWO should be able to simulate simple newtonian physics. I hope they add the falling back in, because I don't see a reason why reckless pilots shouldn't be disciplined. If anything it'll make for better pilots who practice driving.
Also may I add that shots be calculated as well. I don't see why a 200cm autocannon round to the face of a commando or jenner shouldn't have a chance to knock its *** over. AC20 = 7shots/ton which is about 143kg per round. Assuming half of that is casing and powder, that's about 72kg per slug. Assuming a muzzle velocity of about 1500 m/s (taken from the 120mm M256 Rheinmetall gun of an Abrams tank cuz there's really no real world example) that's = 81MJ of energy. Assuming inelastic collision where all energy is transferred to the mech, the energy is enough to push a 20ton commando back at 90m/s. I'm sure the gyro plus the large mass moment of inertia of a mech will resist it, but come on... 81MJ of energy is roughly equiv. to about 20kilos of TNT.

Impact inertia transfer would be great. It would also justify the Heavy Gyro, a piece of equipment built specifically to withstand the greater impact.

#8 no coast punk

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:55 PM

Bring back weapon knockdowns too. In past games, there was nothing more satisfying than planting an AC/20 round into a scout mech, and watching the thing bounce all head over teakettle for a few dozen feet.

#9 DegeneratePervert

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:22 AM

They're bringing this back after some work. It was pretty broken before.

#10 TB Freelancer

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:21 PM

View Postno coast punk, on 04 November 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

Bring back weapon knockdowns too. In past games, there was nothing more satisfying than planting an AC/20 round into a scout mech, and watching the thing bounce all head over teakettle for a few dozen feet.


I only started paying attention to the game not long before open beta...despite dropping $120 on last spring/summer (I honestly can't remember)....

...anyway. Yeah, mechs if they get hit by the right amount of mass, should be knocked on their behinds, period....

...I really don't care if its a death sentence to a light/medium trying to brawl with an assault...

...since I've been playing the game, it seems that most heavily damaged brawlers will run straight at you whether its a light or bigger....

...and while we're at it. What the hell happened to the major explosion when a mech blew to kingdom come? EDIT: Running in close to an enemy was an MW4 tactic hoping your death would take out an enemy mech...but in this game dying just means that you die...no big explosion....

...I really miss that.

Edited by TB Freelancer, 27 November 2012 - 06:22 PM.


#11 Hammer RLG

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:58 PM

splash damage from *whatever* would be nice to have.

please bring knockdown and collisions back soon. it is one way the heavier mechs can actually fight back against a light.





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