293 replies to this topic

[Shadosun]

I agree that there are many ways to avoid the missiles and reach the enemy team. Cover is a big point, but another is their spotter. They're seeing you somehow, kill that scout that's running around you helping all of the LRM boats. When I've been in a match against a LRM heavy team one of our scouts has messed with their scout so either A: their scout can't focus on locking up one of the non scout mechs or B: their scout dies and now it's easier for us to move forward and stomp them close range. Just some friendly suggestions

Edited by Shadosun, 04 November 2012 - 07:27 AM.

[Jack Corvus]

Have not died to LRM fire in an extremely long time. I've died to them no more than thrice since open beta and in all but one case it was only because I was the last man alive and you can't have cover on every single side of you, and that's not an exaggeration. To me they are just fine. LRMs stop being effective as soon as you choose to fight from a location with cover appropriate to the frame of your mech, and do not allow yourself to be baited out into the open. Right now new players are suffering a lot, but the solution to beating them is something every single pilot has, and that's their own battlefield awareness. Never chase bait. Ever. Call for help. Ask others to shoot it down. But don't chase it.

[Mazgazine1]

I find its very easy to avoid the LRMS, just don't stand there in the open....

I have not been killed by LRMS in a long time, I also stopped using the Trial Awesome, being even a little faster helps avoid the big rain of LRMs.

Getting a light mech with AMS to assist is also nice.

[RayzerEdge]

I know its hard in PUGS...got it. And certainly I am probably rehashing a lot of what is covered above but here goes

I almost never pug, I run with the Kell Hounds (shadow hounds) just to get that out in the open right away. When we drop we usually have 1 support missle boat and optimally we have a second that is also a brawler/boat so they can close when they run out of missles. Our strat every time is to solid lock assaults and mediums and FF to take people out quickly to reduce the amount of enemy mechs. Plain and simple. There are pleanty of ways to reduce the efficency of our LRM's.

First and foremost....stay in areas behind cover. DONT expose yourself alone or at all for that matter. If you are telegraphing yourself you are going to die. Generally our scouts are running circles around you and you are too far away from anyone to get them off of you. Stay with your support brawlers so they can kill the guys we have lighting you up for our MBs. Additionally, your MB can be targeting the guys lighting you up. Dont be afraid to close the distance on the MB's. Use cover and get close to them and kill them. Nothing says you have to keep far away and hope they start shooting elsewhere.

Get AMS. or stay near a teammate with AMS.

Anyway..hope this is some help...just some ramblings on a sunday morning.

[Noth]

RayzerEdge, on 04 November 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

I know its hard in PUGS...got it. And certainly I am probably rehashing a lot of what is covered above but here goes

I almost never pug, I run with the Kell Hounds (shadow hounds) just to get that out in the open right away. When we drop we usually have 1 support missle boat and optimally we have a second that is also a brawler/boat so they can close when they run out of missles. Our strat every time is to solid lock assaults and mediums and FF to take people out quickly to reduce the amount of enemy mechs. Plain and simple. There are pleanty of ways to reduce the efficency of our LRM's.

First and foremost....stay in areas behind cover. DONT expose yourself alone or at all for that matter. If you are telegraphing yourself you are going to die. Generally our scouts are running circles around you and you are too far away from anyone to get them off of you. Stay with your support brawlers so they can kill the guys we have lighting you up for our MBs. Additionally, your MB can be targeting the guys lighting you up. Dont be afraid to close the distance on the MB's. Use cover and get close to them and kill them. Nothing says you have to keep far away and hope they start shooting elsewhere.

Get AMS. or stay near a teammate with AMS.

Anyway..hope this is some help...just some ramblings on a sunday morning.

Again, this the the LRMs dictating the battlefield. Back when LRMs were weaker yet still deadly or now if there is a lack of LRMs you get far more strategies that can work and you can change them up easily. Currently with LRMs, it's sit on your butt behind cover hoping their spotters are dumb enough to get in close and try and fight instead of leading you out of your cover. Oh or running lights and everyone having AMS. This leads to stale gameplay and is something most games attempting to have balance want to avoid.

[RayzerEdge]

We dont have issues working together to take down the opposing team when they have MB. Fire support is supposed to be powerful. Lets compare for a second how effective fire support is in the real world. You are basically screwed if you get artillary inbound on you right? Maybe thats the point.

I dont disagree however that it would be disadvantagous for unorganized groups. But, this game is being geard toward team play and not solo...it is what it is. Balance cant be achieved with every mech...then there wouldnt be much point in having a variety of mechs to choose from minus the asthetics of each chassis. There are pros and cons to each type of build and certainly the range limitations of LRMs seems like balance irt that.

[Kaboodle]

Well, for all of LRM being FOTM, DHS is not part of it. LRM boats don't use DHS, we need the crits for ammo. Regardless. it's mostly FOTM because it's easy to mount in large numbers, and easy to keep cool, not particularly because it's "easier". It's simply just better. Instead of Nerfing LRMs, lets look at buffing other weapons to make them desirable on the battlefield. PPCs and Large Lasers being utterly worthless, means your long range choices are either LRMs, or Gauss. Gauss is all well and good, but can't be mounted in the numbers LRMs can, nor deal with lag-armor jenners as easily (Though with the netcode rollback on the 6th, might be fixed). If only we had real DHS...Oh wait, we won't. So you're going to continue to see LRM boats since it's the only long range weapon that can be kept cool.

[Noth]

RayzerEdge, on 04 November 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

We dont have issues working together to take down the opposing team when they have MB. Fire support is supposed to be powerful. Lets compare for a second how effective fire support is in the real world. You are basically screwed if you get artillary inbound on you right? Maybe thats the point.

I dont disagree however that it would be disadvantagous for unorganized groups. But, this game is being geard toward team play and not solo...it is what it is. Balance cant be achieved with every mech...then there wouldnt be much point in having a variety of mechs to choose from minus the asthetics of each chassis. There are pros and cons to each type of build and certainly the range limitations of LRMs seems like balance irt that.

This is a game. Look at WoTs fire support. The arty there can kill in one shot, it however is extremely slow in refiring, and requires skill in aiming even when the target is spotted. It makes a very powerful unit not dictate the battle. It's a hell of a lot more balanced than LRMs despite being able to one shot tanks and fire blindly.

[hanitora]

Noth, on 04 November 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

This is a game. Look at WoTs fire support. The arty there can kill in one shot, it however is extremely slow in refiring, and requires skill in aiming even when the target is spotted. It makes a very powerful unit not dictate the battle. It's a hell of a lot more balanced than LRMs despite being able to one shot tanks and fire blindly.

I am sorry but just no. I played WoT, artillery in particular and there is nothing skillful about it. Nor balanced. That game has joke of a balance, or hell, even joke of a balance is implying it has some which it doesn't.

[Stunner]

Noth, on 04 November 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

I rarely sit in the open, ye most of my deaths come directly or indirectly (chewing me up so bad I'm useless when I confront something other than a LRM mech. I pop me head out to snipe and I get arain of LRMs on my head. I move back into cover and powerdown, most the missiles still track to me and hit me. Missiles often go straight through cover and I've even seen them do 90 degree turns around corners.

I chase the light that is lighting up my team mates, he leads me into the open where I get torn to shreds my LRMs. If I don't chase into the open he gets near free reign to light up me and my team mates.

LRMs are simply OP at the moment. They take relatively little skill to use (seriously a guasscat takes more skill to use) and dictate the strategy of the battlefield. That is poor balance.

I was playing my LRM Cat yesterday and I was able to dodge other players missles by using cover. Only a few would hit me if at all.

As for LRM's needing less skill than a Guassapult that's just untrue. An LRM boat requires a teammate to lock on so he can fire at the target. The guassapult can fire at anyone he can see. If you are standing out in the open and the LRM boat can see you directly then you aren't playing the game right.

[wanderer]

Noth, on 04 November 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

I rarely sit in the open, ye most of my deaths come directly or indirectly (chewing me up so bad I'm useless when I confront something other than a LRM mech. I pop me head out to snipe and I get arain of LRMs on my head. I move back into cover and powerdown, most the missiles still track to me and hit me. Missiles often go straight through cover and I've even seen them do 90 degree turns around corners.

Those 90 degree turns are actually a trick that takes rather nice timing to do (hey, LRM skills!).

Lock a target. Fire. Swap to another target (breaking lock on the first one) and the missiles will now go to the last spot your target was, as tracking is interrupted.

Relock on the original one before impact at precisely the right time and the missiles resume tracking- which can result in those right-angle turns you just mentioned. Try it sometime, not as easymode as you might think.

Now, cover not working? That's the devs f-ing up the map, not LRMs being broken. Those chunks of "cover" don't even always stop DIRECT fire from stuff like Gauss or PPCs, though you don't see it as often given the angles in question- but I've fired my large lasers from a high point on River, "hit" the building and ended up damaging the target behind it. And I agree- it needs fixing, it makes LRMs better than intended. Cover needs to work properly.

Quote

I chase the light that is lighting up my team mates, he leads me into the open where I get torn to shreds my LRMs. If I don't chase into the open he gets near free reign to light up me and my team mates.

So you're complaining about the light pilot being smart enough to lure you out of cover and getting you killed, right? Sounds like a tactic as old as Counterstrike- we'd get people to chase someone with a light weapon out of cover and then riddle them with sniper fire or sheer weight of fire. It's the same trick that light pilots use to sucker people into chasing them into any bad situation.

OMG, I MUST KILL THE SCOUT NOW! *charge*

WHY AM I DEAD, THE HARD TO SHOOT SCOUT DODGED MY FIRE WHILE THE REST OF HIS TEAM SHOT ME, OP!

Quote

LRMs are simply OP at the moment. They take relatively little skill to use (seriously a guasscat takes more skill to use) and dictate the strategy of the battlefield. That is poor balance.

What's amusing is from the teams I play against, they also take little skill to counter- but just like people ignore Gausscats and get sniped, people ignore LRMs being a threat and get smoked.

[Noth]

hanitora, on 04 November 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

I am sorry but just no. I played WoT, artillery in particular and there is nothing skillful about it. Nor balanced. That game has joke of a balance, or hell, even joke of a balance is implying it has some which it doesn't.

Wait it takes no skill to have to lead a target, know common hiding spots, know the angle of your shot, and even make proper estimtaions for when to and where to fire when compared to a the LRMs where you get a lock, and fire and get the shots to home in on the target?

Yes arty in WoT is a ton more skill based than LRMs and that allowed multiple way to counter them. LRMs have at most two ways to counter them, one of which requires specific builds before you even get in the match.

[Denno]

My only gripe about LRMS is what many others have mentioned: Much of the "cover" is useless, even giant buildings and tall rock formations. LRMS can sail right through much of it.

[Stunner]

Noth, on 04 November 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

Again, this the the LRMs dictating the battlefield. Back when LRMs were weaker yet still deadly or now if there is a lack of LRMs you get far more strategies that can work and you can change them up easily. Currently with LRMs, it's sit on your butt behind cover hoping their spotters are dumb enough to get in close and try and fight instead of leading you out of your cover. Oh or running lights and everyone having AMS. This leads to stale gameplay and is something most games attempting to have balance want to avoid.

It sounds like to me the game actually has strategy now. Different maps have different tactics but there is no reason to stay at your base and wait out the LRM shower especially if your group is brawler heavy there are routes to get to the LRM boats and take them out.

[Adeptus Odren]

Noth, on 04 November 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

I rarely sit in the open, ye most of my deaths come directly or indirectly (chewing me up so bad I'm useless when I confront something other than a LRM mech. I pop me head out to snipe and I get arain of LRMs on my head. I move back into cover and powerdown, most the missiles still track to me and hit me. Missiles often go straight through cover and I've even seen them do 90 degree turns around corners.

I chase the light that is lighting up my team mates, he leads me into the open where I get torn to shreds my LRMs. If I don't chase into the open he gets near free reign to light up me and my team mates.

LRMs are simply OP at the moment. They take relatively little skill to use (seriously a guasscat takes more skill to use) and dictate the strategy of the battlefield. That is poor balance.

No. They are definitely not OP as long as the entire group has AMS and learns to combine their AMS fire. We've charged LRM boats in Caustic with zero casualties because of that. Oh, and do learn to blind the LRM boats by blowing away their scouts.

Den McTard, on 04 November 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

My only gripe about LRMS is what many others have mentioned: Much of the "cover" is useless, even giant buildings and tall rock formations. LRMS can sail right through much of it.

I dunno. Doesn't seem that much of an issue to me. Today's precision munitions can go through a window, so why not a missile a thousand years from now?

[Vlad Ward]

Den McTard, on 04 November 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

My only gripe about LRMS is what many others have mentioned: Much of the "cover" is useless, even giant buildings and tall rock formations. LRMS can sail right through much of it.

I have never had this happen to me, and I probably drive a much larger Mech than most of the people complaining about this.

I'm starting to wonder if people don't realize that lag shield works both ways (When you run behind a building with missiles on your tail, the server still thinks you're a couple meters back for a second or two and you can appear to take hits from behind cover). Or maybe I just only run behind the working buildings. I don't know.

[Noth]

Stunner, on 04 November 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

I was playing my LRM Cat yesterday and I was able to dodge other players missles by using cover. Only a few would hit me if at all.

As for LRM's needing less skill than a Guassapult that's just untrue. An LRM boat requires a teammate to lock on so he can fire at the target. The guassapult can fire at anyone he can see. If you are standing out in the open and the LRM boat can see you directly then you aren't playing the game right.

And again, this is the LRM boat dictating the battlefield. I always use cover when available. LRM just forces it and you can't move from it unless you want to get pulverized. A guassapult, I can avoid in the open by good driving, unless the guassapult driver has good skill. This allows you to actually advance on a guassapult. Try and do that against an LRM boat you'd die without getting close.

It' a matter of the fact that the LRMs are so powerful you have only one way to deal with them (cover), 2 if you go with the group comp specifically made to counter them (grouped AMS or majority of fast mechs). It leads to stale game play.

[MuffinTop]

Another one of these threads? The OP couldn't have read and replied on one fo the most recent ones? I have no sympathy for you OP, move your steel a$$, and find some cover. While you are at it, buy an AMS too.

Edited by MuffinTop, 04 November 2012 - 08:14 AM.

[JJ KagatoArmitage]

LRMs should be in most builds, cause the ranged support is nice, but they have been common in mass numbers for a bit now, thts being said they're easy to win against. you can outwait them or draw fire with a few scouts, or just zerg rush its supprizingly effective if you all stay in one group

[Noth]

Stunner, on 04 November 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

It sounds like to me the game actually has strategy now. Different maps have different tactics but there is no reason to stay at your base and wait out the LRM shower especially if your group is brawler heavy there are routes to get to the LRM boats and take them out.

It has very limited strategy. Before it was an all brawler strategy and to counter that you ran lights. Now it is an LRM heavy strategy and the only counters are hiding in cover or stacking AMS and moving as a blob. Last time I saw moving as a blob as a main tactic was not something most people wanted.

Adeptus Odren, on 04 November 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

No. They are definitely not OP as long as the entire group has AMS and learns to combine their AMS fire. We've charged LRM boats in Caustic with zero casualties because of that. Oh, and do learn to blind the LRM boats by blowing away their scouts.

Again, it is dictating a single strategy over the battlefield. Look at LoL, anytime something like that crept up (where a certain strategy or build dictated the match, they would change things so that it wouldn't be the case. It prevents stale gameplay and allowed unique strategies that wouldn't had been possible if they didn't nerf what was dictating the match.

Also, those are some poor scouts. A good spotter won't engage or spot in a way that allows you to stay safe in cover and kill it.