293 replies to this topic

[Aidan Malchor]

I don't use LRM's and no I don't find them terrible OP. AMS do reduce how many get through, and cover does reduce some of the damage as well. Know you weapon min ranges and you can totally control the field. Can you just walk straight up to a LRM crew and expect to have any armor left, no you can't. This is a thinking shooter. Flank, use cover, make them come to you etc etc. Don't just whine and complain that you get killed.

[hanitora]

Quote

Triple AMS mounts might chew LRMs up like candy, but it'll also be an incredible ammo hog in the process.

Like I said, why even have the missiles in the first place? It's effectively scissors to the rock and there is no paper.

You absolutely NEED to be able to figure out what I am talking about, otherwise you have no place to be discussing balance at all. You are proposing a change where entirely removing the weapon is a preferable alternative.

Edited by hanitora, 04 November 2012 - 05:55 PM.

[buckX]

I never agree with increasing cost to balance. That's just a way of making premium time and YLWs actually increase potency. But yeah, LRMs are out of control.

[Boymonkey]

hanitora, on 04 November 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

Like I said, why even have the missiles in the first place? It's effectively scissors to the rock and there is no paper.

You absolutely NEED to be able to figure out what I am talking about, otherwise you have no place to be discussing balance at all. You are proposing a change where entirely removing the weapon is a preferable alternative.

Iam sorry you want to remove missiles? good luck getting support for that seeing that many mechs were designed for missiles.
Look be it LRM's or SSRM2's or SRM6's there is a way to counter each just learn how to play and get your teammates to help you out when you are stuck.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

People use LRMs en masse because of their literal brain dead requirements to use and they do too much damage per missile.

People will always take the path of least resistance.

[hanitora]

Boymonkey, on 04 November 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

Iam sorry you want to remove missiles? good luck getting support for that seeing that many mechs were designed for missiles.
Look be it LRM's or SSRM2's or SRM6's there is a way to counter each just learn how to play and get your teammates to help you out when you are stuck.

I don't want anything done to the missiles, I know how to play and why I fail to x y or z. I am trying to explain you or whoever the hell I am talking to that his proposed change is a worse alternative to simply removing the LRM from the game.

I mean you people know about as much about balancing a game as I know about rocket surgery and for those that do not know me - I don't know a thing about rocket surgery. So all I can do is try to explain in absolutely idiotic and extreme but better alternatives just how stupid your balance suggestions are.

[Secundus]

hanitora, on 04 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

The challenge is coordinating with your scouts and brawlers to actually retain lock and position on a mech to ensure that your entire barrage actually hits him instead of flying harmlessly into an obstacle or the ground. And surviving long enough for your team to save your *** when a scout or brawler gets within 180 range of you and starts ruining your ****.
A lance of LRM boats vs a lance of brawlers is faceroll for the brawlers if they move in a group and have AMS.

So you're saying the challenge to using LRMs is having skilled teammates, which is a basic challenge for all mechs anyway.

[hanitora]

Secundus, on 04 November 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

So you're saying the challenge to using LRMs is having skilled teammates, which is a basic challenge for all mechs anyway.

Yes, ******* precisely what I am saying. LRM boats are a supporting role. They aren't fighters, they help others fight by limiting the enemies ability to maneuver. Keep in mind that LRM isn't a weapon exclusively used by boats, sometimes brawlers and other mechs use LRMs to support their own assault on LOS targets and those mechs do not rely on their team mates for lock.

[Boymonkey]

I do not have any problem with LRM's because I do not rush out into the open, the amount of times I have seen an assault mech run after a scout right in the open and have 3 or 4 LRM mechs rain fire down on them.....
Be more patient with your play, look where all the missiles are coming from and find a way to get behind them.
LRM's seem plentyful because of the trial mechs have a lot of them, once people buy their own mechs they will try other weapons out.

[iHover]

Just to clarify and to respond to the you dont know tactics newbie bull
1. Im not a newb Ive been in since beta was open to founders and am a member of one of the largest guild in the game.

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  I dont commonly get taken out by lrm fire. I am how ever a little tired of dropping in matches with 3 or more LRM monsters and sitting back while they steam roll drop after drop. Its boring.
  
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  I seriously doubt that the games designers intended to have a mech packing 3 or 4 lrm 20s running around doing 40% damage to anything on the map in one alpha strike.
  
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  I dont think its good for the game as a whole, it will drive people off. I know Im already looking forward to the hawken beta.

Edited by iHover, 04 November 2012 - 06:31 PM.

[Brenden]

Two AMS with five tons of ammo help in this situation.

[Stone Wall]

Kread, on 04 November 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

I agree fully with the OP, trial mech with LRM's doing damage and stuff, outrageous..

Just remove LRM's from trial mechs to balance the game.

If that still gives the trial mech a fraction of a chance at any game-play whatsoever, I would further suggest removal of the legs of all trial mechs,

That would complete the new player experience.

old clans would have new people sit back and just fire LRMs as the COs and XOs brawled the other team.

[Secundus]

hanitora, on 04 November 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

Yes, ******* precisely what I am saying. LRM boats are a supporting role. They aren't fighters, they help others fight by limiting the enemies ability to maneuver. Keep in mind that LRM isn't a weapon exclusively used by boats, sometimes brawlers and other mechs use LRMs to support their own assault on LOS targets and those mechs do not rely on their team mates for lock.

I'm just clarifying, because you had responded to my comment that LRMs take no skill to use and it seemed like you were disagreeing with me. I also never referred to LRM boats, simply the LRMs themselves. I feel they do too much damage and/or are way too easy to use for how much damage they do. I feel this from both the giving and receiving end, and I've never made an LRM boat.

[DjAirwolf]

LRM's aren't OP'd, this video proves it.

[Harmatia]

I'm not sure if I would phrase it that way, but yeah, a team should probably be proficient in LRM deployment. However I'm sure at some point in the near future one or more players will figure out an alternative which will become the new black... so to speak.

[hanitora]

Secundus, on 04 November 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

I'm just clarifying, because you had responded to my comment that LRMs take no skill to use and it seemed like you were disagreeing with me. I also never referred to LRM boats, simply the LRMs themselves. I feel they do too much damage and/or are way too easy to use for how much damage they do. I feel this from both the giving and receiving end, and I've never made an LRM boat.

And I am saying that LRMs don't have to take skill and SHOULD NOT take skill. They are the mechwarrior universes newbie weapons. Give a bunch to a novice and he'll be useful. Now, I don't know if they do too much damage or not. I find them **** weak unless massed so I have no idea what the whole problem with them is. However, I see people making absolutely pants on head ******** balance suggestions and I can't just leave them be without calling the people out on it. Or I could, but then I'd have nothing to do.

[Tebbo]

Noth, on 04 November 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

Hence everyone that has said move into cover and powerdown to avoid LRMs have been speaking out their butt, thanks for proving it.

...no they're not speaking out of their butt. you move back into cover and power down to avoid any ongoing lock. that whole time you're powered down if there was a light or something looking at you, you still aren't going to be targeted. it gives your teammates a chance to push scouts away if you over extended and are taking the brunt of LRM fire.

then when you're powered up again any scout is going to have to try and get a lock again, which by then there may be other targets for the LRM boats.

you can do it smartly or stupidly.

[dtgamemaster]

No one has yet to say this.

In the context of a team game, a full 8 vs 8 COMPETENT premade would yield different results in a "LRM" war. A war of attrition and superior tactics, not a ROFL stomp.

It is precisely with LRMs that strategy can evolve and counter tactics employed - to reach a higher level of play.

Besides that, taking cover under missile fire is part of the learning process. Maneuvering to hit targets under cover is also a learning process.

There is no newbieness associated with USING LRMs and it is extremely childish to think of it that way, when it is an important part of the game mechanic in getting map control and inflicting damage.

Edited by dtgamemaster, 04 November 2012 - 07:50 PM.

[Adeptus Odren]

Noth, on 04 November 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

Also, those are some poor scouts. A good spotter won't engage or spot in a way that allows you to stay safe in cover and kill it.

Not really poor, the assault lance stayed in cover while our fast mediums hunted the other team's scouts, wrecked their day and spotting ability while our scouts located the enemy firing line. Then the assault lance charged in.

[Lucy Cameron]

If you put pressure on the LRM boats, you can shut down their offense. All too often, everyone decides to wait it out or go out and brawl midfield and end up dead due to the steel rain.