293 replies to this topic

[hanitora]

Cel, on 04 November 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Being out in the open is an extremely large part of this game. Are you then saying everyone should be taking cover and STAY in cover at all times? couple of words come to mind.

I'm not saying we should all go through the damn lake in river city, but technically everywhere else is LRM territory too, few hills ain't gonna stop LRMs that shoot into the sky then dive down on you.

Being in cover from LRMs does not always necessarily mean you need an obstacle between you and the boat. You can be in cover in the open.

For example. There is a bunch of heavy brawlers and a dual AMS Atlas squatting between you and the missile boats and a scout is spotting you for them. You're actually in cover, the number of missiles that will hit you is relatively small compared to the number launched.

You're in a giant *********** involving AMS equipped mechs in the open - you're in cover.

You run behind a hill while in the wide open to break lock. You're in cover because dumbfire missiles will not hit you.

[Cel]

hanitora, on 04 November 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Being in cover from LRMs does not always necessarily mean you need an obstacle between you and the boat. You can be in cover in the open.

For example. There is a bunch of heavy brawlers and a dual AMS Atlas squatting between you and the missile boats and a scout is spotting you for them. You're actually in cover, the number of missiles that will hit you is relatively small compared to the number launched.

You're in a giant *********** involving AMS equipped mechs in the open - you're in cover.

You run behind a hill while in the wide open to break lock. You're in cover because dumbfire missiles will not hit you.

Unless there's a spotter on you, which is almost always the case. Then the hill does nothing.

[hanitora]

Cel, on 04 November 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

Unless there's a spotter on you, which is almost always the case. Then the hill does nothing.

That's what you get for playing bad. Spotter on you means one of 2 things. You're an overzealous scout or you're a solo rambo away from any other mechs.

Of course it could mean that your group is in a really stupid location, but that's less significant seeing as AMS is pretty damn effective.

[rdelta78]

In my commando i dont use AMS because i need the extra 1.5 tons for more pew pew. What i do to protect myself from the LRMs is to use cover as much as possible. If i get in the open i often get bombarded and immediately i have to retreat or i become metal barbeque sausage. When fighting lrms you have to play smart and fight dirty.

[Gaeb]

So I started playing today, and played about 6 hours. For the first 2 hours I was in the same boat as the first post "OMG LRMS ARE OP" ... but eventually I started figuring it out. I agree with the guy quoted below.

After about the 4th hour I found the public teamspeak server and joined a random group of 8, and had good times. One memorable LRM boat battle on that city map had ~4 awesomes and catapults(?) up on the high ground boating at us, and someone with some PPC's / Gauss rifles as well. So... we probably wasted about 1500 of their missiles just dodging back and forth between buildings (in my experience, buildings do work decently well as cover) .... the finally charged up there and they just got demolished by a bunch of medium/heavy mechs at close range. Our team only had one dedicated boat, I think, so despite them having way more missile boats we ended up capping their base and killing 6 of their team.

ebea51, on 04 November 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

LRMS are fine. LRM nerfing protips:

Use cover.
Dont stand in open.
EQUIP AMS... WITH AMMO.
Stay near other mechs with AMS (Yes, a while ago a patch did change AMS so that 2 AMS shoots down twice the missles as a single).
DONT GET TAG'd OR NARC'd.
IF TAG'd or NARC'd - run for high cover.
Rush LRM boats to within 150m (or is it 120m??) so their LRMs are ineffective.
Put armour on your mech.
Spread the damage over your mech. For example if your core is weak, TURN so all the missles DONT hit your core and kill you. Also DONT turn your back on missles, your armour is weak on the back.
If other team is spamming LRM... JUKE UNTILL THEY RUN OUT OF AMMO.

Finally...
THINK - USE YOUR BRAIN

Follow these easy tips and LRMs will no longer be an issue.

[Mechwarrior413183]

If LRMs were nerfed by 50% and their costs, they'd become completely unusable, I may be doing the LRM thing with a catapult now but in CB I was just brawling and rarely packed AMS they didn't bother me much then doubt they would now, I mostly see LRMs coming from the trial mechs too.

[MrEllis]

Cel, on 04 November 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Being out in the open is an extremely large part of this game. Are you then saying everyone should be taking cover and STAY in cover at all times? couple of words come to mind.

I'm not saying we should all go through the damn lake in river city, but technically everywhere else is LRM territory too, few hills ain't gonna stop LRMs that shoot into the sky then dive down on you.

There is being exposed and being EXPOSED. I haven't played long but I find I survive better if I break LOS on spotters and close on missileboats. I fight from cover to cover when I'm playing but I have really only played medium and light as of yet. It would seem to me, and this is in a pug with almost no coordination, it's in my best interest to provide the smallest chance of a LRM lock and shoot. I can't weather concentrated fire and if I am the only one visible to the enemy and in the open I expect hell to rain down on me because I have went against logic and put myself in a bad place usually due to target fixation or the desire to get my spot in. There is plenty of cover, different routes, and ways to stop a spot, I see the AMS as icing on the cake. We all don't have to fight on tip of the volcano...

[Johnny Human]

Pat Kell, on 04 November 2012 - 06:33 AM, said:

Just us cover to advance to with your optimal range and then poke in and out of cover shooting them. You score hits while they rain down a firey death on the building/mountain in front of you.

Except when the missiles actually fly through the building/mountain in front of you.

[Mister Haha]

Johnny Human, on 04 November 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

Except when the missiles actually fly through the building/mountain in front of you.

or the bridges, or the caves..

[hanitora]

It's related to the ****** netcode, they aren't actually flying through any of that **** and if you think otherwise you're provably wrong. I dare you fire 1600 LRM on my Raven while I squat under a bridge. Go right ahead.

[DegeneratePervert]

If a particular build dictates the outcome of matches constantly, then the build is OP and needs a nerf.

[SpiralRazor]

iHover, on 04 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

Is it just my drops or has this game become nothing more than an LRM contest? I played for four hours yesterday and most of the drops where nothing more than sitting back waiting for the missile boats to blow the other team away ( or for us to get blown away). The game now seems to be dominated by Assault missile boats packing three or four LRM launchers with enough double heat sinks and ammo to fire nonstop through out the match. These monsters piloted by unskilled players move to a single position and go from target to target raining wave after wave of missiles. Even in the organized drops Ive been in play out like this. The LRM boats even lay waste to targets that are already being handled by brawlers. The game just seems to be completely out of balance. IMHO LRMs need to be nerfed by at least 50% and their cost needs to be raised by the same amount.

LOL....no bro, i played 4 hours as well..and i saw something COMPLETELY different.

Missile boats were finally effective, instead of being basically ignorable.

You are aware that an average win nets you about 130k right? And to get that average win, most LRM based mechs have to spend 60k JUST on ammunition rearm?? Add in even moderate damage and your looking at 90 to 110k on repair and rearm....

OP?? Please.......we're making between 30-and 50k a match, if were lucky to win.... You can farm on a trial Raven at a MUCH faster rate then that bro.

[Krivvan]

Artemis. I'm scared.

[Alexander Kerensky]

Two patches prior to Open Beta had LRMs rendered completely unusuable. Before that, they were incredibly powerful. Right now seems just about right in terms of their usability, as they make spotting and indirect fire an actual factor in a game that requires punishing being out in the open with a slow vehicle to maintain balance.

Like most popular weapons, from Gauss to Medium Lasers, they do indeed dictate the flow of a battle, as they should. The problem with posts like this is that they tend not to realize what potential greater imbalance the weapon is keeping in check. The strength of LRM barrages right now is keeping the slow Assault class from being the undisputed top of the food chain, as anyone who was playing in the few weeks of LRM uselessness can attest to.

[Noth]

Alexander Kerensky, on 05 November 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

Two patches prior to Open Beta had LRMs rendered completely unusuable. Before that, they were incredibly powerful. Right now seems just about right in terms of their usability, as they make spotting and indirect fire an actual factor in a game that requires punishing being out in the open with a slow vehicle to maintain balance.

Like most popular weapons, from Gauss to Medium Lasers, they do indeed dictate the flow of a battle, as they should. The problem with posts like this is that they tend not to realize what potential greater imbalance the weapon is keeping in check. The strength of LRM barrages right now is keeping the slow Assault class from being the undisputed top of the food chain, as anyone who was playing in the few weeks of LRM uselessness can attest to.

When the LRMs were at 1.8 damage it was an all time low on complaints about LRMs both ways. They were deadly, but not dominating. Then they get buffed to 2.0 damage and a buff with the TAG and narc being added.

Also it's not keeping assaults in check seeing as assaults are one of the top offenders of LRM spam.

[F lan Ker]

S!

I was many times in the receiving end of LRM barrages before OB. Now with OB I tried the LRM builds aka Catapult. Really an eye opener there. Sure LRMs are very powerful in large quantities and against a target without cover and/or AMS, but nearly useless against a pilot who knows his stuff and uses terrain/buildings/AMS/etc. to move and times his movement with the rest of the team. It is a team effort and the other side can make it hard for LRM boats with good tactics.

Then when I am the LRM support. It requires high ground to get proper firing solution = GaussCats and other long range Mechs for sure place shots on you. So timing is again the key. Listen to target calls, position and fire missiles, then wait for them to impact unless lock is lost or you are being shot at. After that have for sure to duck for cover because of unwanted attention. If the target is smart and uses good tactics you have to reposition to get in shots better and moving a LRM boat is risky business as they are not the fastest Mechs around nor do they have that much defensive capability against other Mechs.

So bottom line is that LRM boating does require skill to be REALLY effective for the team and not to just look pretty while aimlessly spamming them. You can be killed by anything getting close to you if no SA is maintained or no other Mech is protecting you while shooting. A LRM heavy team will lose to a brawler team knowing it's stuff. People just should pay attention to the battlefield, data gathered of opposing Mech positions and so forth to adjust tactics accordingly. After that LRMs pose a much smaller threat and never leave *Mech bay* without AMS

Learn from your deaths, evaluate every encounter afterwards.

Edited by F lan Ker, 05 November 2012 - 01:06 AM.

[bravo3]

lrms are not really op, if half the scouts in 1 team did their jobs to harrass the missileboaters instead of rushing to their deaths, it would be an annoyance at best. i always try to get behind the lrmboats and engage 2-3 of them at the same time, the problem is my team doesnt always follow up and i end up dying for nothing...

[SubXulu]

Accused, on 04 November 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

No. The problem is deeper and more complicated than "nerf by 50%".

The LRM flight path needs to be tweaked so they don't fly at 90 degree angles. It also doesn't help that they fly through buildings and rocks. Not to mention that AMS is only slightly effective against them.

This ... whats the point of cover if the missles fly through most of it?

[Riptor]

Truth is:

The weapon is to easy to use compared to any other weapon and does more damage then any other weapon since there are way to many missle hardpoints on some mechs. Also the weight of LRMs compared to other weapon systems is pretty low. An AC/20 doesnt even compare to a single LRM 20 because right now that LRM 20 CAUSES 40 DAMAGE! An lrm 15 causes 30 damage and people are able to carry around 3 or 4 on their mechs. 4 x 15 = 60

60 Damage a salvo without even overheating.

Take in the ease of aquiring a target if you have 1 or 2 lightmechs with lagshields that have ZERO problems runing donuts around the entire enemy team and you can waste any enemy very easaly.

Armor folds like paper under just 2 LRM 20s.

Add into account the insane reload times and you can have a steady stream of lrms stripping away even atlas armor away in moments.

No other weapon in the game does that. Not even OP Gauss.

And needing a spotter is no drawback when you take into account that currently a Jenner is capable of eating more shots then an awesome due to lagshield and netcoding.

Not only that but most Terrain and cover wont help you because the LRMs are so mind boogling accurate AND have a flight pattern that makes any cover that isnt DOUBLE your mech useless since it comes crashing down right ontop of you.

I much much MUCH preffered the LRMs of mechwarrior 4-

If you fired them directly at your target.. meaning crosshair on the target. they would also fly directly at your target.

If you wanted them to go indirectly you had to get the lock.. then shoot at the sky so the LRMs would arc in a curve.

Right now the LRMs are wayyyyy to accurate.

Delivering ALL their damage and not random damage.

BTW:

Clan LRMs dont have a minimum range.

One weapon to rule them all....

Edited by Riptor, 05 November 2012 - 02:36 AM.

[Ashnod]

Sorry, but LRM's are not OP - Use cover, don't run out alone in the open, pay attention to incoming LRM's - rush LRM boats while using cover.. Snipe them with AC/2 or Gauss.. Basically.. Play smart?

Edited by Ashnod, 05 November 2012 - 02:44 AM.