64 replies to this topic

[RG Notch]

The real fallacy of this entire thread is that the people who use those terms are interested in civil discussion, but you keep up the good fight.

[Tekerton]

Speaking to people in a polite manner is absolutely encouraged. We shouldn't just haul off and drop every cuss word and insult at someone while speaking down to them in the most condescending, hateful manner. We are agreed on that.

That said...

Pugstomper is offensive to a grown human being? Are you serious? That's a real question...are you really Really being serious or have I missed the tongue'n'cheek here? I'm gobsmacked that anyone would either find or take offense to a term used to describe something in a game that is 100% about violence in the first place!!! We load up gigantic multi-ton horrifying stomping titans of death for the purpose of KILLING the other people and taking their property...often for payment...and you want to talk nicey nice? There is a serious disconnect happening there.

That is stretching so far to seek out a perceived offense that it is amazing to me that anyone who truly believes that is offensive would ever even use the internet, much less a game forum.

----------

Elitist - Uhm...yeah...guess what? I AM an Elitist. Does that mean I'm a total jerk? No. Does that make me evil? No. Does it make me an insufferable putz? No. I'm also 100% certain there are those reading this right now that have answered YES to all of those questions and that's ok by me. There are those who have played with me and mine on the Unofficial TS server who can vouch for me as a fun person with whom to run on a team. That said, when it comes to certain things, I am very much an elitist and proudly so. I have my reasons and I sleep quite well.

----------------------

"Learn to play" - This is about context. Some people REALLY do need to learn to play, straight up. Anyone who has read these boards with regularity has seen far too many of those types that roll in with a single post to bash the client after regaling us with the tale of those matches they just played...all both of them. They do NOT know how to use the software and sometimes they need to be told that in order to actually have a leg to stand on, they need to "learn to play" first. It doesn't mean the person telling them that needs to be nasty about it. But to remove the use of the phrase from our vernacular on the off chance someone may get offended? THAT is offensive, to me as an adult, a free thinker, and a human being. I also believe that humans have to choose to be offended so I'm going to forego the offense here and not let it make me all crampy and bloated.
---------------------

The other one on the list...Entitled or Entitlement. Again...say what? I get that the contextual use is more often than not used in a less than favorable light, to be sure. However, if anyone here denies that there are major issues with those suffering from delusions of entitlement than I think you have more to concern yourself with than adults speaking to each other in a way that you don't prefer.

Some people act entitled as all get out and sometimes they really need to be called out on it. It's how you do it that makes the difference. You can inform someone that they are indeed NOT entitled to a thing without being caustic while doing so. So the very notion that the sentiment/term should be avoided is illogical and counterproductive. Human Beings love few things more in this life than that which is viewed as Forbidden Fruit. Tell a bunch of gamers they shouldn't use this word and that word and THOSE are the words you are going to hear ten times more from there on out.

In fact, I'll bet my last c-bill this thread starts a whole new movement in the use of the words on your list.

I'll leave it by repeating this very simple notion: We are testing a beta client for a game that will allow us to get paid to simulate murdering the crap out of other people, destroy all their hard work, ruin them economically, and take their stuff. Context is everything.

Edited by Tekerton, 04 November 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[CobraFive]

too much QQ

[Insidious Johnson]

Welcome to the age of Politically Correct Mech Coddling. Now they want speech nerfed and complain about the effective lack of communication in game. L2Think.

[Keifomofutu]

Page 3 without Hawken being mentioned? Its like the MWO version of calling someone an EDIT: "german party member from 1940".

Edited by Keifomofutu, 04 November 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[Tekerton]

Keifomofutu, on 04 November 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

Page 3 without Hawken being mentioned? Its like the MWO version of calling someone an EDIT: "german party member from 1940".

what are you, some kind of Hawken Fanboi? /zing!

[Hexenhammer]

I'm sorry but I can't support this thread as it would stifle free speech. There are some individuals that can not carry on a conversation, their words, without calling someone a boot looking fanboi in one sentence and then call the same person a chicken little doomest the next.

[JadePanther]

sorry but Pubstomping has to stay.. Its the easiest 1 word description of the state of play..

I apologize if that word is too easy to describe what ur 8 man team does when it goes around bullying and roflstomping lone wolf teams...

If u dont like it go back to ur little playground or social media outlet and push around your classmates for a change..

because face it pubstompin premades dont belong in random PUG matches.. they should be out taking on other gangs of hooligans.

[Lin Shai]

JadePanther, on 04 November 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

sorry but Pubstomping has to stay.. Its the easiest 1 word description of the state of play..

I apologize if that word is too easy to describe what ur 8 man team does when it goes around bullying and roflstomping lone wolf teams...

If u dont like it go back to ur little playground or social media outlet and push around your classmates for a change..

because face it pubstompin premades dont belong in random PUG matches.. they should be out taking on other gangs of hooligans.

You do realize adults rarely pay any attention to someone who sounds like a twelve year old and can't form complete sentences or use actual words, yes?

Wait ... was that too insulting? I'm still a little vague about this whole huggy-feely thing we've got going on in this thread.

[JadePanther]

Lin Shai, on 04 November 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

You do realize adults rarely pay any attention to someone who sounds like a twelve year old and can't form complete sentences or use actual words, yes?

Wait ... was that too insulting? I'm still a little vague about this whole huggy-feely thing we've got going on in this thread.

OOOOH grammar police... I'm shakin.. OMG no.. BAD grammarz Missspelssings arghghhhhhh..

I hope u know I never cared for grammar and writing.. so as long as ur not being critical of some lines of code, or a mathmatical proof i wrote than I DONT GIVE A <redacted>...

u can take ur grammar Nazism to dictionary.com...

[Keifomofutu]

Tekerton, on 04 November 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

what are you, some kind of Hawken Fanboi? /zing!

I would never! Anyone who likes that game should be locked behind barbed wire fences and patrolling german sheperds.

[Beo Vulf]

/sigh! Sorry Lefty not going to happen as long as there are "KIDS" playing the game. I expect that kind of talk from the 8 to 12 years old, bit you get it from the 13 to 40 year olds as well. Until they reach mental maturity we will all ways have those terms floating around in game, and on the forums. It's the same in any other game that doesn't have a minimum age limit to buy. Since this is FTP forget about it.

[Lykaon]

Learn to play is apt and suprisingly often.

Now if only folks would elaborate more than just saying ...

LTP crybaby/noob.

[Lefty Lucy]

Beo Vulf, on 04 November 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

/sigh! Sorry Lefty not going to happen as long as there are "KIDS" playing the game. I expect that kind of talk from the 8 to 12 years old, bit you get it from the 13 to 40 year olds as well. Until they reach mental maturity we will all ways have those terms floating around in game, and on the forums. It's the same in any other game that doesn't have a minimum age limit to buy. Since this is FTP forget about it.

I think there's value in setting an example for other players.

[The Echo Inside]

Seems to be a bit of a problem drawing distinctions between games and reality.

In the game, we're death robots bent on destroying each other, all well and good, because it's not real, it's an entertainment fantasy.

In the forum, we're all human beings deserving of at least some degree of mutual respect, because that's reality. We're interacting with other people directly in a non-fantasy way, even if the medium happens to be through keyboard and screen.

--

There also seems to be a bit of confusion on "Free speech". While free speech is certainly noble and worthwhile, there's no such thing as speech free from consequence.

I believe the intent behind Left Lucy's post was to try and get away from attack language in general and was focusing down on a number of terms that are used primarily/exclusively for that. In other words, encouraging a forum culture of maturity and mutual respect.

If it's more important to be able to use derogatory words, based on an emotional desire to have no limits (or what have you), then the forum culture will continue to follow that path. The consequence of which, will be a negative community, which will stifle free speech in it's own way through that negativity/peer pressure/bullying/etc, and with less activity than would otherwise occur.

So, really this isn't a discussion on free speech, as both perspectives "stifle" it in their own way, but more on what we'd like our community to reflect of our own natures.

Though, as was said before and others have said, this thread will be lost on most that lack empathy, so these discussions may be all a bit pointless (in the practical sense). Still, there's always hope.


(Small note: Having lived in a place where being labelled an enemy of the state for what you said was a real possibility, I find this whole, "it's an attack on free speech"/"deal with it" attitude, especially when there's no force involved/it requires mutual agreement and it's simply a request for civility, delightfully naive/child-like. It's oddly refreshing in a surreal sort of way.)

Edited by The Echo Inside, 04 November 2012 - 04:48 PM.

[Beo Vulf]

It's a nice thought but I just don't see it happening as long as you have people who don't have the mental maturity to converse in writing, or in person in a civilized manner. The ones using those terms the most frequently either do not have the ability, or lack the desire to be anything other than immature. This issue is not new to the introduction of MWO, it been around for 30 years and has gotten progressively worse as more children spend more time behind a computer, and less time interacting with people their own age in physical play.

[Lefty Lucy]

Beo Vulf, on 04 November 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

It's a nice thought but I just don't see it happening as long as you have people who don't have the mental maturity to converse in writing, or in person in a civilized manner. The ones using those terms the most frequently either do not have the ability, or lack the desire to be anything other than immature. This issue is not new to the introduction of MWO, it been around for 30 years and has gotten progressively worse as more children spend more time behind a computer, and less time interacting with people their own age in physical play.

We were all young once. You don't think we can teach them by providing a more mature example? If someone is being immature, then we should be telling them it's not acceptable.

[Beo Vulf]

Lefty Lucy, on 04 November 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

We were all young once. You don't think we can teach them by providing a more mature example? If someone is being immature, then we should be telling them it's not acceptable.

Read the second sentence of your quote again. the key words ability, and desire are used for a specific reason. This is something that we try to do in game and just as often as not we get told to go f*$@ ourselves by some one who does not have the desire to change.

[Galathon Redd]

I disagree with a few of the OP's terms being insulting. What else would you call someone who whines, but a whiner? There are countless threads started here that contain, for lack of any better term, whining. "Nerf premades!", "LRMs/Gauss broken!", "No Premium Time Button", "I'm quitting until they fix X", and so on... this is crap. It's whining by definition of the word - people don't like something, so they get angry and loud instead of being constructive and offering feedback or asking questions in a well thought-out way. They are whiners.

I disagree with "entitled" as many of those posts come from founders who clearly elicit an entitlement complex, often expecting refunds if their complaints aren't addressed as if it's some kind of nuclear threat. I see BS, I call BS.

This is a PC game, not a TT game. Having a different medium means different mechanics and, thus, balance must be different. Still, some people hate changes made to improve the PC experience based solely on TT canon which may not necessarily work well with MWO's format. They are fanboys by definition.

"Learn To Play" is a valid argument to a lot of posted complaints as well. LRMs are powerful because they're meant to be - they're meant to make people use cover and strategy, and to punish "Leroy Jenkins" rush attitudes. Heat is meant to make you think about payload delivery instead of alpha-striking nonstop. And if you hate people working together, why are you playing a multiplayer team-based game, when you could get on TeamSpeak or even use the minimap's "Take Command" function instead, or using basic team tactics, and fighting back? Seriously, a lot of problems really can be solved by simply getting better at the game - by learning to play.

Look, all, I'm against trolling as much as anyone, but there's also human ego going on here: when given a correct answer to a problem that suggests themselves as inadequate in some way, people would rather cry "troll" than accept criticism. Thus, not everything that offends someone is in fact offensive. "QQ", "crybaby" and other direct, intentional insults are one thing; calling things how they are is another - something I cannot agree with the OP on.

Edited by Galathon Redd, 04 November 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[IIIuminaughty]

Why should we stop using them? This is what gamming is all about!