75 replies to this topic

[hanitora]

Quote

Weapon effectiveness should be roughly equal to effort needed to use it, that ratio is off for LRMs (and streaks to a lesser extent). The pilot can be nigh 100% safe while bringing in more fire then even gausscats, with minimal coordination.

No and Jesus Christ, stop with the sandbox 1v2 counting as 1v1 already.

Somehow it's less effort now for 1 guy to keep a dude on lock and the other to hover his mouse over dude while holding down the fire button than it is for 1 guy to hold down his fire button while holding his mouse over a dude. Blows my mind.
No you aren't a special snowflake who puts in the extra effort and has super skillz superiour to everyone else because you use a gauss rifle to heatshot noobz while popping over a ridge repeatedly.

We don't need LRMs to be some ridiculous skill weapons, they are what they are. Missiles that track dudes at long range. That's all there is to it and the whole point of them. They are **** at close range and good at long range against morons walking alone in the middle of a beautiful meadow. They take a while a arrive at target and are avoidable using terrain, losing lock and AMS. Yeah, I know that bad feeling when your dumb *** gets caught in the middle of an open field and the LRM rape comes, tough luck, it has happened to me too.

Edited by hanitora, 04 November 2012 - 03:39 PM.

[Sarevos]

hanitora, on 04 November 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

No and Jesus Christ, stop with the sandbox 1v2 counting as 1v1 already.

Somehow it's less effort now for 1 guy to keep a dude on lock and the other to hover his mouse over dude while holding down the fire button than it is for 1 guy to hold down his fire button while holding his mouse over a dude. Blows my mind.
No you aren't a special snowflake who puts in the extra effort and has super skillz superiour to everyone else because you use a gauss rifle to heatshot noobz while popping over a ridge repeatedly.

it feels unbalanced because 1 we dont have ecm 2 we dont have alot of cover as missiles tend to go over and through many terrain features and 3 weapons dont impact trees lol if you hide in a forest the tree should be kind enough to take some fire for you since its impeding your vision XD

[Acehilator]

*sigh*

L2cover.

It exists (yeah even on Caustic).

It works, too.

Missiles only go through certain terrain when being launched not when arriving so quit whining about bugs ffs.

Edited by Acehilator, 04 November 2012 - 03:41 PM.

[Insidious Johnson]

... and the number one defense to LRM boats is: close in using stealth and cover then pound them at close range.

[Kaijin]

SamizdatCowboy, on 04 November 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

MWO is trending towards artillery battles, where each side has majority lrm boats and a few lights to spot. Right now there is just no adequate defense against this offense (especially considering that terrain does NOT currently block missiles correctly). AMS is just not effective against massive lrm spam.

This will be my first time to utter this acronym on this MWO forum, and since it's such a historic moment, I will make it really big, and centered for effect too....

L2P

While they can add an element of challenge, LRM teams are regularly taken down by teams comprised purely of short to mid-range brawlers without any LRMs of their own.

Please, everyone - stop trying to change this game into a mindless shooter.

Edited by Kaijin, 04 November 2012 - 04:21 PM.

[Particle Man]

There's already a built in mechanic to combat LRMs. Play as a team, kill the spotters, and take cover.


it's very simple.

[hanitora]

Sarevos, on 04 November 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

it feels unbalanced because 1 we dont have ecm 2 we dont have alot of cover as missiles tend to go over and through many terrain features and 3 weapons dont impact trees lol if you hide in a forest the tree should be kind enough to take some fire for you since its impeding your vision XD

You don't need ECM, and ECM is barely going to do anything. If you don't know how to use cover, you're going to eat dirt without ECM or with.

Edited by hanitora, 04 November 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[SamizdatCowboy]

1) Missiles go through terrain on ARRIVAL as well. This is especially noticeable on Forest Colony if you try to use the islands as cover.

2) This idea that 'all you have to do is use cover' ignores 1) missiles currently launch at a sharp incline, allowing them to fly over most cover and 2) the previously mentioned terrain bug. Right now it is almost impossible to find adequate cover.

3) Regarding 'stealth attack:' These maps are fairly small, and with those lightning quick jenners running around, good luck sneaking up on anyone. Given how hard it is to kill jenners, by the time you've "killed the spotter" much of your team is either heavily damaged or dead.

Edited by SamizdatCowboy, 04 November 2012 - 03:52 PM.

[Quxudica]

hanitora, on 04 November 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

No and Jesus Christ, stop with the sandbox 1v2 counting as 1v1 already.

Somehow it's less effort now for 1 guy to keep a dude on lock and the other to hover his mouse over dude while holding down the fire button than it is for 1 guy to hold down his fire button while holding his mouse over a dude. Blows my mind.
No you aren't a special snowflake who puts in the extra effort and has super skillz superiour to everyone else because you use a gauss rifle to heatshot noobz while popping over a ridge repeatedly.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I don't have a gausscat, I have an LRM boat, Jenner, and Streak Cat/LRM hybrid and pug with all of them - yes it is not that difficult to effectively use LRMs. the boat pilot is essentially just playing a quick time event, the only things you really need to keep in mind are your range and terrain obstacles. There just isn't much to using LRMs and honestly its very boring despite how incredibly effective it is. Sitting just behind a hill top and jumping to launch missiles is not remotely taxing, if your brawlers or scout or whoever is even half awake they can keep a lock easily enough.

On the flip side, holding a lock with tag on my Jenner is not hard. Find someone slightly separated and paint until dead, rinse repeat. bug out if it gets to hot. If I get into a fun scrap with another light and have even inconsistent lrm support fire I essentially win automatically unless I was severely damaged already. I don't find that particularly rewarding honestly, getting a kill when the other guy had zero chance of beating me is not fun or enjoyable even on the winning side.

My hybrid can put enough pain on anything between 180-270 meters to cripple them, I've one shot ravens and commandos with it - its more effort then pure lrm boating but it's still the game essentially aiming for me - I'm little more then a pilot for an nearly automated weapons platform.

The fact that LRMs take more then one person to use well is not really a relevant defense when neither of those two players has to do much more then "exist" and press "r". I really want something to be added to make LRMs and SSRMs harder to use, active counter measures like chaff or flares or something, something to make me think when I engage with them. At the moment then only real "depth" I've found is A: shotgunning lrms (not remotely hard) and B: Using a burst of one pods LRM with my hybrid cat to soak ams fire for my ssrms when I really need the damage on target.

Gauss are not difficult to use, they have no bullet drop, no windage, no heat management and a high travel velocity, but the person still has to aim them to hit the same spot repeatedly and that requries some effort, more then it takes for me to stagger fire auto-aimed missiles while sweeping a red circle over a square every couple seconds to maintain a lock.

[Panzerjotun]

I disagree. LRMs are not crazy. What is crazy is lack of tactical awareness. If you stay at 800m picking your nose in LOS then expect to get lit up. Everything seems OP when the situation is working against you.

[Kavoh]

Massive LRM spam is a bit over the top yes, but a buff to AMS will RUIN anyone carrying 1~ LRM on them for a small firepower increase. If its increased more than now, anything other than boating with LRMs will be useless. But something with a little more thought needs to be done, although it should be more thought out than just a "Buff this/Nerf that".

[Strongbad]

I find it dull that anti-missile weapons don't do jack, I can have them firing at a cluster coming towards me, and they kill just a few..

They need to have a longer range to give them time to engage.

[hanitora]

Quxudica, on 04 November 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

Sorry to burst your bubble but I don't have a gausscat, I have an LRM boat, Jenner, and Streak Cat/LRM hybrid and pug with all of them - yes it is not that difficult to effectively use LRMs. the boat pilot is essentially just playing a quick time event, the only things you really need to keep in mind are your range and terrain obstacles. There just isn't much to using LRMs and honestly its very boring despite how incredibly effective it is. Sitting just behind a hill top and jumping to launch missiles is not remotely taxing, if your brawlers or scout or whoever is even half awake they can keep a lock easily enough.

On the flip side, holding a lock with tag on my Jenner is not hard. Find someone slightly separated and paint until dead, rinse repeat. bug out if it gets to hot. If I get into a fun scrap with another light and have even inconsistent lrm support fire I essentially win automatically unless I was severely damaged already. I don't find that particularly rewarding honestly, getting a kill when the other guy had zero chance of beating me is not fun or enjoyable even on the winning side.

My hybrid can put enough pain on anything between 180-270 meters to cripple them, I've one shot ravens and commandos with it - its more effort then pure lrm boating but it's still the game essentially aiming for me - I'm little more then a pilot for an nearly automated weapons platform.

The fact that LRMs take more then one person to use well is not really a relevant defense when neither of those two players has to do much more then "exist" and press "r". I really want something to be added to make LRMs and SSRMs harder to use, active counter measures like chaff or flares or something, something to make me think when I engage with them. At the moment then only real "depth" I've found is A: shotgunning lrms (not remotely hard) and B: Using a burst of one pods LRM with my hybrid cat to soak ams fire for my ssrms when I really need the damage on target.

Gauss are not difficult to use, they have no bullet drop, no windage, no heat management and a high travel velocity, but the person still has to aim them to hit the same spot repeatedly and that requries some effort, more then it takes for me to stagger fire auto-aimed missiles while sweeping a red circle over a square every couple seconds to maintain a lock.

So what the hell is your point? The game mechanics are too easy? It doesn't seem to stop you from playing what you claim to be the most noskill types of mechs.
You make random suggestions without thinking about the implications they have on the technology for the sake of personal preference. If I were to interpret what you suggest, you're essentially suggesting that LRMs should be made into something that you can't aim and should never carry so you can laugh at all the idiots who actually use it.

Mechwarrior isn't a mechanically hard game or a simulator, it's supposed to be a fun game. And someone carrying LRMs as a secondary (like Bushwacker builds for example) does not want to spend all their time microing their LRMs while trying to get into brawling range. Yea, piloting a missile boat is easy and boring if you're a derpy pub player because not only are 99% of the people completely incapable of using cover but they don't even carry AMS - here is my solution, don't pilot a damn LRM boat. Your ideas are bad.

Quote

I find it dull that anti-missile weapons don't do jack, I can have them firing at a cluster coming towards me, and they kill just a few..

AMS works based on the LRM being shot at you. If it is a 5, it does jack **** with AMS. If it's 10, it does a little. But most boats (and non boats) mount an LRM 15 or 20. So that's why it appears that AMS does nothing. Because there is so damn many missiles to begin with.

Edited by hanitora, 04 November 2012 - 04:10 PM.

[slackermagee]

I've only had problems with LRM boats on Caustic, and usually that's my own damn fault for not playing the map right. If you keep yourself in the open or outside of a walking distance to a piece of vertical cover... that's on you.

[Allekatrase]

Strongbad, on 04 November 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

I find it dull that anti-missile weapons don't do jack, I can have them firing at a cluster coming towards me, and they kill just a few..

They need to have a longer range to give them time to engage.

They're actually much more effective if positioned correctly as a team. I've noticed this when I play a brawler and I'm much closer to the front line. I'll take position behind cover fairly far forward and as the LRMs fly overhead towards the people in the back it gives the AMS a lot more time to shoot them down. Combined with the other AMS that is hopefully on your team it can be somewhat effective. Still not enough given the vast numbers of LRMs I usually run into.

[Kaijin]

Strongbad, on 04 November 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

I find it dull that anti-missile weapons don't do jack, I can have them firing at a cluster coming towards me, and they kill just a few..

They need to have a longer range to give them time to engage.

Compare to everyone on your team using AMS before you knock it. It's very effective...teamwork.

[verybad]

It's lot of fun going after LRM boats in striker/cavalry mechs. I love CODing them with a Jenner or Dragon.

Sure they're effective, but they're hardly the only effective weapon in the game. Just maintain cover, and use coms to have more than one mech go after a missile boat at a time. It's a laugh to watch them panic when you've got too Lights CODing them with SRMs and lasers burning them up.

[Sarevos]

hanitora, on 04 November 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

You don't need ECM, and ECM is barely going to do anything. If you don't know how to use cover, you're going to eat dirt without ECM or with.

Detection is 90% of these battles if they cant figure out where you are until youre in close range i think it will make a huge difference

[Orion ji]

See kids, isn't an arms race fun?

[Keifomofutu]

Particle Man, on 04 November 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

There's already a built in mechanic to combat LRMs. Play as a team, kill the spotters, and take cover.


it's very simple.

You say that like jenners don't last longer than Atlas in combat(short of 6 racks of ssrms).