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TWIN joystick support - Please, please implement this


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#21 CyBerkut

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 08:59 AM

View PostRedburn, on 12 November 2011 - 05:00 AM, said:

Speaking of "other" controller support...

What about the ability to integrate touchscreen support, similar to say ... DCS A-10C and SCS Helios ... Where we can design and implement 'virtual' cockpits that can send keyboard commands to the interface instead of via the keyboard and joystick/HOTAS. My simpit could then take on a whole new use instead of when I just want to fly.....

EDIT - Woundn't be great to retask Comms, or weapon groups on the fly? What about C3 integration and control? The possibilities are endless "IF" we are given a large canvas of control options and configuration options.



Indeed! +1

#22 Tweaks

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 05:23 PM

Just get some pedal and use that to turn, joystick to torso twist and aim. Push both pedals to trigger jumpjets. Problem solved.

Edited by Tweaks, 22 November 2011 - 05:24 PM.


#23 CaveMan

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 05:45 PM

Why stop at two? Support as many input devices as the operating system will recognize!

#24 The Herald of Darkness

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:23 AM

View PostCaveMan, on 22 November 2011 - 05:45 PM, said:

Why stop at two? Support as many input devices as the operating system will recognize!


Exactly. That's basically what I'm suggesting. But since keyboard and mouse can already be detected along with a joystick, I was suggesting that a second stick is the most useful extra device to add.

Pedals would be good too.

And just speaking personally here, but I don't think it should detect individual devices.

It should detect INPUTS. As in, you press what you want to use and it registers that control, no matter what device it is a part of.

Why do I suggest this? Because Mechwarrior 2 won't detect my PPjoy virtual joystick because it only seems to detect specific joystick types.

#25 DCleric

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 11:05 AM

So far all of the games support pedals, I am curious if you can run pedals and twin sticks as according to the books that's the control system but to be honest I set a HOTAS system up so my feet and left hand control general steering and my right hand stick controls all torso movement. Now that I have to replace my pedals I wonder if I can set jump jets to toe brakes.

#26 WhiteTiger

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:59 PM

I prefer the joystick, throttle and rudder pedals for that true simulation effect. It might take a little time getting used to coordinating, but you can't beat simulation feel of controlling your mech almost like it was in the novels.

#27 I R O N

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 07:04 PM

give me "steel battlion" style controls ;)

#28 Majikthise

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:32 AM

In fact, let me use my steel battalion controller (Im sure an xbox1 port to USB + power is an easy self build)
:-D

#29 autogyro

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:09 AM

View PostDCleric, on 26 November 2011 - 11:05 AM, said:

So far all of the games support pedals, I am curious if you can run pedals and twin sticks as according to the books that's the control system but to be honest I set a HOTAS system up so my feet and left hand control general steering and my right hand stick controls all torso movement. Now that I have to replace my pedals I wonder if I can set jump jets to toe brakes.


Please have a read of this link.

Basically, it works like this (as Tweaks said):

Your right joystick controls the weapons and torso twisting. By activating a function, it also enters a physical mode for punching, and the joystick can translate laterally and vertically.

Your left arm joystick controls the secondary weapons if the 'Mech has a left arm joystick.

Your throttle controls the speed of the 'Mech, MASC and reversing.

Your pedals control turning of the 'Mech, and stamping down on the pedals ignites the jump jets, whilst the pedals then allow you to move and orient the 'Mech using jump jets. Stamping on the again disables the jump jets.

#30 Lina Thoren

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:07 PM

Add my vote to this. I've got a Saitek Cyborg Evo that I love, with a second on order. Using both (they're easily converted to work with either hand) would be sweet.

#31 Project_Mercy

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 01:18 PM

I'm not sure a second joystick would be handy. Assuming you're using a HOTAS, then your other hand is on the throttle. Steel Batallion had foot pedals for accel/decel

It's much easier to either use one of the Hats or alternate axis on the throttle to torso twist, and/or use ruddar pedals if you want a separate peripheral to do it. In fact, I would imagine if I was building a mech IRL, I would probably use ruddar pedals for the torso.

Either way, I've always used a hat on the throttle for torso twist, left for left, right for right, and up/down for center. I actually won a Sidewinder Joystick in a MW2 tourney a long time ago (obviously), and I hated the joy twist. Hats are where it's at.

#32 Project_Mercy

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 03:08 PM

As an interesting addenum, here's the cockpit diagram for the old Virtual World Battletech booths. You can turn the pedals on to steer the mech, and leave the joystick for aim control. You actually had to turn the torso by pressing a button up by the display (labeled #6)

Posted Image

#33 plodder

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:08 PM

View PostSyvenn, on 03 February 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

one thing you could do is get a program like xpadder, and just map out all the keys. thats how I was able to play that mech warrior crysis mod with two joysticks. Takes a bit of time and test runs to do though, but well worth it if you ask me. I find some fun in just mapping them out and then taking a test drive in the first place. Makes the game five times as fun, and I feel that much more immersed.


Take a look at these posts

View PostCyBerkut, on 10 February 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:


Most PC joystcks are aimed at the mass market / lowest common denominator. As such, they are made of low cost components. That nearly always translates to poor durability and fewer options.

Given that market reality, you are faced with several possibilities...

- Give up on using joysticks, and go with something else (ie. Mouse).
- Purchase low end products and then modify them to better suit your desires.
- Research the higher end products to find one that suits your desires (if one even exists). AKA The "get off your wallet" approach.
- Start from scratch and build your own, making it just the way you want it to be. [Small universal joints (cheap on eBay) make good gimbals to build upon.]

"Wimpy" (sticks) is very much in the eye (hand) of the beholder. If you search the controllers-related sections of various flight sim forums, you will almost certainly find modifications that people have done to change the resistance levels on their controllers of choice. Most often, that will be a matter of somebody changing/adding stiffer springs to their joystick. Sometimes it is rubber bands/o-rings added in, or replacing the existing springs in a stick's gimbal mechanism. A Saitek X-52 stick can be stiffened up by adding some sort of spacer(s) between the top of the centering spring and the bottom of the grip. This compresses the spring more, making it push harder upon the plastic beveled ring that rides withing the base's hole, making the stick less "wimpy". There is a good video on Youtube showing how one guy made said spacers from the top covers of CD blank packs. Be aware that increasing spring pressures can cause gimbals or centering mechanisms to wear out or break faster... you are altering design forces but not reinforcing the parts under load to compensate for it.

I have seen mods illustrated on forums where people have taken the piston mechnisms used as shock absorbers on Radio Controlled trucks/cars and used them as dampeners on joysticks. That approach might actually get you where you want to go. With a Saitek X-52 stick, for instance, you could attach 2 such pistons to the sticks shaft, anchoring the other ends of the pistons to bolts in the base's corner holes (the ones that let you mount the stick's base upon a board). Pick any two adjacent holes on the base and you will get dampening on both the X and Y axis of movement.

There are some sticks that have heavier centering mechanisms than others. Some throttle controllers are stiffer than others. I couldn't say which ones, if any, would feel good to you. You can probably get a pretty good idea though, by checking out some flight sim forums. You'll see folks complaining about 'this one's too light' or 'that one's too stiff'. If you want stiff springs, look for the ones that people whine about being too heavy, and you'll probably find what you want.

It comes down to, deciding what you want to have, and what resources (money/time/effort) you are willing to expend upon it. The quickest way to get there is most likely picking a controller that has the buttons, etc. that you want, and that lends itself to being mounted upon a surface --- and then modifying the centering mechanism to suit your taste.

The best way to get exactly what you want is to start from scratch and build your own. It can be a lot of work, and a steep learning curve to climb, but you can end up with something that fits your hand(s) exactly, has all of the buttons, switches, etc. that you want, and centering forces / resistance that you can set exactly where you want. You won't get it done in one day, but hey... MW:O isn't due out next week, either....

Take your time

View Postplodder, on 12 February 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

Xpadder? Well I went to look at it. Seems to be what I was looking for, but there was a comment that claims that it does not work on all online games, that it is blocked. I would hate to think I had my solution, only to found it blocked out..


Then

View PostOrayn, on 14 February 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:


You could also use any combination of sticks, throttles, pedals, etc. all together with PPJoy, which allows you to map all of the axes however you please. PPJoy is also a much lower level solution than Xpadder, since it's recognized as a single (virtual) input device of its own, just like any other controller or joystick.


PPjoy might be my ticket.

#34 Lina Thoren

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:17 PM

View Postplodder, on 29 February 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

PPjoy might be my ticket.

Just two problems:

1) PPJoy won't work with the home version of Win7, and

2) The developer quit working on it last year. :D

Wasn't aware of xpaddder, though, so thank you for that. :) I'll give it a try.

#35 Duke Pitt

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:38 PM

When I first started off I used to have a really hard time with turning and not torso twisting at the same time, it took practice to get my technique right. So I can totally see why you'd want an alternative method, I wonder if you could get a port for a Steel Battalion controller layout to interface with a computer... probably not :).

#36 NeoTechni

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 01:27 AM

View PostThe Herald of Darkness, on 03 November 2011 - 05:28 AM, said:

Two sticks is better than one. PPjoy doesn't seem to work on Windows 7 64 bit, so I can't use that to achieve this.


Have you tried xpadder?


View PostRedburn, on 12 November 2011 - 05:00 AM, said:

Speaking of "other" controller support...

What about the ability to integrate touchscreen support, similar to say ... DCS A-10C and SCS Helios ... Where we can design and implement 'virtual' cockpits that can send keyboard commands to the interface instead of via the keyboard and joystick/HOTAS. My simpit could then take on a whole new use instead of when I just want to fly.....

EDIT - Woundn't be great to retask Comms, or weapon groups on the fly? What about C3 integration and control? The possibilities are endless "IF" we are given a large canvas of control options and configuration options.


As an Android developer, who has done this already (my program works with all Windows programs), I'd be willing to make a MechWarrior-specific program.

My program acts as a glorified telnet client, and the server sends virtual keyboard/mouse events to whatever program is in-focus

Edited by NeoTechni, 01 March 2012 - 01:32 AM.


#37 Chapel976

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:05 AM

View PostThe Herald of Darkness, on 03 November 2011 - 05:28 AM, said:

I've found that I absolutely hate using a joystick twist axis for controlling mech torso twist.

I used to hate it too. then I mapped torso twist to the joystick and leg movement to the twist axis...
the legs respond more slowly anyway...

#38 plodder

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 09:10 AM

View PostLina Thoren, on 29 February 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

Just two problems:

1) PPJoy won't work with the home version of Win7, and

2) The developer quit working on it last year. :)

Wasn't aware of xpaddder, though, so thank you for that. :) I'll give it a try.

Oh, well , Thanks. I did here somewhere, that xpadder will not work if a site does not allow it, so keep that in mind if you intend to buy it. :)
Thanks, uncle danno

#39 Lina Thoren

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 07:00 PM

View Postplodder, on 03 March 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Oh, well , Thanks. I did here somewhere, that xpadder will not work if a site does not allow it, so keep that in mind if you intend to buy it. :blink:
Thanks, uncle danno

Well, if it doesn't work, I've wasted $10 on worse. :) Thanks fr the heads-up, though.

#40 Kedoyn

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:40 PM

I hadn't even thought of dual joysticks till I read this thread. As someone who currently doesn't own any controller gear and is planning on purchasing controller(s) specifically for this game it would be great to know if dual joystick might be supported prior to my purchase. I was assuming either a joy+throttle or maybe joy+gamepad (I do own a 3 different lefthand gamepads) but dual joystick alread sounds like the best option if it was supported





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