48 replies to this topic

[Card]

I don't see much Raven 'hate', but I'm going to be honest with you and say that among all the Lights, I find them easiest to kill.

I drive a fast Dragon, so it's not unusual for me to have to double-back to kill some scout that's on our base. When I see it's a Jenner I say "This is going to take awhile." When I see it's a Commando I say "I'm going to be tied up here for a few." When I see it's a Raven I say "I'll be right back, guys."

[Adridos]

It should be mostly because of the fact Raven is in the current trial rotation as the light mech and as such is the best target of suiciders. A lot of people see Ravens failing miserably because of this and generally have bad attitude towards them.

[Tarys]

i also drive the 3L and i really like it. Sadly the other 2 variants are way behind it ...
And regarding hates towards Raven ... maybe because "we" can still do this:

[Stripes]

The only role i can think for Raven - dedicated Light class Sniper with ER PPC or Gauss. In other roles? There, we have a 'mech better suited for that, such as Commando and Jenner.

[Valaska]

I piloted the Raven before Open Beta, good mech. I can honestly say as a jenner pilot now, the only light mecht hat annoys me is a Raven because they take SO LONG to kill msot of the time.Erupting a torso of ammo is pretty hard on it. and its legs are SKINNY lol.

[Moldycrow]

If anything, I hate/love the raven (depending on which side of it I am on) because of it's huge hip section. I think the biggest problem with it is that it cannot twist out of rear torso fire because of the fact that hits on the hips count as RCT hits. Combine this with its relatively low speed for a light, and well...easy kills.

Edited by Moldycrow, 05 November 2012 - 09:08 AM.

[Imagine Dragons]

I find that Commandos are easier to kill than Ravens, mainly because Commandos, unlike Jenners and Ravens, have a huge surface area to get munched on when the Commando fires.

[Staffan]

RedHairDave, on 05 November 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

also why the jenner is better, it can go faster.

Daycrist Bloodfang, on 05 November 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

Just barely faster than my Raven 3L which mounts a 295XL

I don't understand this argumentation at all. Both mechs are 35 tons and both have max engine size 300. The go exactly the same speed (only the raven comes with a smaller stock engine, but who pilots a stock mech if you can afford to customize it anyway?)

The difference between mechs are only hardpoint restrictions, max engine size and how they look (which is also important as it affects the size and location of the hitboxes). At least that's what I thought ...

I used to have a Raven and I loved it! I was using a 260 XL engine, making it slightly faster than a stock Jenner (surprice!) and still having enough weight left to mount an AC/2 for instance.

[Adridos]

Staffan, on 05 November 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

I don't understand this argumentation at all. Both mechs are 35 tons and both have max engine size 300. The go exactly the same speed (only the raven comes with a smaller stock engine, but who pilots a stock mech if you can afford to customize it anyway?)

The engine limit is calculated by the stock one, so Jenner must be faster than Raven.

[Coralld]

I love the Raven. Before the last wipe and after they came out with all the upgrade patch and stuff, I made a Raven 2X with four ML, Streak with one ton of ammo, AMS with one ton of ammo, upgraded to DHS and had a 1.5+ heat efficiency and Endo Steel and was able to drop in the biggest engine I could, maxed out its armor, and ended up with five tons left over which I could use to EASILY throw in ECM, BAP, and some other E-war device or more ammo or what ever as that would give me two tons left to play with. I'm not so sure you could pull that off in a Jenner with out gimping its combat performance.

Edited by Coralld, 05 November 2012 - 09:33 AM.

[Daycrist Bloodfang]

Stripes, on 05 November 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Dont know about "hate" but RVN in any variant are frowned upon in premades - low speed, compared to others light mechs, and absence of advanced electronics make him useless in any competition.
And he will reamin useless, if there will be no restriction's on BAP\ECM kind equipment.

Umm my 3L raven outruns Jenners and commandos try again.....who's slow?

[Roughneck45]

Daycrist Bloodfang, on 05 November 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

Umm my 3L raven outruns Jenners and commandos try again.....who's slow?

The raven, because it physically cannot take the largest engine the commado and jenner can.

[Imagine Dragons]

Adridos, on 05 November 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

The engine limit is calculated by the stock one, so Jenner must be faster than Raven.

There are two limiters to engine size.

1. The value of the stock engine rating times the weight class value limiter...
L= 1.6x M= 1.3x H= 1.2x A= 1.2x

2. The value of the total weight the mech can support times a constant (8.57***)...

I do believe light mechs have a weight class limiter of 1.6x the stock engine rating.

In which case the Raven AND the Jenner can hold engines higher than 300; 312 and 392 respectively from the 1st limiter.

BUT both are limited to 300 engines because of the 2nd limiter, which is 8.57x the weight of the mech's maximum supported weight, 8.57 x 35 = ~300

EDIT:

Wait, I have an old CBT email stating these numbers...

1.4x for Lights

1.3x for Mediums

1.2x for Heavies and Assaults...

There must be an exeception for the Raven then, it can mount a 300 somehow... I'm confused now...

Ooops... Ravens have 175 stock engines, not 195...

Edited by XenomorphZZ, 05 November 2012 - 11:56 AM.

[Tarys]

XenomorphZZ, on 05 November 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

There are two limiters to engine size.

1. The value of the stock engine rating times the weight class value limiter...
L= 1.6x M= 1.3x H= 1.2x A= 1.2x

2. The value of the total weight the mech can support times a constant (8.57***)...

I do believe light mechs have a weight class limiter of 1.6x the stock engine rating.

In which case the Raven AND the Jenner can hold engines higher than 300; 312 and 392 respectively from the 1st limiter.

BUT both are limited to 300 engines because of the 2nd limiter, which is 8.57x the weight of the mech's maximum supported weight, 8.57 x 35 = ~300

sry, you are wrong. they changed engine limit to be based upon stock engine ... that is why 2 Raven variants pretty much suck and the 3L is still good. so a Raven can right now not use the 300 XL like Jenner and Commando.
In fact 3L can use 295 and the other two only 245 ...

[GeneralArmchair]

XenomorphZZ, on 05 November 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

Others have suggested that Targeting Computers, BAP, GECM, etc... should go into an "EWAR" hardpoint, and while every mech would have 1, certain mechs would have more... it would be much more interesting like this...

This is the best approach to EWAR in my opinion. Give everyone a single slot. Give the raven and other EWAR specialists many. The fewest EWAR slots I can see on a raven variant is 2. I would expect most ravens to be covered in more EWAR slots than they can fill.

Tarys, on 05 November 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

sry, you are wrong. they changed engine limit to be based upon stock engine ... that is why 2 Raven variants pretty much suck and the 3L is still good. so a Raven can right now not use the 300 XL like Jenner and Commando.
In fact 3L can use 295 and the other two only 245 ...

IMO, basing the max engine off of the stock engine is just dumb. It leads to situations precisely like this. You will have several variants with good hardpoint loadouts that are reduced to trash because they can't mount the engine they should be allowed. Max engine weight is much better decided by mech's tonnage limit. If they really want to force trends, then limit it by chassis instead of by variant. There is no reason at all for one raven to always be able to outrun all other raven variants.

It won't be long before they start choosing the hero mech's engines so that they enjoy a huge engine advantage over their non-MC counterparts. I believe the YLW already enjoys a small advantage over the currently implemented centurions. As soon as piranha realizes that they can grant their hero mechs huge advantages merely by allowing them more freedom with engines, they're gonna exploit the hell out of that.

[Staffan]

Thanks for the info regarding the current engine size limits!

And I agree that engine limit based on stock engine feels silly. I would also like the limit to be per chassis rather then per variant, but based merely on tonnage is a bit boring, since all 35 ton mechs will go the same speed. I do not mind the Raven being a bit slower than the Jenner, as long as we all know what the limits are (and it should be clearly specified in the mech lab when you purchase a mech too)!

And regarding hero mech exploits, lets just hope for the best.

[Sneecko]

lately , what i have seen in most of my games is that raven pilot heading towards opposite force , beeing teared appart and after that disconnect... so thats why i do not like to see ravens on battlefield right now

[Jman5]

Raalic, on 05 November 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

Yeah, it's a mistake to allow any chassis to equip ECM and BAP. Really should be limited to the Raven and eventually clan scouts.

My concern is that all you would be doing is reversing the roles. Suddenly the Raven becomes the "correct" choice for light mechs and the jenner is the noob choice.

XenomorphZZ, on 05 November 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

Others have suggested that Targeting Computers, BAP, GECM, etc... should go into an "EWAR" hardpoint, and while every mech would have 1, certain mechs would have more... it would be much more interesting like this...

Extra EWAR hardpoints sounds like an excellent idea for the raven.

[H3rtz]

PGI clearly hate the Raven if they give ECM to all 'mechs.

[Daycrist Bloodfang]

Roughneck45, on 05 November 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

The raven, because it physically cannot take the largest engine the commado and jenner can.

Sooo since they can field a 300XL against my raven's 295XL that's an amazing difference?

and most of the times You rarely see Commandos mounting 300s because they like to zombie and can't handle the weight