Mister Zeus, on 06 November 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:
Keep in mind that there are other advantages to double heat sinks than simply disspiating more heat (2x or 1.4x) than a single heat sink.
1.) Mounting 20 double heat sinks in order to accomplish what 28 single heat sinks does still nets you 8 extra tons to work with. Say hello to backup weapons on the Awesome 9M so now it is actually much more effective at close range than the stock 8Q.
2.) As noted in the Nov. 6 patch commentary, Single Heat sinks increase maximum heat scale by 1 per single heat sink, while double heat sinks increase maximum heat scale by 2 per double heat sink. 20 double heat sinks thus increase maximum heat scale by 40, while 28 single heat sinks only increase it by 28. Thus, the Awesome 9M not only has 8 addition tons to play with from above, but it also can take more heat points before shut down (and thus gains more from Heat Containment than the 8Q).
3.) Engine heat sinks. A cool running mech mounting only DHS in the engine gets the best of both worlds. Heat dissipation increases by 40%, maximum heat scale gets twice the boost, and you don't end up using up any additional space to do so. Remember, the 9M is mounting a 320XL engine, that can hold 12 DHS out of the 20 DHS on it, so it ends up using up 24 (8*3) crit spaces for heat sinks, while the 8Q's 240 engine can only hold 9 of it's 28 heat sinks, leaving 19 crit spaces for heat sinks. A whole whopping 5 crit spaces extra are needed over the 8Q.
Now, on to my personal experiences. The first mech I built up in this most recent reset was an 8Q. I upgraded it to double heat sinks and ERPPCs as soon as I could, at first settling on 3 ERPPCs and 2 Large Lasers (in the right arm) as backup close range weapons.
She's only carrying 17 DHS at this time, but I can easily fire all 3 ERPPCs 2-3 times in rapid chain fire succession before I have to pace my fire. The amount of time I have to spend adjusting aim at a moving target more than allows me to keep my heat in check. The additional range of the ERPPC over the standard models also gives me a huge advantage on the battlefield, ripping LRM boats and Gauss-apults out of their comfort zone as they start taking hard hitting long range fire beyond the range of their weapons. I also upgraded its engine to a 275, thus carrying 2 extra heat sinks over the standard 8Q in the engine. Since they are now double, that works out great for me, and my 8Q now has endo-steel as well to fill out the legs, CT, and head slots as well as the odd slots in the arms and the right torso.
Does she ever have heating problems? Yes, just like a standard 8Q would if rushed by an enemy in close range and forced to fight at a pace not set by the Awesome. But that's why I carry my secondary weapons. I can engage at close range at near redline heat capacity, but still constantly chain fire my twin large lasers. The 9M can do the same with its pulse lasers and Streak SRM-2s.
What I'm hearing from the OP is that they are using the mythical "ineffectiveness" of the 9M as a reason to get DHS, which I and many others like me judged were broken as all holy hell in CBT, up to their CBT power level. As others have pointed out in this thread already, this will shatter the holy trinity of weapons that CBT originally introduced and you will see the same builds that plagued the majority of Inner Sphere mech design through 3050 TRO and beyond.
Example: Look at the 3050 TRO and find one mech other than the Hunchback that still retains its AC/20 instead of replacing it with a Gauss Rifle. Now look in the 3055 TRO and find a mech with an AC/20 other than the Thunder that doesn't instead have a Gauss Rifle and ERPPC combo with standard 10 DHS, or 2 ERPPCs, Gauss Rifle, and only 15 DHS.
It is painfully obvious to me, and I believe the developers at PGI, that such designs ruined the spirit of the weapon holy trinity, replacing the balance of high heat weapons and low heat ballistics, with high heat weapons, a handful of double heat sinks, and the magically delicious gauss rifle which broke all the rules. Thankfully PGI didn't see fit to increase the Gauss Rifle's ammo by 50% like it did for the majority of other weapons, or we'd see even more of the damn things.
Long story short, DHS were broken in CBT, PGI is fixing them to better balance this game. 1.4 heat dissipation might be too low. Be patient and focus on how the game plays rather than the nuts and bolts CBT construction rules that we all know and love from our childhood.
I would love to see the chassis you mount 20 DHS to. You may have the tonnage, but your critical slots went bye-bye about 3-4 DHSs ago. You're talking 30 critical slots taken up by those DHS and to only get 1.4 heat dissipation is just complete ********. You're paying for this upgrade as the initial 1.5M cost, the 12K per DHS you add, the repair cost increase when you get cored and the loss of 3 critical slots. The balance is there already, you don't need to limit it's functionality.
That holy trinity of weapons are broke even as you type that ****. Energy weapons are nowhere near as effective/efficient as the other two weapon systems. By weight, heat generation and damage dealt energy weapons are 3rd rate in all categories.
I'm getting really tired of people using ERPPC's in sniping mode as a reason to not have full heat dissipation. I wouldn't need much heat dissipation if I was popping off the random shot either but for all the other energy weapons it's impossible to have a high dps:hps ratio by comparison to other weapon systems. I want to know how people can figure that lasers are all that powerful. 2 SRM6's far exceed the dps:hps of a 6 pack of medium lasers. All weapon systems should be able to function reasonably well, and most energy weapons fall far short of that.
As for the boost to heat capacity... Why not reverse it? Double the heat dissipation efficiency and increase the containment by 40%? You're saying it's ok that your DOUBLE heat sink only dissipates 40% more heat from my single heat sink because you get twice as much capacity from it. Please, bash your head against a brick wall and try to knock some sense into yourself. PGI added a feature to something that wasn't there, and quite frankly is just this side of useless. I'd rather it just work like it's supposed to rather than this hand-me-down consolation effect. With five double heat sinks I get a whopping 2 ML shots instead of a much needed double dissipation rate.
Sorry to sound hostile, but everyone is concentrating on the sniper/fire support Awesome and not the medium mechs that are up in the mix brawling, or trying to. We have wholly energy dependent variants and every energy weapon creates a dps:hps unbalance. You simply cannot find a firing design with energy weapons that can go the distance. They're all burst damage/burst heat and they're a bit light on the damage. This is where the whole heat dissipation is really needed. The light mechs have the advantage of speed/maneuverability and can employ hit and run tactics (sometimes), but my HBK is too slow to run away effectively, too lightly armored to stand face to face, and overheats from its over dependence on energy weapons. The assault mechs have the armor to stand there and take it for the most part, and pack enough of a punch to kill most things before heat really becomes an issue. The only all energy heavy mech I can think of is the Awesome, and it's role is quite different. HBK's and other energy heavy mechs depend on a heat dissipation that currently is already short and now PGI wants to make it even worse. This is the whole missile debacle on a different stage. Look at Caustic Valley! This map already has people overheating like mad and it's just gonna get worse with this "fix".
Edited by Xerxys, 20 November 2012 - 07:38 AM.
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Have multiple threads already in existence about
