174 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

Lyteros, on 17 November 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

TL;DR: They had it coming, we warned in the Closed Beta forums for ages => nobody cared and now they will suffer the consequence. But of course its all QQ, whining and we all should live in the dream of a soon™ perfect MWO.

As long as PGI tries to monetize a unfinished, in many parts even broken, game this trend will not continue or stop. They themself said... "minimum viable product".
And I see not really a financial emergency as reason to do it - they cashed out over 5 mil from founders.

IMHO the premature Open Beta will scare away more players then it has done them any good. Some of us have been telling this with analysis and lots of logic / experience since open beta, but noone seems to care. It's of course all just whine and will magically fix itself to perfection.

The people who blindly trust that everything will be good and this is beta (actually its not, no matter which deinfition of beta you use) are just avoiding the inconvenient reality. They feed their dreams of finally having a epic mechwarrior game, instead of contributing to achive this - by pointing out errors, mistake and missmanagement.

From my point of view and my available information PGIs decision making is horrible.

On one hand we have:

• No matchmaking
  
• No Community warfare
  
• less then half of the announced mechs are available for OB
  
• Only 1 game mode
  
• Severe issues with bugs and playability (netcode)
  
• Severe weapon imbalancing (heat - math does not lie.)

On the other hand they spend time to implement things like skins and cockpit swag items...

Who the hell will buy this stuff, if they decide not to "waste their time" on a unfinished / broken game?

These major issues are fixed step by step long after Open Beta now. Now when no more resets are there, when balancing etc. changes per patch. They still experiment with stuff, which they should have done in CB (Artemis shitstorm anyone?)

Who does set the priorities here? The classic TT Random Numbers Generator?

The first impression does count, as much as we like to see it otherwise. And its not like there is no competition for MWO, which does attrackt people to play it and may take everyone who deems MWO too unfinished to bother. And those people who are engaged elsewhere, does anyone see a reason to forfit all they have gained and achived - just to give MWO another try when it's improved?

The signs where there, now the evidence starts to pile up too - we'll see what comes of this in the future.

I don't know, and to be perfectly honest, I don't particularly care. All you said's true. All we've both said for so long's true. I feel I got my retail money's worth of entertainment, however, but once we get the premtime stopping magic button, I'll probably go idle for quite a long while, and my mech bucks won't be used until we get the quite, quite, quite obviously MC only clan mechs and clan gear. If even then.

Maybe once we have the legendary community warfare, clans, AND something else. For now, I'm reduced to grinding money with kong, and trawlng the forums.

[p4r4g0n]

zmeul, on 17 November 2012 - 03:56 AM, said:

on a side note
if you look at the number of users that voted in the pool created here: http://mwomercs.com/...son-its-coming/
it gives you a rough estimate on the numbers of the player base (active and interested in MWO) - 3231 members have cast votes

from 401078 user accounts only 0.8% (!) give a **** about the game ... that's bad

Looking just at those voting I believe will definitely lead to an erroneous conclusion about the "active" user base. Based on past experience, once you join a clan/guild/etc, players tend to limit their interaction to the groups forums and so on. Furthermore, many players never visit the forums or only do so infrequently and may have missed the polls.

Unfortunately, since they removed the counter on players playing online, we really have no way to accurately gauge the number of active users.

Appreciate your effort in tracking new account creation though, it at least provides some idea of what is happening currently.

Edit: FYI - I didn't bother to vote cos none of the poll options reflected what I thought about the 3rd person issue. Posted a comment on the feedback thread instead.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 17 November 2012 - 05:09 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

p4r4g0n, on 17 November 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

Looking just at those voting I believe will definitely lead to an erroneous conclusion about the "active" user base. Based on past experience, once you join a clan/guild/etc, players tend to limit their interaction to the groups forums and so on. Furthermore, many players never visit the forums or only do so infrequently and may have missed the polls.

Unfortunately, since they removed the counter on players playing online, we really have no way to accurately gauge the number of active users.

Appreciate your effort in tracking new account creation though, it at least provides some idea of what is happening currently.

Edit: FYI - I didn't bother to vote cos none of the poll options reflected what I thought about the 3rd person issue. Posted a comment on the feedback thread instead.

The forum has around 500 regular posters. When something goes above 500 voters, you know there are a whole lot of players who are taking the time not only reading the forum, but linking each other to topics.

So it's a very good way to measure what's going on.

[p4r4g0n]

Vassago Rain, on 17 November 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:

The forum has around 500 regular posters. When something goes above 500 voters, you know there are a whole lot of players who are taking the time not only reading the forum, but linking each other to topics.

So it's a very good way to measure what's going on.

In so far as response to an issue is concerned, absolutely agree. I was specifically referring to zmeul's conclusion about the "active user base" though.

[Vassago Rain]

p4r4g0n, on 17 November 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

In so far as response to an issue is concerned, absolutely agree. I was specifically referring to zmeul's conclusion about the "active user base" though.

I notice a severe dip in 'active users' whenever we get terrible patches, or go long enough without new content. How? You end up playing against or with the same players a lot

[Johnny Morgan]

Alex Wolfe, on 06 November 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

I'd say that's a big part of it, yes.

"Hey guys I want to play this new game, is it fun?"

"Kind of, but first you'll need to spend a few days grinding credits on an underpowered mech with terrible heat efficiency and no fighting chance vs. a custom config, while not receiving any XP and not being able to modify it in any way, or spend money on a completely run-of-the-mill mech you'd be able to buy a dozen of in your second week anyway".

"Gee whiz this sure sounds like a game I'd like to play!"

Blake-damn-it .

or spend 6 bucks and get some MC and buy a mech..... totally forgot to add that point.\

If you want it for free you have to expect to put some time in.... that being said the trial mechs should allow some customization to hook new players.

New player experience needs a lot of work.

[Chemie]

Vassago Rain, on 17 November 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

I notice a severe dip in 'active users' whenever we get terrible patches, or go long enough without new content. How? You end up playing against or with the same players a lot

This. Up to 2 weeks ago, I would play all night and every name was different. Last night, it was the same names over and over. In fact, we started to remember the AFK and suiciders so during count-down there was a mini-game of recall around which ones, on which side were the grievers.

Edited by Chemie, 17 November 2012 - 05:48 AM.

[p4r4g0n]

Chemie, on 17 November 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

This. Up to 2 weeks ago, I would play all night and every name was different. Last night, it was the same names over and over. In fact, we started to remember the AFK and suiciders so during count-down there was a mini-game of recall around which ones, on which side were the grievers.

Could be due to the hooha about 3rd person ... gotta say I wasn't playing much yesterday myself.

Johnny Morgan, on 17 November 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

New player experience needs a lot of work.

Absolutely agree. Evaluating new user experience is one of the reasons I'm basically PUGging solo and I've posted in the Ask the Devs 25 asking about this.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 17 November 2012 - 05:58 AM.

[zmeul]

p4r4g0n, on 17 November 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

as I said, it's a rough estimate
and those ppl who do not visit the forums and don't voice their opinion and experience in a BETA, I have "kind words" to them

this is a BETA stage afteral, the game is still in development and if we allow the devs to take the game in their direction without our feedback .. it will end up in smoke
do not forget the game is to be played and enjoyed by us, not by suits around a conference table

Edited by zmeul, 17 November 2012 - 07:11 AM.

[p4r4g0n]

Saw somewhere someone posting that they didn't realize there were guides on the forum until they'd played a couple of months ... had to lolz at that.

[flackee]

Graph of forum account registrations over time, has no bearing on number of people playing or the number of people that were even accepted into closed beta, etc. Despite that, it was interesting to me.

[Lyteros]

flackee, on 19 November 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Graph of forum account registrations over time, has no bearing on number of people playing or the number of people that were even accepted into closed beta, etc. Despite that, it was interesting to me.

I may be wrong, but I tought forum accounts are linked to the ingame account and both are automatically created when you sign up.

[Vassago Rain]

flackee, on 19 November 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Graph of forum account registrations over time, has no bearing on number of people playing or the number of people that were even accepted into closed beta, etc. Despite that, it was interesting to me.

You can't make an account for the game without making one for the forum.

[Card]

Great data and good analysis, but I don't think it was the lack of new user registrations that prompted them to incorporate 3rd person. I think that was because the retention rate among new users was horrible.

Remember, PGI has access to much more detailed data than we'll ever see, and I'll bet one of their KPI's was how long new users spent playing the game, how many drops they did, that sort of thing. I don't know what that number was, but it was apparently so bad that it made them willing to reverse long-held positions, and look for an immediate crash-course fix for the low retention rate.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Back before OB and the loss of the Online numbers, we were routinely between 2000-3000 online during my usual sessions.

Now, this is all just speculation on my part:

1. Assuming the average gamer plays from 1-2 hours
2. Average gamers play 2-3 times a week
3. and that minimum server load never drops below 1500 at any given time...

so 12 2 hr periods in a day
2.5 days a week
minimum 1500 unique users:

Active player base of 45,000.

We know that a minimum of 67,710 potential players are in through Founders
and I imagine that at least 1/4 of that many more have paid cash for MC or premium time since.

For a single server, that's a relatively strong player base picture.

Now, we are a long way from EVE type numbers: http://eve-offline.n...ver=tranquility

But, considering the state of things, we're not that bad.


I would like to see a reverse to the information policy though. It seems every time we look around that less information is being provided rather than more. It creates a negative feedback loop in the community. At least with open and honest numbers, we would see the truth and there would be less speculation. Without being able to point at real statistics, you can't provide a reasonable counter argument to against speculation in the wrong direction.

In these things, perception is reality and the perception is that any information that is hidden or was once available but is now hidden is being kept so because of the negative impact. Well, the impact is negative regardless unless the information is shared so that we can point to it and see otherwise.

[Suko]

Devils Advocate, on 06 November 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

I can tell you that while I really want to play this game with my personal friends I haven't even mentioned it to them for fear that the trial mechs will drive them off.

Similarly, I haven't brought some of my friends over because I know it will be boring to them without the Community Warfare element in place. It's a shame that it might be another 4 months before we get that into this game, because I think that is what will bring in some fresh blood and keep'em here.

[Xelrah]

No one shouting "This is beta!" yet? I'm soooo disappointed.
As if we weren't pointing out so many times during closed beta that game is far from ready to be shown to larger public. Well, now we can only hope that it will change sooner than later... that is if it will happen before everything goes to hell.

[Sid Vishus]

mm ok well i paid 50 dola and a premium acc this is bata should we be paying them for a game that is not even playable as their web site says they doo not need the funds so i want to no y they are taking peoples money patching the game and leaving players like me out of the game for 2 weeks due to FPS being 4fps wtf i am angry an pistoff with this company no apology nothing charming and complain on the forums and sum up himself mod says i am spamming i say they cant handle the truth on display for all to see

and no its not my pc plays all other online games such as eve online at highest settings no problems at all

[zmeul]

Bubba Wilkins, on 19 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

you are speculating on a quite fantastic number
don't get me wrong, I wish it was true but watching a few topics and the number of voters tells quite a different story

[Bubba Wilkins]

zmeul, on 19 November 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

you are speculating on a quite fantastic number
don't get me wrong, I wish it was true but watching a few topics and the number of voters tells quite a different story

I am, but they are reasonable assumptions on my part. It's a well documented phenomena that only a small fraction of any gaming population even utilizes the forums. Most simply register as part of setting up the original account and then go their merry way oblivious. Others register and lurk for information, guides, etc and never interact. Using the forum registrations as any kind of metric is just misguided. Yes an account is required to play...but a web account does not require you TO play.

I haven't jumped into a round recently mainly because I picked up Halo 4 the other night and am spending my limited gaming time running through there. But I haven't logged on yet and failed to find a match or series of matches. Likewise, there are always people on the TS servers when I pop in there to look. Granted, they aren't packed to capacity, but they are still very much in use. Depending on the content and details of tomorrows patch, you may see a resurgence in population activity.

The following I think will lead to increased playtime:

Stability Fixes
Netcode Fixes
DHS updated to 2.0 across the board.
Cataphract addition
DX11 improvements

If these things hit tomorrow and no new bugs pop up, people who went inactive will return for a bit and others will probably increase their play time. Go the other direction, and you'll probably see the reverse as consequences.