518 replies to this topic

[LordDeathStrike]

LordDeathStrike, on 15 April 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

fixed that for ya

the biggest failure of the quad mech designs is that they are walking tanks, without the turrets. aka they turn slower then an atlas at half its weight, and cant swivel their back mounted weapons. even an atlas can flank one badly.....

LordDeathStrike, on 15 April 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

produced post 3075


not built until 3067

LordDeathStrike, on 15 April 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

to quote the sarna you linked "
Tripodal


'Mechs normally have two or (rarely) four legs. The only three-legged 'Mechs known are the exotic Colossal class Ares 'Mechs which appeared in the early 3130s.

The Hedgehog was previously mentioned as a tripodal 'Mech from the Star League era, having allegedly been introduced in 2602, but it is not considered canonical.

[edit]Quadrupedal



The quad 'Mech uses its "arms" for legs which gives these designs some additional stability and maneuverability (such as sidestepping, also known as lateral shift movement). The concept was much maligned for sacrificing the overall versatility of BattleMechs and the early designs, notably the Scorpion and the Goliath, proved flawed, being notoriously difficult to maintain and highly susceptible to breakdowns. It was only around the year 3060 that improved technology led to new quadrupedal 'Mech designs, although the stigma associated with the general concept still lingers. Bipedal BattleMechs remain the vastly more common 'Mech."

tripods are non canon or collosasls from 3130. the quads are all failed clan designs until 3060+. the game is taking place in 3049 at real time forward.

pursang, on 15 April 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Just stop - you're digging your own hole here.

the presence of evidence is not the absence of sanity.

[William Petersen]

LordDeathStrike, on 15 April 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

argument is over, non canon non bipedal mechs are in service pre 3060 in the innerr sphere. and the clan designs were all unproduced failures. quoted sarna links for evidence.

First, I think you mean canon, not non canon. Pretty sure the Scorpion and Goliath are all canon and pre-3060. <.<

http://www.sarna.net...i/Fire_Scorpion
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Snow_Fox
http://www.sarna.net...hunder_Stallion

I see nothing in those entries that indicates they were either 'unproduced' or 'failures'. In fact, the Fire Scorpion and Thunder Stallion entries talk about how cheap the mechs were, and the Fire Scorpion specifically mentions 'quantity over quality', suggesting that many were produced.

I don't see anything there about being unproduced or a 'failure'.

[Watchit]

I like me a quad mech, kinda like an Urbie, it excels at what it's made for and crappy at everything else

[LordDeathStrike]

William Petersen, on 15 April 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

First, I think you mean canon, not non canon. Pretty sure the Scorpion and Goliath are all canon and pre-3060. <.<

http://www.sarna.net...i/Fire_Scorpion
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Snow_Fox
http://www.sarna.net...hunder_Stallion

I see nothing in those entries that indicates they were either 'unproduced' or 'failures'. In fact, the Fire Scorpion and Thunder Stallion entries talk about how cheap the mechs were, and the Fire Scorpion specifically mentions 'quantity over quality', suggesting that many were produced.

I don't see anything there about being unproduced or a 'failure'.

all 3 of those mechs are never seen in the inner sphere, they arent from crusader clans. if they ever add a clan space expansion to the game then perhaps we will see them?

[Vulpesveritas]

LordDeathStrike, on 15 April 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

all 3 of those mechs are never seen in the inner sphere, they arent from crusader clans. if they ever add a clan space expansion to the game then perhaps we will see them?

How about these two which are canon and pre-3060;
http://www.sarna.net...on_(BattleMech)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Goliath

They were unpopular for the most part, but at the very least the Golaith was in production. Unpopular =/= not there.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 15 April 2012 - 10:48 PM.

[Stormeris]

oh come on, Mech like Scorpion would make a great scout hunter/long range support, and besides its much better than...trashcan mech, like WAAAY better, and scorpion wasnt popular during the time(fixed later) because of a "bumpy" ride, i dont give a damn about a bumpy ride JUST GIVE IT TO MEEEEE

[William Petersen]

LordDeathStrike, on 15 April 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

all 3 of those mechs are never seen in the inner sphere, they arent from crusader clans. if they ever add a clan space expansion to the game then perhaps we will see them?

I did not realize that you were a writer and/or authenticator of BattleTech canon, for that is the only way you would be able to definitively say that.

Just because no explicit mention has been made, does not mean they were not seen. See, the Clans have this neat thing called "Isorla", which Inner Sphere freebirths would probably call "salvage". I would not expect the barbarians to understand the subtle difference. Anyway, it would provide a plausible means by which they might have brought such Mechs with them to the Inner Sphere, though more than likely as garrison units on back-water worlds. would they be fantastically uncommon? Absolutely. Would they exist? Possibly. Can we, as players say one way or the other? Surely not. Would they, even under best case, being so rare be likely candidates for addition to MW:O? Likely not.

Furthermore, I do not know where you are getting your misinformation, but both Clan Ice Hellion and Clan Hell's Horses are, in fact, Crusader Clans.

Lastly, I thank you for completely ignoring the other point about the Scorpion and Goliath.

[Nakir]

I propose a new poll on the use or not of quad mechs in the world MWO.I note with pleasure that the discussion is followed with interest by all.

[HereticTLL]

As they'd have to redesign the Quads anyway (to avoid legal complications) this would be an opportunity for them to stick turrets on all of them (make having a turret one of the Quads "thangs"). With turrets Quads become very useful but never OP (they carry the armament of a bipedal 'mech class lighter, which is why the Medium Scorpion carries roughly the same amount of Firepower as a Panther Light bipedal 'mech).

Of course if falling over (through terrain or under heavy fire) is implemented then Quads will gain a lot of appeal for their increased stability; and who doesn't want to go hull-down behind some rocks and fire your turret out from safety? 8)

[LordDeathStrike]

Vulpesveritas, on 15 April 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

How about these two which are canon and pre-3060;
http://www.sarna.net...on_(BattleMech)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Goliath

They were unpopular for the most part, but at the very least the Golaith was in production. Unpopular =/= not there.

"The 'Mech was originally intended as a stable weapons platform but as the model came into service it was relegated to an infantry support role. The design itself was also shunned by most MechWarriors due to the rough ride of the four-legged gait." infantry support walking tank, shunned by mechwarriors, read the damn sarnas before posting!

"The Goliath is armed with what would be considered a paltry armament for a 'Mech of its size" the bigger brother is even more lame. face it, all the good designs are biped, theres a reason mechwarriors hate quads.

HereticTLL, on 16 April 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

As they'd have to redesign the quads anyway (to avoid legal complications) this would be an opportunity for them to stick turrets on all of them (make having a turret one of the quads "thangs"). With turrets quads become very useful but never OP (they carry the armament of a bipedal 'mech class lighter, which is why the Medium Scorpion carries roughly the same amount of Firepower as a Panther Light bipedal 'mech).

Of course if falling over (through terrain or under heavy fire) is implemented then quads will gain a lot of appeal for their increased stability; and who doesn't want to go hull-down behind some rocks and fire your turret out from safety? 8)

to balance them, the quads would have paper thin armor on both flanks and almost none on the rear, since their forward torso would still be center and both side torsos. also, heavy dmg to any of the 4 legs would gimp them to a snails pace. its impracticle and rubbish, thats why mechs were kept bipedal with arms to aim weapons with.

Edited by LordDeathStrike, 16 April 2012 - 03:51 AM.

[Trevnor]

JadeTimberwolf, on 15 April 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

I am going to be honest here, never even heard of Chromehound until now. I am mostly talking about converting the tabletop creation into the game itself, yes it could turn around and create some nasty possibilities if people min-maxed, but when used right I could actually turn around and make the long rang support mech I designed years ago for tabletop, it was a Heavy 75 ton Quad that in level 1 rules had 17 heat, 1 LRM 20 with 4 tons of ammo a Machine Gun with 1.5 tons of ammo and 4 medium lasers,100% armor allocation, 4 walk 6 run. very little change from that to level 2 rules but in level 3 it was no longer a support and traded out the 17 heats for 13 doubles, the LRM+Ammo for an Arrow IV with 1 ton of ammo, the medium lasers for 4 ER medium lasers dropped half a ton of Machine gun ammo and added in a Case II for ammo protection.

Personally while I highly doubt they will add in the custom mech builds I would hope they allow us at least to design personal varients of the mechs they do release, by adding that it would give no reason not to include Quads because some of the best surport mech designs come from Quad chassis IMHO.

Ah, see, I misunderstood you. I'm game for making custom variants, and don't get me wrong, I would like to see Quad 'mechs in the game at some point, I just though you meant something along the lines of putting tracks on a 'mech or something. As far as I can see, with the 'mech lab, you'll be able to make some customized variants of all 'mechs, except for swapping out a laser for a projectile weapons or something like that.

FatSpiderman, on 15 April 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

hmmm, I believe he means in the repesct of variant customization. Like MW3/4 and MC1/2. Though while on that topic, I think it would interesting to see cosmetic differences in mechs. Though this would be a programming nightmare, it would be interesting.example here

Yeah, I misunderstood him. And yes, I agree with you, cosmetic differences would be awesome!

[Stormeris]

I dont understand, alright some people dont like them so they should not put them in? there are lots of people who would actually love to use them,

Alright i personally hate the trashcan, dislike commando, atlas is meh, but im not saying they shouldnt be in MWO,

If they add quads, no ones forcing you to use it, you know? or are you afraid of getting your atlas arse owned by a quad with a ppc?

Edited by stormeris, 16 April 2012 - 04:48 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

LordDeathStrike, on 15 April 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

all 3 of those mechs are never seen in the inner sphere, they arent from crusader clans. if they ever add a clan space expansion to the game then perhaps we will see them?

Actually the Thunder Stallion was seen in the Inner Sphere when the Horses bid for a contract with Clan Wolf to guard there worlds in the Wolves occupation zone. Of course its still 10 years to go though.

[Xyph3r]

Soviet Alex, on 15 April 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

@Xyph3r: I think you mean this one:
http://www.sarna.net...hunder_Stallion

yup, that´s it! although in the books it seemed more badass than it seems to be in fact^^

[Siilk]

Obviously, some people love quad. But just think, quads would add pretty much nothing to the game while requiring lots and lots of efforts to be added: a lot of new animations, dealing with the lack of twistable torso/turret on most quads, coming up with new redesigns(most BT art for quads look like ****) and balancing them against bipeds, all just to satisfy the minority of quad fans. It just doesn't worth it.

[Stormeris]

Siilk, on 16 April 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

Obviously, some people love quad. But just think, quads would add pretty much nothing to the game while requiring lots and lots of efforts to be added: a lot of new animations, dealing with the lack of twistable torso/turret on most quads, coming up with new redesigns(most BT art for quads look like ****) and balancing them against bipeds, all just to satisfy the minority of quad fans. It just doesn't worth it.

Some people like trashcans, but they wouldnt add anything to the game either,

[FatSpiderman]

LordDeathStrike, on 16 April 2012 - 03:49 AM, said:

to balance them, the quads would have paper thin armor on both flanks and almost none on the rear, since their forward torso would still be center and both side torsos. also, heavy dmg to any of the 4 legs would gimp them to a snails pace. its impracticle and rubbish, thats why mechs were kept bipedal with arms to aim weapons with.

hmm, depending on the amount of mounts a quad has, they could be extremely devastating as support. Say they had maybe three PPC mounts, Guass, or etc. They first stay more rear then the rest of their team, hull down in a good spot, then on cue pop up and rip into a mech and repeat. All of us know how destructive that would be (hidden evil smile).

[CyberCrist]

I'd love to see some quads. More legs to shoot at

[Skylarr]

Quads seems to be a Hot topic right now. Lets see how everyone feels.

[ice trey]

Frankly, I'd like to see at least ONE quad make it into this game.

This goes double if the MWO team give up on the inclusion of melee combat.

Of course, I'd rather wait until the Tarantula is introduced. The only quads up to that point (Besides the Age of War designs, but those are supposed to be extinct at this point) are unseens. While HG has no hold on the old Dougram designs, I would still feel uneasy about MWO including designs not made specifically for Battletech.