425 replies to this topic

[Diakonos]

I stand by my stance that going back to TT values for HS and lasers will fix the whole problem. FASA already beat the path for you. The only reason DHS threw things out of whack is that lasers are already doing way more DPS than they're supposed to. Put laser DPS and range back the way they're supposed to be, and DHS won't break anything.

Remember, the Clans are coming. Nerfing IS tech is not the answer.

[MustrumRidcully]

Diakonos, on 08 November 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

I stand by my stance that going back to TT values for HS and lasers will fix the whole problem. FASA already beat the path for you. The only reason DHS threw things out of whack is that lasers are already doing way more DPS than they're supposed to. Put laser DPS and range back the way they're supposed to be, and DHS won't break anything.

Remember, the Clans are coming. Nerfing IS tech is not the answer.

Well, it depend son how hard they'll nerf the Clans.

There is one thing that may become more noticeable as we get "closer" to the table top statistics for weapons:
Range in MW:O does not compare to ranges in the table top. In the table top, a long range weapon didn't just fight at longer ranges - it also had much better hit chances than a short range weapon. When you're upgrading from Medium to Large, you're paying 5 tons and a crit not just for barely twice the damage, but also for a highly increased hit chance - in addition to the ability to possibly attack enemies further out.

In MW:O, it doesn't matter if you use a Large Laser or a Medium Laser to hit a target at 200m - it's equally difficult to aim the beam. The only range effect is a damage drop off - but it happens much later than in the table top. At 200m, it was difficult to hit with a medium laser, and easy to hit with a large laser.

This changes the significance of range considerably.

I believe we should "go back" to table top values, but we'll then need to adjust some stats based on the altered effect of range. If the current pace of combat is okay for everyone, it may be best to nerf the small and medium lasers, alternatively, we may be better off buffing large and ER weapons.

For Ballistics ,the current state of things suggest that we still need to buff the short range weapons there. The lower the range, the less efficient they currently are. I think this is due to to a second factor of balance that changes between TT and MW:O - hit location randomness vs mouse aiming combined with convergence. In the table top, 4 Medium Lasers and 1 AC20 may have the same theoretical damage output, but practically, the MLs spread their damag earound, while the AC20 hits one location really hard. The "single hit" advantage in MW:O is less important - though it is not gone. But mostly in respect in how ROF interacts with DPS and single shot damage. The more DPS, the better, in theory, but it matters a lot of if you have 5 DPS with a ROF of 0.5 seconds or 4 DPS with a ROF of 4 seconds. The latter may be preferable since it gives you more time to aim, and also allwos you to better exploit brief windows of opportunity. the high ROF weapon needs to be focused the entire time on the target to deliver its damage, the low ROF weapon only for brief moments.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

is it possible? my hunchback lost a leg in casutic valley from a random explosion, the armour was crtical but intact it was lightly damaged before the explosion. my hunchback was running hot at 100% containment at the time of the explosion (i had overidden auto-shutdown), the enemy wasnt firing back as he overheated aswell. the only conclusion i can come to is the leg mounted heat sinks exploded due to overtaxing.

so is it possible, is it a feature or bug?

[Rooky2001]

i can confirm that. Lost half of my Cicada by two DHS in Override Shutdown. I hope its a feature. Its great and fun

[Duncan Morales]

to many heat = exploding mech even there isn t a ton of ammo

[Aym]

MustrumRidcully, on 09 November 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

I believe we should "go back" to table top values,

Good points on the affect range had on TT values, however I don't think we need to "go back" to TT values just remember the differences that exist such as this, which is practically never brought up in "TT heat values ermagerd" threads.

TostitoBandito, on 08 November 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

For the record, I think this is good for game balance, but it is also completely contradictory to the patch notes which say clearly that all DHS have a dissipation value of 1.4.

For the record I think a better solution would be all DHS with the same value, engine only being stronger is an incentive toward light/medium mechs or mechs that benefit the most from 18-25 effective heat sinks since the cost to go beyond that in game terms is far greater than the cost to get to this area. Basically if engine DHS are 2.0 and all others are 1.4 it's a significant buff to lights and mediums relative to assaults and heavies. This is a problem IMO.

[DerMaulwurf]

Aym, on 09 November 2012 - 03:06 AM, said:

[...]

For the record I think a better solution would be all DHS with the same value, engine only being stronger is an incentive toward light/medium mechs or mechs that benefit the most from 18-25 effective heat sinks since the cost to go beyond that in game terms is far greater than the cost to get to this area. Basically if engine DHS are 2.0 and all others are 1.4 it's a significant buff to lights and mediums relative to assaults and heavies. This is a problem IMO.

I agree that the current state of things is a strong benefit to any chassis that lacks the tonnage to mount extra heat sinks.

But, I like that it demonstrates that the dreaded "exponential increase in damage" imply isn't there. And personally I prefer (ER) PPCs to be viable over SHS being competitive.

[Mordakai]

TostitoBandito, on 08 November 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...-effectiveness/

See thread above. Double Heatsinks (DHS) which come in the engine (not those slotted into the engine or the mech) are functioning as true DHS with a dissipation value of 2.0. All other heatsinks, those in the mech chassis or in available engine slots function at the 1.4 dissipation value as per the patch notes.

Preliminary feedback from PGI that someone posted in this thread indicated that this was deliberate. In any case, this needs to be announced officially by PGI immediately and they need to make known whether this will be corrected or whether this is going to stay.

For the record, I think this is good for game balance, but it is also completely contradictory to the patch notes which say clearly that all DHS have a dissipation value of 1.4.

Damnit I knew my ERPPC K2 performing tolerably was a fluke :'(

Oh well I guess after they change it back I will just go to Gauss like everyone else. God forbid energy weapons be primary weapons in GaussWarrior Online™

Additional: Which means I will effectively lose 6 heatsinks after they fix it. With the current setup I am technically running 34, afterwards It'll be at 28.

Edited by Mordakai, 09 November 2012 - 03:49 AM.

[Kmieciu]

I keep my fingers crossed that the lack of "light mechs are OP" threads will make the Devs introduce proper 2.0 external DHS

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

thanks for the replies guys.

[Inveramsay]

DerMaulwurf, on 09 November 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

But, I like that it demonstrates that the dreaded "exponential increase in damage" imply isn't there. And personally I prefer (ER) PPCs to be viable over SHS being competitive.

I have DHS on all my three jenners but have really only played with the F version since the nov 6 patch mounting 3xMlas and 3xSlas, 15 DHS, full armour, endo and 280xl. Over the last ten games I have been at top of the damage table for the majority of the matches and quite often doing 500+ damage. Best was a match with 6 kills, 2 assist and 1302 damage. Now that is mental for being in a fast and light mech. As much as I like it now I wonder whether it is a little over the top.

Before I rarely did more than 250 damage in a match

Edited by Inveramsay, 09 November 2012 - 05:11 AM.

[EvangelionUnit]

Kmieciu, on 09 November 2012 - 03:56 AM, said:

I keep my fingers crossed that the lack of "light mechs are OP" threads will make the Devs introduce proper 2.0 external DHS

they are not OP as long as everyone brings a LRM10 and shoot at the first light that is stupid enough to come out.

well if engine DHS work with 2.0 and the all others with 1.4, then there will bei even more 6x ligh/medium laser jenners, running around at max speed and keep shooting all day, without even looking at the heat
same goes for the Cicada.

Inveramsay, on 09 November 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

I have DHS on all my three jenners but have really only played with the F version since the nov 6 patch mounting 3xMlas and 3xSlas, 15 DHS, full armour, endo and 280xl. Over the last ten games I have been at top of the damage table for the majority of the matches and quite often doing 500+ damage. Best was a match with 6 kills, 2 assist and 1302 damage. Now that is mental for being in a fast and light mech. As much as I like it now I wonder whether it is a little over the top.

Before I rarely did more than 250 damage in a match

whats your heat level ? guess it's not very high when you use only the Slas to "cool down" ...?

Edited by EvangelionUnit, 09 November 2012 - 05:22 AM.

[Thorqemada]

I noticed that i run much cooler then expected...and it explains why so many Energy Boats can fire at that high frequency...

[General Peron]

Onyx Rain, on 07 November 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

I don't understand why your post is so off topic but I'll answer you anyways....
(I can only assume there was some issue with the language barrier)

1. You can team with 1 person, or 2, or 3 right now...So you can play with your one friend and drop into a game with him, and be matched with 6 other random players

2. A maximum of 4 in a pre-made group, IS TEMPORARY....this is only going to last a couple weeks, and we'll be back to 8 man groups, and have a better overall MM system.

3. How can you not see an advantage to playing with 2-3 people you know?, especially if you have voice chat? If they are decent players at all, you'll have a much better shot at winning with people you know and can hear then 3-4 random people who aren't in voice chat.

- I created a separated Topic, don't know why someone merged it here
- My point was that after 20th nov, the arranged groups must be of 4 player minimum, so I will not be able to play with only 1 friend (I'm forced to find 2 more guys) and I don't see why they restrict playing with only 1 friend when, as you said, is a lot better to play with 4+ friends in voice chat


Thx for your answer

[Inveramsay]

EvangelionUnit, on 09 November 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

whats your heat level ? guess it's not very high when you use only the Slas to "cool down" ...?

I have them set up for chain fire but tend to keep pressing fire button to get a bit more umph. Heat tends to be around the 80-90% mark as I keep firing away. Using Slas on chain fire I cool down and Mlas on chain I barely gain any heat, the two together it goes up but not very quickly. I get at least five alpha strikes without overheating which means that if an enemy mech, no matter what tonnage, isn't paying attention I'll core it from behind before overheating.

[AlanEsh]

Inveramsay, on 09 November 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

I have DHS on all my three jenners but have really only played with the F version since the nov 6 patch mounting 3xMlas and 3xSlas, 15 DHS, full armour, endo and 280xl. Over the last ten games I have been at top of the damage table for the majority of the matches and quite often doing 500+ damage. Best was a match with 6 kills, 2 assist and 1302 damage. Now that is mental for being in a fast and light mech. As much as I like it now I wonder whether it is a little over the top.

Before I rarely did more than 250 damage in a match

This seems OP, but you are benefiting from something besides the DHS... and that's lack of mech collisions. If they put that back in the game, lights are going to be much more vulnerable again.

I spent millions on DHS for my bigger mechs, and they pretty much suck at that 1.4x level on those mechs. PGI can fix this in a couple of ways:

1) move the cooling rate closer to 2.0, but this benefits lights more than heavies/assaults due to the large number of free crit spaces on the lights.

or

2) Change the DHS crit slot requirement to TWO slots. This will allow crit-limited heavies and assaults to carry more, but the weight-limited lights won't gain any additional advantage. Yes this breaks canon, but so does everything else in this game, so it doesn't matter. When the clans come, their DHS can be 2.0 while the IS stays at 1.5 or whatever.

[deputydog]

2.0 in the engine and 1.4 outside is perfect. You have to use up a lot of slots still and you still run hot if you hold the trigger down but you can actually use erppcs and pulse... except maybe on caustic. I hope they leave the engine dhs as is.

[QuantumButler]

Deliberate or not, this should stay.

[RragnarR40k]

I think the best solution would be to lower the doubleheatsink space consumption to 2 and keep them at 1.4 efficiency. This would let heavies and assault mechs able to sport a lot more doubleheatsinks and that way they would be able to keep up with the decked out lights and mediums...

[waysted]

So basically the developer who stated we couldn't have 2.0 heat sinks because lights would be massive overpowered went ahead and accidentally implemented 2.0 base engine heat sinks?

What do most lights use? Just base engine heat sinks for the vast majority of their cooling...

What mechs actually use significantly more than base engine heat sinks? Heavies & Assaults...

GIVE US 2.0 DOUBLE HEAT SINKS EVERYWHERE ALREADY! Un-nerf assaults & heavies already!