425 replies to this topic

[Valder]

General Peron, on 09 November 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

- I created a separated Topic, don't know why someone merged it here
- My point was that after 20th nov, the arranged groups must be of 4 player minimum, so I will not be able to play with only 1 friend (I'm forced to find 2 more guys) and I don't see why they restrict playing with only 1 friend when, as you said, is a lot better to play with 4+ friends in voice chat


Thx for your answer

Playing with 1 or 2 friends after the 20th will still drop you into PUG matches. Playing with 4-8 drops you into the premade pool.

[TostitoBandito]

Aym, on 09 November 2012 - 03:06 AM, said:

For the record I think a better solution would be all DHS with the same value, engine only being stronger is an incentive toward light/medium mechs or mechs that benefit the most from 18-25 effective heat sinks since the cost to go beyond that in game terms is far greater than the cost to get to this area. Basically if engine DHS are 2.0 and all others are 1.4 it's a significant buff to lights and mediums relative to assaults and heavies. This is a problem IMO.

Clearly, yes. I never implied that the current state is better than with real DHS. The purpose of this post is to point out that DHS do not currently work as PGI has described them in the most recent patch notes. I am a huge proponent of them putting DHS to 2.0 where they should be, and, if need be, addressing the larger heat issue which has been around ever since they increased the rate of fire across the board. If certain things are overpowered with DHS, like boated med/small lasers on smaller mechs, they can address those individually. As it stands right now, the fear of those situations is basically preventing heavy/assault mechs from using big energy weapons without sacrificing a lot of damage potential compared to using SRM's/Ballistics.

[Lanessar]

Since the patch, I've played more than a few matches with a 4xSL and 2xSSRM build, 2 DHS outside the engine. My heat level was well below the threshhold, so I switched back to 4xML and the streaks - which is what I did when we were experiencing singles in the engine. I can run that on Caustic for a bit longer than I used to, but I still have to watch it.

That's running a 300XL with 2 in the engine slots, and 1 additional outside. I don't see it as game-breaking to switch to 2.0 values across the boards, and certainly could not alpha with 6xML non-stop if I had 3.6 additional heat dissipation.

Coring an atlas (well, a decent pilot is assumed) isn't easy, especially from the rear, most pilots start distributing damage with twisting as soon as the strike hits, so I end up splattering on the L/R torso as well.

Edited by Lanessar, 09 November 2012 - 12:42 PM.

[Bunkerbomber]

OP: Good, they don't call them double heat sinks for nothing.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I'd love to see true dhs be implemented across the board. However, if PGI wanted to test something else first, trying to push light/medium mech heat a little bit higher, then here's what I'd suggest:

Make engine dhs work at 1.4 (or whatever arbitrary reduced number that is greater than 1 that they choose). Then, make external dhs work at the full 2.0. This would help the mechs that most need it (the ones with high-heat, high-tonnage weapons who have space to spare and need to be efficient with their heat dissipation weight allocation). Those mechs that run with just the engine dhs (or with only one or two extras) would lose a bit of heat efficiency, while those that need to boat heatsinks might just be able to push their total efficiency high enough to make actual use of their builds (Awesomes, I'm looking at you).

Still, the whole thing seems unnecessary. Just set them all at 2.0 and see what happens.

[Thaygood]

The name "Double" implies 2x, 2 times, twice the benefit, so why have Double Heat Sinks that do less than double the work.

DHS=2.0 seems right to me for all DHS

[Atheus]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 09 November 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Make engine dhs work at 1.4 (or whatever arbitrary reduced number that is greater than 1 that they choose). Then, make external dhs work at the full 2.0. This would help the mechs that most need it (the ones with high-heat, high-tonnage weapons who have space to spare and need to be efficient with their heat dissipation weight allocation).

This won't have the intended effect. Heavies and Assaults will still only be able to mount 7-11 external DHS's due to crit space limitations, which doesn't yield a whole lot of cooling if your whole reason for cutting weight with DHS's is to mount more or bigger (hotter) weapons.

I can pretty much mount just as many DHS's in my hunchback as I can in my Awesome or Atlas give or take 1 or 2. In this game, cooling ≈ dps. I can put 4x MPLAS and 2x MLAS in my hunchback with 19 DHS's. My energy Awesome and Atlas also have 19 DHS's. I have a little more latitude in picking what kind of weapons I'll put on those assaults, but generally speaking my dps wont' change all that much compared to my Hunchback when the cooling is the same.

Here are some ways that would give heavier mechs additional damage potential rather than just more range, armor and less speed:

• Reduce the crit slot requirements of DHS's to 2
  
• Add free heat sinks based on the tonnage of the mech - say 1 per 15 tons, so a 90+ ton mech would get 6 free heat sinks. (Maybe the internal structure helps with heat dissipation)
  
• Make engine power linear in proportion to engine weight (and just work in increments of 10).
  100 rating = 1 or .5 ton
  300 rating = 25 or 15.5 tons?
  400 rating = 59.5 or 33.5 tons??
  
  How about:
  100 rating = 8/5 tons
  300 rating = 24/15 tons
  400 rating = 32/20 tons
  
• Make heavier weapons more heat efficient rather than/in addition to longer range. (gauss laser, anyone?)
  
• Reduce the number of crit slots available on lighter mechs. (Why would a mech have the same amount of physical space as one 1/4 of its size? An Atlas's arm is clearly much larger than a Commando's)

Edited by Atheus, 09 November 2012 - 08:05 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Assuming this is correct, Id rather see engine heatsinks nurfed to 1.6 and in mech DHS buffed to 1.6 to even it out and so it makes logical sense.

DHS are in a good place right now, and singles remain useful.

[Shivaxi]

"Double heat sinks are now 1.4 times as effective as standard heat sinks. This includes DHS's that you place on your Mech as well as those integrated into the engine."

Since when did 1 x 2 = 1.4 ?

[StandingCow]

It is for balance purposes. If DHS were kept at 2.0 heat would not be part of the game.

[Fuzzyhead]

dont foget that ur engine have 10 DHS then u buy the upgrade, thats 14 heatsinks, for same tonage.

[QuantumButler]

Fuzzyhead, on 11 November 2012 - 04:58 AM, said:

dont foget that ur engine have 10 DHS then u buy the upgrade, thats 14 heatsinks, for same tonage.

Nope engine heatsinks work as true dubs only additional non engine DHSes work as 1.4.

[Hidirian]

Its nice that the ones in the engine are 2.0 but I personally think the ones outside should have been a min of 1.6 : /

Edit: I can see where they're going with this with the 1.4 IS double heatsinks seeing as when clan stuff comes out clan double heatsinks will be 2.0 as they have to be better.

Edited by Hidirian, 11 November 2012 - 05:17 AM.

[QuantumButler]

Hidirian, on 11 November 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

Its nice that the ones in the engine are 2.0 but I personally think the ones outside should have been a min of 1.6 : /

Edit: I can see where they're going with this with the 1.4 IS double heatsinks seeing as when clan stuff comes out clan double heatsinks will be 2.0 as they have to be better.

As if Clan DHS only taking up 2 critslots didn't already make them broken beyond belief...

[Rumrunner2]

Engine DHS 2.0 is wrong, patchlog says clear " all DHS now 1,4".

But i agree thats a bit to low. Powerfull energyweapons like ER-PPC still not realy useable. For me 1,6 would be okay.

[AsakuraZero]

Rumrunner2, on 11 November 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

Engine DHS 2.0 is wrong, patchlog says clear " all DHS now 1,4".

But i agree thats a bit to low. Powerfull energyweapons like ER-PPC still not realy useable. For me 1,6 would be okay.

no the math is on the 1.7, because the average of 20 + 14 = 17 so its more in teh middle, if all the DHS dissipate that much heat then all kind of weapons are viable,i mean with this "bust" on the heat sinks my brawling build on my atlas stay online for a looong time if i dont get trigger happy with the ML's

but if they are on 1.7 i could conver those ML on my arms into LL and have more bang on a longer distance (ML, ac/20 and SRM are all on the 270 range cap its funny to see my weapon loadout hud)

[Thejusttired]

If people would just start to read stickies and the command chair...

[Pykors]

I wouldn't have too much of a problem with this as a necessary balance issue if they reduced the number of crit slots double heat sinks took to 2 so the heat/slot stayed the same. Now DHS remove 0.46 heat per slot instead of 0.68. That's going to break the balance with ferro fibrous and endo steel.

[waysted]

StandingCow, on 11 November 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:

It is for balance purposes. If DHS were kept at 2.0 heat would not be part of the game.

False statements are false. DHS being set at a value less than 2.0 is just a pre-nerf of Assaults & heavies, while having little to no impact on most light & medium builds.

[ChaosAvenger0]

Upgraded my Hunch to DHS today, had 4 singles before. I equipped 2 DHS and I can't play it, 'not enough heat sinks' message. I equipped 3, 'not enough heatsinks'. I downgraded my old standard AC config(AC2/2xAC5) to fit the 4th DHS so I can finally play.

I feel like I'm not gaining anything by 'upgrading' because I still need 4 sinks which cost 4 tons but take 3 times the crits.