1392 replies to this topic

[Airwolf]

Like a Sir, on 06 November 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

Relax guys, they have a highly skilled team of internal testers... they said so the last patch

um ... er.... ok ... so they're highly skilled ..... skilled at what????

[Snailio]

Spartan, on 07 November 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

This is NOT Battletech. This is a Mechwarrior game which is using Battletech values as a basis for further balancing. Battletech does not, and never has, translated perfectly to a real-time game. In my honest opinion, MWO has gotten closer to applying BT values with balance than any other MW game. Give it time, the game is still evolving and still being tweaked with new content/weapons/equipment being added or planned which will necessitate further balance changes.

For an example that most gamers will understand:

2x video cards in SLI or Crossfire does not equal 2x the performance. There are limiting factors such as the CPU's ability to supply the cards with information to render, bandwidth, etc which limit the true performance gains. The same rationale can be applied to Double Heat Sinks.

1.) What is wrong with Battletech and "real time" ? MPBT Solaris, and MPBT 3025 are largely regarded as the best multiplayer mech games ever made, and likely the reason MWO concept is so similar to the MBPT 3025 beta.

2.) Regarding SLI or crossfire video cards, you are correct. However, nowhere does AMD or Nvidia market them as "double game play improvement" or "double frame rate video cards."

[Prophet OFC]

AIRWOLF: (love your handle btw) The live BETA player base is many times the size of the resource pool that can be pulled upon to test the game. No matter how hard they can hammer on stuff, we will be able to do in an hour what they can cover in a week. Just part of dev. I do relate to your comments about "Staying on target"...it was meant more as a reference to star wars to lighten the mood more than anything else but your points are very valid.

STORMGUT: While I am inclined to agree with the majority of your post I have to point out that we CANNOT separate the BETA title from the game. We are MEANT to be testing and shouldering the load as it were in order for the dev team to pull the data they need to pull...even if it is cynical in nature. Not to imply the intention with the recent patch is to see how far they can go before people up and quit, it would be a test worthy scenario in my mind. That being said mistakes happen. Errors in judgement. Errors in code, poor test cases etc. Things will ultimately slip through the cracks. Some big whig is prolly pushing the point with AIV and LRMs because HE loves the playstyle but we can be SURE that things will swing back around soon enough. I'm asking that we, as the BETA community, do what we are intended to do regardless of what is implemented. It is okay to be critical to the point of not wanting to participate anymore, but assuming the mantle of 'beta tester' means that we should at the very least not just flame away when there is something afoot that we don't like. If we want to progress the game as you say, we need to be very careful about how we do it so that the game and the community maintain the integrity needed to continue to develop what we're working with and enjoying so much...to bring Mechwarrior BACK like so many of us have been waiting for. Mektek and Living Legends are all well and good, but this is the real deal IMO and I for one agreed to HELP with the production of the game by being a BETA tester not to quit on it when something gets pushed that I don't like. We can't understand all the priorities, limitations and capabilities that the company is working with so we have to make due with what we have and try to be proactive about what we do with it. If life gives you lemons, you make lemonade. I fully understand your sentiment in regards to who holds the keys, but I consider the keys to change hands once the game is officially out of beta.That doesn't change the fact that we can't make the game, only PGI can. Maybe I'm just old school and excited about the opportunity to be a part of this process, but just because anyone can choose to play doesn't change the fact that the game is in beta. League of Legends was in beta for quite a long time and I'm sure they experienced a lot of growing pains with that process as well but I for one hope that the MWO community can accelerate by being proactive and positive during this process so we can stand a chance at making this game as much of a success as Riot did with LoL.

I want to convey the message that I believe we are appreciated and I'm sure there are plenty of people behind the scenes who feel the EXACT same way about some of the recent changes as the community seems to. THEY, however, have to manage the dev cycle of the game. More transparency would always be appreciated from a producer of anything, but they can guard their work as much as they want. This is voluntary, let's just try to make it work well. Right? I'm upset about a lot of stuff in this game too, but there is a time, place, platform and STYLE that is more effective and appropriate than 'QQ'. Let's be better. No?

[AngryBill]

Very well written and thorough, couldnt agree more.

Edited by AngryBill, 07 November 2012 - 02:06 PM.

[Durahl]

I know we just managed to get from Closed Beta into Open Beta and many ppl here might argue: "Beta is Beta because it's Beta" - I'll get to that later.

Why is it that for the past months/patches we receive new content that keeps wrecking havok to the game balance because of, in my opinion, obviously bad values like the newly introduced Artemis IV FCS that performs like a felt 200% damage increase to LRM's but the ECM Suite that could lessen the strain is beeing withheld?

I'm having a hard time to believe that a passive ECM Suite was THAT OP during internal playtesting than what we get right now with the offensive Artemis IV FCS. And what exactly happened to the internal playtesting when it came to the Artemis IV FCS? Everyone beeing so focused on the ECM Suite that Artemis IV FCS slipped through the qualit check?

Why has the Collision Detection not returned? Shouldn't that have been somewhat a top priority by now? I'm still beeing ridiculed by light Mechs swarming around me unless I manage to get a lucky hit through their Lagshield that sends them running like: "OMFG! Aimbot just kicked in or what!?"

Then there's the thing with Graphical Bugs like Mech Parts floating behind or ahead of Mechs or Cockpits suddenly showing outside of a Mech upon death which aren't necessarily gamebreakers but pretty much an eyesore.

So by now most ppl return to the "Beta is Beta because it's Beta" which worries me because soon™ they'll have us decide if those that paid for the game will want to have their Premium Time running. With the current trend of content beeing delivered in such a broken state and beeing left like this for weeks how am I expected to enjoy my Premium Time if I choose to activate it? When will I know for it to be ready to start my Money ticking?

Honestly... I'd wish new Content/Patches would be delivered in a more elaborated condition to ease my worries as to when to activate my Premium time.

[dal10]

I just want them to release a PURELY bugfix patch, stop adding new stuff (besides MAYBE ECM). Just fix all the issues currently in game.

[EmGooser]

I approve that double heat sinks are 1.4 and not 2.0. All games have weapon balance issues and if they were going to make all double heat sinks actually sink twice as much then heat would not be a factor once you have double heat sinks with the current heat balance on weapons.

That being said they had 2 options here. First would be to up the heat on weapons, but doing this would completely make all trial mechs or any mechs with SHS near useless. Second would to make the DHS only dissipate a lesser amount. This option would allow the DHS not completely remove all need for heat and still allow the SHS mechs not be completely useless.

In short, given the options they made the right call. It is better to see threads like this where you are just being upset about the word "double" and the fact it is not the exact same as the table top. At least then the game itself is still balanced on a heat management level.

[Natimus Prime]

Has everyone forgotten that boost you get from the pilot skills? 7.5% extra doesn't sound like much, but at Elite level --15%, after the doubling--in a mech with 15 heat sinks--an average amount for most mechs--just having the skill gives you 2 and a quarter free sinks. Upgrading to 'double' heatsinks, it jumps to 3.14 extras. It doesn't sound like a lot, sure, but it IS a factor PGI has to balance around. If cooling continues to be a problem, they can bump efficiency on doubles up a bit, but if you think we're whining now, imagine how bad it would be if they had started high and had to bump them down to balance things.

[FallenFactol]

You guys really need to get off the beta horse. Yes, it's ok to say negative things about something that is in beta, especially products that are 'FOREVER BETA'. Wikipedia says[color=#3C3D47] that a beta version of a software product is one that has been released to a limited number of users for testing and feedback, mostly to discover potential bugs. Though if the game is open to all, that pretty much makes it no longer beta. It's not an excuse, so get off your high horses and let people speak their mind. [/color]

http://daringfirebal.../11/beta_excuse

[Pando]

CrayTrashfire, on 06 November 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Seriously.... refund... i do agree with you art lrms with no ecm is messed up

It's open beta, grow some intelligence and reflect on that please. Thank you.

[Stormgut]

You definitely have a lot to say and seem pretty constructive about it, so hopefully you're cool with this. It will be more helpful to the developers if you track down existing threads for each topic you want to add your feedback on and add your feedback to each issue separately. From their posting guide: "Please divide issues into individual threads, rather than bunching bugs together."

Putting yourself in their shoes, you can imagine how much more difficult it is to get a good understanding of what the biggest issues are by browsing monster posts like this instead of seeing how many people are chiming in on a given specific topic.

[AirVengeance]

I hate to jump on the bandwagon here but yah, the game is broken. Completely unplayable with nothing but grinding missle spammers. Like others have said, I'll skip this build and play when it gets fixed.

I hate for this to be my first post but I came here thi nking I had a bug and found out it's just the update. I thought my heats sinks were not working, hmph.

Can't shoot the missle boats >>> Overheat >>>> get ***** by said missle boats >>>> Quit game.

Edited by AirVengeance, 07 November 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[miscreant]

There are many unhappy people, including myself....where are the devs?

Gauss nerfed - and explodes SO easy now
LBX nerfed - and explodes SO easy now

Atlas is more fragile than jenners.

I put 6! gauss rounds into a Jenner and he didn't die.
A jenner hit me in the back ONE TIME and I was crit - then one more shot he finished me.

The game is a disgrace to MW, and all true fans should boycott until the mess is cleared up.

I personally will not play until they fix the game.

[Grek Green]

Capt Danger Awesome, on 07 November 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

this patch has made all my mechs - that i worked really hard to create - useless now. I just don't understand how the devs could get it so wrong... PLEASE JUST UNDO THIS PATCH AND CHALK IT UP AS A LOSS... start over for gods sake.

Do people not read? You post this with our warnings a few inches above?
You are a brave, brave soul.

[KageRyuu]

SirLANsalot, on 07 November 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

No.....just No. A great many IS mechs get FAR better when using clan guns/tech in them and dis-allowing that would just break the game the wrong way.

Here's a fun fact for you, InnerSphere mechs couldn't equip ClanTech early on in the Clan Invasion because no one knew how the **** it worked. It took them 7 years to be able to cross tech and even then it was usually a one off experimental model or field refit rather than any factory grade line of mechs. In fact it wasn't until 3059 when the first IS Omnimechs began rolling of the production lines could IS MechWarriors finally refit a line of mechs to carry Clan Tech easily and effeciently. Those mech are:

Raptor RTX1-OR http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Raptor (looks kinda like the Flea)
Owens OW-1R http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Owens (also known as the "Omni-Jenner")
Strider SR1-OR http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Strider (based on the Cicada though also called the Grand Jenner)
Firestarter FS9-OR http://www.sarna.net...arter_(OmniMech) (The omnimech version of the Firesterter Batlemech)
Blackjack BJ2-OR http://www.sarna.net.../Blackjack_Omni (of which the Battlemech precursor was just recently announced)
Black Hawk-KU BHKU-OR http://www.sarna.net...i/Black_Hawk-KU (the IS Nova/Black Hawk)
Avatar AV1-OR http://www.sarna.net...tar_(BattleMech) (the IS Mad Dog/Vulture)
Sunder SD1-OR http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sunder (the IS Hellbringer/Loki and Summoner/Thor)

Also the R stands for Retrofit. Regardless, ClanTech remained rare in the IS up to the Dark Ages when a number of the clans either migrated to the IS like Clan Wolf in Exile, or merged with IS or Periphery powers, like Clan Ghost Bear and the Rasalhague Republic forming the Rasalhague Dominion, or Clan Snow Raven joining the Outworlds Alliance and forming the Raven Alliance, though there were some attempts to create Clan Grade Tech around the J!had Era, but that's not for another 20 or so years.

Note: Apparently J!had is censored.

Edited by KageRyuu, 07 November 2012 - 02:57 PM.

[AceTimberwolf]

Natimus Prime, on 07 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Has everyone forgotten that boost you get from the pilot skills? 7.5% extra doesn't sound like much, but at Elite level --15%, after the doubling--in a mech with 15 heat sinks--an average amount for most mechs--just having the skill gives you 2 and a quarter free sinks. Upgrading to 'double' heatsinks, it jumps to 3.14 extras. It doesn't sound like a lot, sure, but it IS a factor PGI has to balance around. If cooling continues to be a problem, they can bump efficiency on doubles up a bit, but if you think we're whining now, imagine how bad it would be if they had started high and had to bump them down to balance things.

This. Also SHS in the engine were upgraded to 1.4 as they only counted as one. only the ones outside your engine were dhs so I"m not sure you are actually playing and trying out ur builds or you are just looking at a number and complaining. Maybe they should jus say its now 2.0 and no one will say anytihng. and yea pilot skill comes into play where u might Infinite fire ER PPCs without building heat = Unbalance. Heat in some form or another must come into play. This is not the FPS you want it to be. its a Simulation game. Its like playing X-Wing Alliance and wanting your shields weapons and engine at full because you don't want to find a balance on your build because thats too hard

[Kill3rAce]

They need to be at-least at 1.6. It makes my K2 PPC build basically worthless, it was better off just being the same bought from the market

[$imon Osis]

Naduk, on 06 November 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

great feed back mate

this is what you just said
game is broke, im not going to tell you what is broken or how it has affected my game play
i dont actually care if you fix it or not, i just came here to complain so that you all know that i am unhappy
you dont need to know why, just get a feel for the vagueness of my unhappiness

yes thank you for noticing what i already knew. i was not done with the post but had gone out for a smoke and whail doing so i got a call and had to run, so when by the time i had got ready to leave and wen to turn off my comp i hit post and shut it down NOT remembering that it was un finished.

but it seem that i still do not need to since my fellow merc unit brother covered what i was planing on covering.

so thank you captain ovious.

[Stormgut]

Prophet OFC, on 07 November 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

... we CANNOT separate the BETA title from the game

Why not? Seriously, objectively, why is that?

Prophet OFC, on 07 November 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

... We are MEANT to be testing and shouldering the load as it were in order for the dev team to pull the data they need to pull... (snip)... I'm asking that we, as the BETA community, do what we are intended to do regardless of what is implemented.

We aren't meant to do anything. I wasn't hired. I have no responsibilities that I agreed to look after, and I'm not beholden to anyone beyond not breaking the rules of these forums and the game. I'm choosing to be professional and constructive about my feedback as much as possible because I strongly believe in the honey over vinegar approach, but I certainly don't owe anyone anything.

Again, context: if your definition of "beta" is unfinished project, then that label applies to far more games than are actually claiming it. It's a stretch of the term. Anything that has monetization features and undergoes continuous development while also being available to play then falls under that label, including age-old games like World of Warcraft. In the world of software (as is with paintings, novels, etc) nothing is ever finished until it's simply no longer being worked on.

So. What makes this a beta, in a manner that meaningfully sets it apart from other non-beta multiplayer games (like, for example, TF2)?

Prophet OFC, on 07 November 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

I'm upset about a lot of stuff in this game too, but there is a time, place, platform and STYLE that is more effective and appropriate than 'QQ'. Let's be better. No?

It seems like this is actually what you wanted your main point to be. And for what it's worth, I mostly agree. But the thing is... isn't this true whether or not the game you're trying to give feedback on is labeled as a beta?

Either way, thanks for the exchange.

[McLulzypants]