302 replies to this topic

[Egomane]

Khardis, I had some very harsh words for your opening post. Now I need to congratulate you on your last few posts.

[Totnacht]

Khardis, on 07 November 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

You all missed the point, It is HOW they chose to fix this issue. Their decision making process to me indicates they are catering to the wrong people. I know it needs to be fixed BUT I feel its necessary to keep a dialogue going to remind them which community of players is A. going to be around longer. B. be more willing to pay for new content.

I'll give you a hint it aint puggers.

I totally disagree with this and argument with games which died because of this frapos ?

for example

Age of Conan
Warhammer Online
Dark age of Camelot
SWTOR

The list is quite long, believe me, but these were the BIGGEST fails in history, because adressing the wrong playerbase, the ELITE player like you, which perhaps are 5 percent of all players.

Pugs make 80 percent of the game.

But you know it's no problem at all to make every player happy.

Best regards,

Totnacht

[Khardis]

Angst, on 07 November 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

If this game can't attract new people, it will die like so many other MMO's. If you don't make it at least *fair* for a new person coming into the game (4 person teams still not exactly fair, still didn't lose much in a 4 man last night) no one new will play. No one will stay long enough to join into premades, get invested in the game, and pay for the continued developement.

The learning curve is already ridiculous. I don't know how you can even begin to suggest this game caters to pugs when people can run around with 15+ KDR and stat lines like 200 wins and sub 20 losses (or the crazyness that was posted above). This brings the game closer into line, but you're fooling yourself if you think this is "catering" to pugs in any shape or form. Think of it more like, "making it so a pug player can play 10 games and have a decent shot at winning half of them."

I think you're the one missing the point, because most everyone else in this thread is disagreeing with you. Take a step back and look at yourself before accusing the rest of the forum and a lot of respected members here of being morons.

Just because no one agrees with you does not mean you are wrong, perhaps engaging in this forum discussion is helping me to further refine my own opinions being right or wrong is irrelevant why because opinions on decision making are inherantly subjective and therefore right wrongness do not apply. Oh, i never said anyone was a moron in fact have been pretty polite this whole time, i do believe.

I think though their development strategy should be fostering team play in pugs., how about that?

Seperating premades from pugs will only be the first step once ranked matches or something similiar are added it will be a non issues. I stand behind what I've said. For the puggies (thats my new name for you all) FFA would be a great game mode or 4v4 map matches

There needs to be added to this
A. Chat room, for grouping and chatting make teams, friends etc
B. Ingame voice chat+ keyboard shortcuts for quick responses for those that do not have headsets
..eg. "player A hits assist me on target X" etc.

I feel a few ismple additions like this would help people who don't want to join a clan etc get a more rewarding experience team play requires, nay DEMANDS communication that is one of the sole reasons why premades always stomp pugs.

Also for people new to clans etc there is that community there to support them in learning how to build their mechs and other intricacies of the game, a public chat room would help do this for those that choose not to join a clan.

You should not be pidgeon holed into joining a clan, but simply having a robust communication system will help immensly
I"ll say it again. Team play makes this game shine, you all know its true. The heart and soul of this thread btw, incase it wasn't obvious. If you make it simple for pugs to communicate the VAST difference in how rewarding the gameplay is will help foster this and I believe it can and should be the cornerstone of this games success. Team play! want a random brawl add a FFA for when you need to blow off steam.

... oh and in case it wasn't blatantly obvious this is a response too the phased implementation, not a rant ignorant of said phased implementation... i thought that was obvious... feel enlightened!

[Khardis]

Totnacht, on 07 November 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

I totally disagree with this and argument with games which died because of this frapos ?

for example

Age of Conan
Warhammer Online
Dark age of Camelot
SWTOR

The list is quite long, believe me, but these were the BIGGEST fails in history, because adressing the wrong playerbase, the ELITE player like you, which perhaps are 5 percent of all players.

Pugs make 80 percent of the game.

But you know it's no problem at all to make every player happy.

Best regards,

Totnacht

... i think my point has been horribly missed...Yearg i fudged up, it was not my intent to come off as hardcore v casual, it was organized team play v pug

TLDR: Opinion (mine) players willing to go out of their way to form teams are more likely to join communities and have been forced into third party systems to do so, this player base will play the game longer yielding longer residual income to the developer. Players who just stop by for some random matches are by and large going to be much more fickle and more than likely will move on to other games as soon as the next big thing comes out.... I do not beleive this opinion is so out of line nor is it far from the truth... I stand behind it it is my opinion don't like it.. i'm sorry.

[Corrado]

Lykaon, on 07 November 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

I can tell you one thing.7 lousy players can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

I was in a pug drop that I managed to get 5 kills in before I was taken down.This game was a loss.I killed 5 of the 8 enemy mechs and my team still lost.

I should have taken a screen shot of the scoreboard.

First name was an enemy player
Second name was mine
next 7 names enemy players
rest were my puggies with a combined damage output less than my total.

There is an amazing amount of terrible combined with terminal stupid in the puggie pool.

Out of frustration with almost always being the only player on my team to do anything other than go AFK,suicide or run uselessly into the jaws of death I went back to 4 man premades and boring LRM fueled pugstomps.

Well at least match maker phase two will put 8 man premades vs 8 man premades I honestly want challenging fights.

yes it happens. i even managed to lose one with 7 kills and around 1k damage BUT now, with no more pugstomping premades, the game looks more funny EVEN with the instane artemis spam. when you go premade vs pugs, you usually talk in TS about everything but the game and occasionally you say or hear "fire on charlie!" then charlie goes down, another bit of chatter then "fire on golf!" rinse and repeat.

where is the fun in that? free wins? a profit evening without losses? look i often rolled with BBKs and ended every night in almost 30-40 wins 1 lost. yes it's relaxing but where is the fun in that? give us premades vs premades and i'll have more fun and more challenge.

[Corrado]

another someone that can't win a single match without sitting in a premade.

sorry, no more chitchat in TS while calling targets = profit.

[Khardis]

Egomane, on 07 November 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

Khardis, I had some very harsh words for your opening post. Now I need to congratulate you on your last few posts.

Much appreciated, afterall. The process of sharing ideas and communicating them is how we learn and further develop our ideas. The OP may not have been overly well thought out but by and large I feel that this thread has at least helped me identify what really bothered me about it and what was actually important.

That being: I want to see this game developed in a way to foster and reward TEAM PLAY via communication regardless of how you choose to play

The devs have stated in their own interviews that team play is a cornerstone of this game (eg role warfare)

[Roland]

As someone who usually played on 8 man premades, I have to say that the games last night were much better than usual.

Sure, it's a little annoying to have to split the group up, but it really wasn't much fun just stomping the crap out of garbage PUG's. At least now the opposition at least puts up some sort of fight, rather than just dying within 2 minutes of drop.

[Dagger6T6]

i've seen more than a few matches where the 4man team just hangs back at the base, while the pugs fan out to do some dirty work... the pugs go in cause as much damage as they can before get dispatched... then the premade comes in and mops up.

if the pugs are exceptionally bad and get wiped off the map... reserved premade group just disconnects.

such is war I guess.... there just needs to a be a lobby already where we can match with who we want instead of just random bs drops

[Khardis]

Corrado, on 07 November 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

another someone that can't win a single match without sitting in a premade.

sorry, no more chitchat in TS while calling targets = profit.

*golf clap* for the oh so informative and constructive rebuttal
I play on a team because it's a team based game, and it is the more rewarding way to play win or lose. I need not defend my position further against your fail trolling.

Dagger6T6, on 07 November 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

i've seen more than a few matches where the 4man team just hangs back at the base, while the pugs fan out to do some dirty work... the pugs go in cause as much damage as they can before get dispatched... then the premade comes in and mops up.

if the pugs are exceptionally bad and get wiped off the map... reserved premade group just disconnects.

such is war I guess.... there just needs to a be a lobby already where we can match with who we want instead of just random bs drops

yeah a lobby would be a huge improvement and yes i agree rolling pugs in 2 minutes is boring and it did need to be fixed

[Cynwulf]

We were dropping in four man teams last night win to loss ratio is the same as it was with 8 man teams. Most drops were decisive with a few exceptions.

[Elddric]

Usually when I drop in PUGS if there is a lack of communication we loose. as soon as there is ANY communication to the whole drop team suddenly I would see less losses.

I still think that they need a some sort of built in voicechat system that PEOPLE USE. C3 .... not everyone uses it and there is no real instructions on its set up or how it will intergrate.

help files would be helpful.

[Roland]

I won around 80% of the matches I played solo last night.

If you are losing every game, then perhaps the problem is that you are dragging your team down.

[JingleHell]

Anecdotal evidence with tiny sample sizes showing anomalous results? Quick, someone email Scientific American.

Surely you acknowledge that this data set you're claiming is completely useless?

You personally winning 50% of matches is an erroneous expectation. In reality, I expect very few individuals fall directly on the median line in skill where, if all else were equal, they'd get a ~50% win/loss. You can't just assume that the individuals in your match have a 50% chance of winning the match.

Matchmaking, at this point, doesn't account for skill in even an arbitrary way. It doesn't account for partial premades, it doesn't account for a whole lot of variables. Without any artificial factors deliberately weighting your gameplay experience toward a 50% win/lose scenario (which is all a good matchmaking system will let you have unless you're at the utmost extreme of good or bad play), you're going to need a huge statistical sampling, preferably of thousands or more games in a single patch, before you can reasonably expect the "random odds" of winning to really start averaging themselves in.

Yes, it seems painful, especially in the current world of PC gaming, where "Beta" usually means "free demo time". But it is what it is.

[Lerzpftz]

Khrull, on 07 November 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

Who are the mech warrior hardcore fans? The people who spent time learning about team speak, joining clans, etc. Alienating your hardcore fans by eliminating 8 person groups? Not smart.

Why not just do premade vs premade? Non premade vs non premade? Doesn't seem that hard.

Hi. I'm a mechwarrior hardcore fan. I spent a lot of time to learn how to set up a private mumble server, so i can speak to my friends. I'm one of the guys, having prepaid for a closed beta. I'm playing 80% PUG games, the rest with 1-2 real life friends. I think I'm not the only one doing that. So please think about your words again.

[Imagine Dragons]

Apply Energy Pyramid.

[Kilee]

From what I am seeing in game, a drop will have probably 25% chance that your 4 man team will get paired with atleast 1 player whom does not intend to help and will either AFK or suicide.

Not unusual to have multiple players AFK.

What can be done to assure that the players you drop with actually want to participate ?

If PGI wants to force groups to accept "non-team" members, then PGI needs to implement a system that is fair to that team trying to accomplish a goal.

PGI implementation of 4-man grouping is akin to the judicial systems "villian has more rights than the victim".

[RragnarR40k]

It is not the plan to let the game be locked to 4 man groups. This is a step that they introduced only to balance teams a little bit untill the ranking system is implemented...

[Pengilum]

Yea. Im a little frustrated by the fact that I can't play with my clan.

We have to break down into smaller lances instead of doing full groups. I understand they intend on eventually letting full groups drop.

It's really not a good fix to the problem though.

[Col Forbin]

Sorry devs, but I can't believe that this was the best solution you could come up with to fix the matchmaking problem. I think every group would be willing to incur a little extra wait time to be matched with other premades. Keep the PUGs separate, although I do think it's good for them to get a good stomping every once in a while to remind them that this is a team game and what-the-hell-are-they-doing-trying-to-play-this-like-a-FPS.

I for one, will not be playing till the next phase. The game is no longer fun, as it feels like your group has no control of the game. Thanks for forcing us to "type" while playing to get the most basic communication across to the rest of your team.

Here's my suggestions to encourage premade grouping starting from simplest to implement to hardest:

Show player mechs alongside the names when the map is loading, and allow text chat to start immediately, as well as battlemap access, to allow people to start strategizing before the game starts.

Allow players to "opt in" at the end of a match to be grouped together, so they can launch the next match together.

Get integrated VOIP working ASAP. People will voice chat when it is handed to them, and there is no commitment beyond the match. A lot of people are intimidated with the whole joining a teamspeak group before they start playing. Maybe they only want to play a couple matches, or whatever.