25 replies to this topic

[silverback fuomo]

OK, so since the dawn of time, back in mechwarrior 1, i have used the catapult as my weapon of choice. Why? because i suck as a pilot, and the turning and twisting disorients me. after having a few adult beverages, it becomes much easier to sit back and steel rain on everyone's parade.

so now, without my former team, and flying solo i no longer rule. what you say?? when i drop with pugs, i am always slower and left behind. the minute i get a target lock and start shooting, i get rushed by small mechs who kill me. even if i stick with the big boys they run away from me and the oposesing team concentrates on me and i die quick. i am running a founders mech with 2 lrm 20 and a new artemis system. dont tell me that lrms rule this game. lrms rule this when used properly in conjunction with a well planned team assault PERIOD. and thats how it should be and always will..

[Mech Wrench]

Yes. as he said, and so it is. PERIOD. Founders kitty rules, but only in their intended environment.

[Damien Matashy]

My name is Damien Matashy, I am an LRM pilot. I support the OP message

Edited by Damien Matashy, 06 November 2012 - 07:44 PM.

[Mechwarrior413183]

Well yeah LRMs are useless without someone to spot and keep the enemy tied up, I'm not decided either way on LRMs but they can really wreck people who aren't very cautious in numbers, they require guerilla fighting and patience to beat. It makes things like WoT imo you have to hang back in areas with lots of cover to drop locks and focus everyone on scouts without being lured out. Reminds me so much of WoT vs heavy arty or TD heavy teams, arty missed more but was devastating when it hit.

Edited by Mockeryangel, 06 November 2012 - 07:53 PM.

[Liberty]

There is truth in that LRM carriers have their place and the team is what counts. Unfortunately, the teams are primarily becoming missile boaters with scouts making other mechs worthless despite their skill level. Brawlers will not do well against a coordinated team composed of a lot of LRMs. True that is not the fault of the people piloting LRM mechs. That also doesn't mean a LRM mech is broken although Artemis has done some silly things. I lay that fault on PGI as the maps do not provide adequate cover or allow Brawlers the ability to implement any kind of tactics as a defense. If there were taller buildings, walls, or dense forests that gave cover then I'd have no issue. Currently there just isn't any way to duck out of the storm as a close in fighter.

[Cannibal Cat]

Liberty, on 06 November 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

...as the maps do not provide adequate cover or allow Brawlers the ability to implement any kind of tactics as a defense.

As an LRM boat (my two Ravens and Catapult all sport LRM-15's or better), I have to disagree. Yes the Caustic Valley is an LRM lover's wet dream, but the other maps, especially the River Valley, all have plenty of tall buildings to impede an LRM, but that's where SRM's come in handy

[Taryys]

Yea, LRMs are pretty much hosed with ECM on the table, until you get into an organized group with people spotting and calling targets.

I stopped playing my LRM boat while PUGging over a month ago, since it was like throwing money in the wind.

[Kaldor]

At OP:

If you want to keep the C1:
Add 2 ALRM15
Add 2-4 Medium lasers
Add XL300 so youre not slow (75kph) read: lunch for anything
Add DHS
Add LRM ammo to taste
Optional: Add TAG to increase the damage of your LRMs and counter ECM

Buy C4
Add 2 ALRM15
Add 2 SSRM2
Add Medium lasers
Add XL300 so youre not slow (75kph) read: lunch for anything
Add DHS
Add LRM ammo to taste
Add 1 or 2 ton of SSRM ammo to taste
Optional: Add TAG to increase the damage of your LRMs and counter ECM

Buy A1
Add 2 ALRM15
Add 4 SSRM2
Add XL300 so youre not slow (75kph) read: lunch for anything
Add DHS
Add LRM ammo to taste
Add 3-4 ton of SSRM ammo to taste
Hope you dont run into ECM mechs...

The moral of the story here is:
Stop going slow and keep moving
Dont sit back at 900m and expect help if you get a light on you
Shoot at around 500m
And never leave home without some form of light deterrent

[Taryys]

You thieving-*******. Stay the hell outta my mech bays!!

Kaldor, on 10 December 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

If you want to keep the C1:
Add 2 ALRM15
Add 2-4 Medium lasers
Add XL300 so youre not slow (75kph) read: lunch for anything
Add DHS
Add LRM ammo to taste
Optional: Add TAG to increase the damage of your LRMs and counter ECM

[Penance]

silverback fuomo, on 06 November 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

after having a few adult beverages,

There's your problem. Don't drink and drive

[Taryys]

That is basically my exact build including TAG.

[Kaldor]

Taryys, on 10 December 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Yea, LRMs are pretty much hosed with ECM on the table, until you get into an organized group with people spotting and calling targets. I stopped playing my LRM boat while PUGging over a month ago, since it was like throwing money in the wind.

Somewhat of a fallacy....

If you can self TAG and keep on the move, you can do fine with either the C1 or C4 builds I posted above. Pugging with an A1, unless its an SRM boat can be a PITA though.

I spent some time last week pugging with an Awesome 8R with 4 ALRM15s, TAG, and 2 medium lasers and did just fine as long as I played it smart. When running 4 or 8 man, as long as I have a good spotter with TAG this build is scary OP in my opinion.

Taryys, on 10 December 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

You thieving-*******. Stay the hell outta my mech bays!!

I havent given up my Cats or LRMs entirely, Ive just moved on to trying new and bigger things

[Taryys]

Yea, me too.

LRM Cats are my primary ride, but I am working on Ravens for now. I need to get them unlocked, so my EW Raven will rock it out.

Kaldor, on 10 December 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

I havent given up my Cats or LRMs entirely, Ive just moved on to trying new and bigger things

[Lykaon]

What I will recommend is using your mech for close support LRMs.

This means you are the one getting LOS on the target you are firing on.
Intergrate a TAG and you will find that you can make LRMs work in PUG games.

I run a C1 catapult for this purpose.

300XL engine
2 LRM 15 artemis equiped
5 tons ammo
3 medium lasers
1 TAG
12 DHS
endo steel
1 jump jet
rest of the tonnage is standard armor


This technique does of course require the pilot to do more than sit still and lob ordnance you actually need to pay attention to target range and frequently resort to the lasers to finish a kill.

[ConnorSinclair]

Do you read BattleTech Silverback? Well theres this Codex I got memorized.

EZK pages 25 and 17

The path of the righteous atlas is beset on all sides by the inequities of the streakcat and the tyranny of LRM boats. Blessed is he through charity and good well ECM's the weak through the incoming missiles, for he is truly his house's keeper and a finder of LostTech.

And I will strike thee down with great Alphas and Furious AC20's, THOSE WHO ATTEMPT TO LOCK ON AND DESTROY MY LANCE MATES!

AND YOU WILL KNOW MY NAME IS THE D-DC WHEN I LAY MY ALPHAS UPON THEE!

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Catapults were always my favorite too. I probably wouldn't have gotten a Legendary at all if it wasn't in the Founder list. I don't care about your fanboy Vultures or Madcats, I always played a Catapult.(Melissa Steiner would be proud. Oh wait, it's a Capellan Mech. Sorry Liao, I don't work for yo.)

Pre ECM playing an LRM carrier was fun and had advantages and disadvantages. You could sometimes reign dominance if allowed or other times be completely shutdown by competent enemies. I never felt cheated when I was killed or getting kills. I liked it anyway. It was very fun. I stuck by this role since the start, because it was always fun and you were never useless doing it. I didn't care what they did. Nerf my tracking? I don't care. I kept right on shooting missiles. Add the AMS? Run for cover kids, I'm still shooting missiles and I brought a whole lot of them. Nerf my damage? I don't care. I'm still shooting missiles. Bring the pain. Prevent target lock? I'm... oh... wait... no...

Finally, as the kids and victims are probably happy to see, I completely shelfed my Catapult, now named "The once great C1F". Why? You can't shoot missiles anymore. At all. It's as simple as that. The entire role of an LRM carrier and even long range combat itself is now obsolete. Tag isn't reliable enough even when used by others for you(And GL getting that to even occur), and if you use it yourself, then there's no point. If you have to get <=450 meters to use LRMs, then you may as well "not" use LRMs. I don't get why this is a hard concept. If you're going to get that close, you may as well slot Energies and Ballistics. Let's look at the list again. A Large Laser, which could have went into that Energy hardpoint instead of a Tag - full damage to 450m. AC 10, full damage to 450m. Also, if you're already at 450m, it'll take mere seconds for enemies to close 300m where every close range gun in the game unlocks for full damage. By the time you even get a lock your enemy will be 300m away. So I have to add these too; Medium Laser, full to 270. AC 20, full to 270. LBX, full and effective around 300-350. SRMs, 270. So there's no reason to bother with LRMs anymore. They're finally obsolete.

And that's apparently what a lot of people wanted. They didn't want balance. They just wanted the entire system butchered and driven to the trash. And that's what they got. And now they're happy. Now it's just zerg to 300m and pewpew and powpow. There's no long range combat anymore. You can queue 10 games straight without seeing a single LRM or a Gauss round fly across the sky. That's not a exaggeration. People that liked to brawl wanted long range combat scrapped entirely just so they could brawl more easily, and that's exactly what they got.

My favorite variant, "The once great C1F", is now obsolete and sadly I'm reporting that I'll never take it out of the hanger again until the game is changed.(assuming it is at all) Do they expect me to turn him into an SRM boat? I don't want to do that, and if I want SRMs, I'd just slot them on my 4SP or buy a 4J. In addition to 2 missile, they also have better Energy locations. Why would I SRM boat on a C1 vs any other Mech? Other Mechs have better Energy locations and no chest slot restriction. So "The once great C1F" is now defunct. It has no purpose anymore. Its tombstone reads, "Once king of the LRM racks - finally slain by talentless whiners. It's shooting missiles in a better place. R.I.P."

Edited by Bluten, 10 December 2012 - 03:11 PM.

[Taryys]

TAG is getting a boost out to 750 meters.

[ConnorSinclair]

Bluten, on 10 December 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Catapults were always my favorite too.

Your sig makes me laugh,

8 dps compared to 3.07

Firing from cover

Firing from base

Mechs losing arms as they leave base

Splash that clips through arms for CT

yeah no, **** you and the cat you rode in on.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

ConnorSinclair, on 10 December 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

yeah no, **** you and the cat you rode in on.

Yup, and that is exactly what Piranha did. Hope you're happy, because the game is now watered down just for you and every build and match is the same. There's no differing roles anymore. There's no tactics required on the field anymore. Just stack Medium Lasers, rush to 300m, and go pewpew. You got what you wanted. Hope it was worth it.

Taryys, on 10 December 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

TAG is getting a boost out to 750 meters.

How do you know that? Damn you if you're making that up because now I'll have dug for it.

Edited by Bluten, 10 December 2012 - 02:15 PM.

[Taryys]

Command Chair, baby:

http://mwomercs.com/...ser-experience/

Quote

As I said I would keep you up to date... going into test today... possibly live next patch...

1) AutoCannon projectile speeds increasing. AC/20 ~ 900m/s. AC/LBX10 ~ 1100m/s. AC/UAC/5 ~1300m/s.
2) PPC and ERPPC projectile speeds increasing to 2000m/s (AC/2 speed).

I've also looked into doing some tweaks with the NARC and TAG systems. So far I'm planning on increasing the time that a NARC beacon lasts from 15 seconds to 20 seconds. TAG range will be boosted from 450m to 750m.

These changes will go through testing and if it feels right, you'll see them next patch.

Edited by Taryys, 10 December 2012 - 02:17 PM.