78 replies to this topic

[wDraco]

MuffinTop, on 06 November 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

LRMs are only OP when you have two or more LRM boats with OP scouts. Then you should run and hide, and don't stand still for more than a few seconds. One last thing......A moving target is a hard target.

Guess you can move really fast with an Atlas? or an Hunchy? everything that cannot run +100 is dead meat.

[Salient]

bump

[Vila deVere]

LRMs + Artemis are DEFINITELY too much right now. Sheesh! Needs a fix ASAP.

OTOH, I like the trade off with the SRM's.

Most everything else is great with the patch, but LRMs + Artemis is crazy right now.

[Daekar]

LRMs + Artemis should = LRMs prepatch
LRMs without Artemis should = more scatter and slightly flatter trajectory than prepatch.

And that's still a little on the OP side.

[Vulture2k]

Pffft.. LRM should simply be 1 Damage instead of 2 per Missile.. its a weapon to soften up targets before they close in.. not for killshots..

[Beo Vulf]

Kaijin, on 06 November 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

LRMs are not killing gameplay. LRMs+Artemis with no ECM counter is.

Agreed!

[Gregore]

To all those saying that the LRM damage was doubled because the armor amount was doubled, please stop and think before you post. What would be the point in doubling the armor if you double the damage? Armor was doubled because mechs were dying too fast, if you double the damage as well you are back to the same point.
It works the same way if you give 100x the armor, then up the damage by 100x, same result. So, come on.

Also to the guy (Ebea I think) saying l2p get under cover, seriously, l2r uf you read any of the posts you would realize that cover us useless as the LRM's are dropping at pretty much 90 degrees. This means the only cover is under bridges or in tunnels, unless of course the missiles don't just fly straight through them, as they are prone to do, and still hit you.

[Peter2000]

I am an LRM pilot (at the moment, at least). They are OP as hell, especially considering TAG effectively gives them the best damage (even on a single location) in the game, and Artemis removes pesky cover. Games are often determined by the number of Artemis/TAG missileboats, at the moment, and to a lesser degree by their skill, and their spotters'. I routinely do 1000+ damage per match in a catapult, and get ~3 kills. The game is becoming one dimensional, and this should change.

ECM is not the solution. As LRMs stand, it will simply mean everyone needs ECM always. Which is also boring, TBH.

Edited by Peter2000, 07 November 2012 - 11:45 AM.

[cyberFluke]

CompproB237, on 06 November 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

This is really an example of how the C3 System that the Draconis Combine makes in 3050 was supposed to help with targetting information. A spotter (usually a fast/light mech) would run and spot an enemy, gain targetting information and then another C3-Equipped 'Mech would begin raining death. Where the storyline stands the only information that should be parlayed to others should be over the radio (C3, Command, Control, Conquer... not the C3 Unit System) and all missles are supposed to use Line of Sight for targetting information. TAG and NARC was to help assist with lock on time as well as accuracy by giving the friendly 'Mech's targetting computer a better idea of where the missles were supposed to go.


I've already gone over this in the Suggestions section. To keep it simple every 'Mech in the game currently has a weightless, critless C3i (Made in 3062... 13 years "in the future") System installed. In my opinion, this is what is making missles so "Overpowered".

*THIS*

This is one of my biggest faults with the game to date. In my opinion (which I'm aware is worthless, as a lone voice) this needs to change ASAP. The c3 computer(s) need(s) to be introduced at the same time as the Guardian ECM and Beagle Active Probe planned for the end of this month. It needs to be done early, to allow people to get used to how this will change current spam tactics.

I'm not entirely sure what they're planning to do with the planned "Command Console" that comes fitted in the Atlas-D-DC ("http://www.sarna.net...Command_Console"). I'm pretty sure it's not going to allow for another pilot to sit inside your mech, but give some sort of bonus to being the team commander in some way. Perhaps MW:O's command console could be combined with the C3 Master computer in the BT rules. Effectively this would mean you'd need a mech with the command console on your team, and need a "command slave" module in your mech to receive/transmit targeting data on the C3 network. An alternative would be to just combine the master and slave together as well, making one "combined command console", every mech that wanted to share targeting data would need one equipped.

This would keep with the intended level of complexity of BattleTech, rather than the increasingly watered down version of the game we're seeing.

[chungus maximus]

I had no issue with the LRM's. However, the unnecessary the buff to 2 damage, plus the fact they drop out of the air like a Javelin is what is breaking the game right now. Cover is almost useless, unless you can tuck right up against a build or ridge and they absolutely shred armor to bits with the buff. AMS works, but with so many missiles in the air, they run dry quickly, especially with an entire team sending up salvos. Nerf them back down damage wise and take out the ridiculous trajectory, problem solved.

Another issue I see is the trial 'mech selections seem to push new players towards a spotter/LRM boat strategy. Choose better trial 'mechs and you'll take away the temptation for new players to go to raining LRM's down on people like fire and brimstone and it being their only known strategy.

On a side-note, game is in beta, put away your d*** pitchforks and flamers and contribute to making a better game. Whining about a broken game and storming off doesn't help anyone. Stay, do the work, make a solid game.

[Red squirrel]

I voted yes ... hell I even put an LRM20 + Artemis into my Raven 4X

killing spree

[Revorn]

I Love Raven with LRM 20.


Do out the Free Ammoreplacement of 75% and all will get fine, With 60k cost per Tonn of Ammo, only a few will take Atremis. And even LRM Boating gets expensive then. At least i guess so.

[Red squirrel]

Revorn, on 07 November 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Do out the Free Ammoreplacement of 75% and all will get fine, With 60k cost per Tonn of Ammo, only a few will take Atremis. And even LRM Boating gets expensive then. At least i guess so.

OK....great solution. Only those who are willing to pay get super gold missles.....mhh what other F2P game does that remind me of?

[jtyotJOTJIPAEFVJ]

wDraco, on 06 November 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

can you tell me whats the diference ECM aint working LRMs are, i saw an Atlas getting every LRM rocket on his head and shoulders, not even one touched the ground.

Sounds like you need this:

wDraco, on 06 November 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

head and shoulders

[Kaijin]

Gregore, on 07 November 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

To all those saying that the LRM damage was doubled because the armor amount was doubled, please stop and think before you post. What would be the point in doubling the armor if you double the damage? Armor was doubled because mechs were dying too fast, if you double the damage as well you are back to the same point.
It works the same way if you give 100x the armor, then up the damage by 100x, same result. So, come on.

Armor was doubled from TT values because unlike in TT, in MWO direct-fire weapons can be aimed at very specific locations. In TT nothing could be aimed. In MWO, LRMs still cannot be aimed - the missiles spread. So LRMs go a buff to make up for the no-aiming nerf.

Gregore, on 07 November 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Also to the guy (Ebea I think) saying l2p get under cover, seriously, l2r uf you read any of the posts you would realize that cover us useless as the LRM's are dropping at pretty much 90 degrees. This means the only cover is under bridges or in tunnels, unless of course the missiles don't just fly straight through them, as they are prone to do, and still hit you.

Though not 'the guy', I'm still finding plenty of effective cover from LRMs, but perhaps my cover is only effective because I don't let spotters stare holes into my backside. The only time I'm maintaining LOS with the enemy is when I'm shooting them. At all other times, I keep it to a minimum. I cannot count the number of Artemis salvos I have had land harmlessly near me simply because I broke LOS with the spotter and moved a few meters.

Edited by Kaijin, 07 November 2012 - 04:52 PM.

[Umbra8]

Gregore, on 07 November 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

To all those saying that the LRM damage was doubled because the armor amount was doubled, please stop and think before you post. What would be the point in doubling the armor if you double the damage? Armor was doubled because mechs were dying too fast, if you double the damage as well you are back to the same point.
It works the same way if you give 100x the armor, then up the damage by 100x, same result. So, come on.

They have been tweaking lrm damage vs armour values for some time. You have to remember that TT values often don't translate well to real time mech play as weapons have different cycle times. One of the reasons beam weapon damage wasn't changed from TT is the DPS of those weapons could be changed with differing cycle times, which make more sense than having one cycle time for all weapons and adjusting damage values. Since missile damage (pre patch) tended to be widespread and with a significant margin of misses even on-target it could stand to have a value close to two times TT value which, combined with their cycle times (fastest is the LRM5 at 3.25, same as a large laser) meant their actual DPS vs the increased armour wasn't a 1:1 correlation.

And yes, some people should think before they post.

Edited by Umbra8, 07 November 2012 - 05:32 PM.

[Gramrock]

MorbidGamer, on 07 November 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

This sums it up.

Yesterday in river city they flew through the buildings I think thats not 100% the case... but yeah the 90° is a bit funny without any real defences

[wDraco]

guess now the question is are they going to do anything about this? if so when?

[Noth]

wDraco, on 08 November 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

guess now the question is are they going to do anything about this? if so when?

IN about an hour and half they will