36 replies to this topic

[Elizander]

Allow us to upgrade any mech we want (aside from the ones that already have a bonus of some sort) so that it will get a 20% C-bill bonus permanently for the $6.95 MC value (1,250 MC).

This will allow us to play our favorite mechs with the proper bonuses and it is cheap enough that it's viable to slap it on to most mechs that we want to play. It's less than the Founder's bonus so it shouldn't be an issue. I wouldn't really mind if you bumped it up to +25% C-bills as long as it maintains the same price.

This will allow PGI/IGP to further monetize on mechs that are already purchased and mechs that were only bought with C-bills and allow us to play with our favorite variants without worrying about the repair and re-arm costs. worrying about earning much less than when we use our hero/founder mechs.

Edit:

Updated since we no longer have R&R.

Edit:

Due to new discussions and changes, I have added a new suggestion below based on some of the comments:

DeadlyNerd, on 19 February 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

Technically we're already creating hero mechs by modifying default setups and >>naming<< them.

I like the idea but 1250MC is a bit too low for permanent 20%. Hero mechs cost a lot more than 1250MC and they'd only have 10% on top of this.
Maybe like someone said, make it last for a limited amount of time, a "tactical choice".

Remember that you have to get the mech first. 1250 MC doesn't come with a mech. It's an upgrade to an existing one that you might have purchased with C-bills or MC.

The other goal of this suggestion is to give more value to the 1250 MC package. If PGI and others think that 1250 is too low for 20%, we can go and break down the process even further (not saying I'd want it to be more expensive but I'm all about providing options!)

Hero Upgrade Tier 1: +10% more C-bills earned for 1250 MC
Hero Upgrade Tier 2: +20% more C-bills earned (upgraded from 10% this doesn't count as 30%) for another 1250 MC

That way you spend 2500 MC to upgrade a normal mech. If we go by weight classes as PGI/IGP does with their 75 MC/Ton formula, we can do this as well to some degree!

I don't have time to do the hard math, but let's just assume for now that a Hero mech costs 2.3x a normal mech in MC (barring some outliers like those with XL engines built in). To 'Hero up' a mech slowly we can use the value of 1.3 (removing the cost of the mech so that this is the pure Hero vaue).

75 MC per ton
75 / 2.3 = 32.60 (base value)
32.6 x 1.3 = 42.40 (Hero per ton value in MC)

So let's say we round it off to 43 MC (or maybe even 45 MC) per ton.

Custom Hero Commando:

Hero Tier 1: +10% C-bills gained for 563 MC (Can buy with $6.95)
Hero Tier 2: +20% C-bills gained for an additional 1125 MC (If you buy tier 1 first, you just add the difference in cost from tier 1 to tier 2)

Custom Hero Raven:

Hero Tier 1: +10% C-bills gained for 788 (Can buy with $6.95)
Hero Tier 2: +20% C-bills gained for 1575 (If you buy tier 1 first, you just add the difference in cost from tier 1 to tier 2)

Custom Hero Hunchback:

Hero Tier 1: +10% C-bills gained for 1125 (Can buy with $6.95)
Hero Tier 2: +20% C-bills gained for 2250 (If you buy tier 1 first, you just add the difference in cost from tier 1 to tier 2)

Custom Hero Catapult:

Hero Tier 1: +10% C-bills gained for 1463 (Can buy with $14.95)
Hero Tier 2: +20% C-bills gained for 2925 (If you buy tier 1 first, you just add the difference in cost from tier 1 to tier 2)

Custom Hero Awesome:

Hero Tier 1: +10% C-bills gained 1800 MC (Can buy with $14.95)
Hero Tier 2: +20% C-bills gained 3600 MC

Custom Hero Atlas:

Hero Tier 1: +10% C-bills gained 2250 MC (Can buy with $14.95)
Hero Tier 2: +20% C-bills gained 4500 MC

Now with this system you pay for the pure cost of the Hero bonus (of course just estimates on my part, but you get the idea) minus the cost of the actual mech. With the ability to tier upgrade, those who can only afford the $6.95 package every now and then can slowly upgrade 50 ton mechs or below until they reach the 20% bonus and the $14.95 package will allow people to slowly upgrade even an Atlas to 'Hero' status without having to shell out a large amount of money in one go.

Installment tiers allow people to upgrade slowly and gives more value and purpose to the $6.95 and $14.95 MC packages.

You can probably add more tiers to make the Atlas available for very slow upgrading for $6.95 but that would require up to 4 tiers for the Atlas and it would look something like this:

Custom Hero Atlas V2.0:

Hero Tier 1: +5% C-bills gained 1125 MC (can now buy with $6.95!)
Hero Tier 2: +10% C-bills gained 2250 MC
Hero Tier 3: +15% C-bills gained 3375 MC
Hero Tier 4: +20% C-bills gained 4500 MC

Now with this system, there are more tiers, but now the difference is you can slowly upgrade your Atlas to Hero status with just the $6.95 package in 4 installments!

We pay the 'proper' value for the Hero bonus but now people who can only afford the $6.95 MC package once in awhile can slowly build up their favorite mech to hero status~ everyone happy?

Other suggestions:

Efficiency Custom Modules
Weapon Custom Modules
Upgrade SHS to improve trial mechs and some stock configs
Reset Cadet Bonus with first purchase of Premium time

Edited by Elizander, 16 March 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[Draco Argentum]

A good way to add a monetisation option. I sggested it but I think it was ignored because it was the last line in an anti YLW PM.

[Elizander]

Draco Argentum, on 07 November 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

A good way to add a monetisation option. I sggested it but I think it was ignored because it was the last line in an anti YLW PM.

It's just like the Tribes:A permanent 50% bonus for your account(?) or the one in our local FPS game KOS Secret Operations where they sell you an item to slap onto any of your characters to give a permanent 50% boost for that character. This would be per mech so there are many options for multiple-purchases. I mean, the $6.95 package for MC is the entry level one so it should be able to get you a few more things other than just Commandos and mech bays.

And what did you have against the YLW other than perhaps it being available for MC only/Removal of the AC/20 Cent variant?

[Draco Argentum]

The Tribes 50% boost as a reward for your first real money purchase was marketing genious. Who played that game for more than a few hours and didn't buy at least the smallest pack? I'd imagine they had a much higher conversion rate than most similar F2P games.

Elizander, on 07 November 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

And what did you have against the YLW other than perhaps it being available for MC only/Removal of the AC/20 Cent variant?

Its an MC only tactical option. That is not and never will be cool with me. Not in a game I take seriously at least. In WoT I just mess around and its not an IP that I care about. Mechwarrior is more than that.

[RedHairDave]

the wang is much much lesser than the d variant, its not p2w at all, its not tactically different in any meaningful way, well other than being slower. hero mechs are for money making, if that could go anywhere, then there is no reason to run anything but the flavor of the month, i dont like the idea of getting boosts that attack to mechs, the prem account is good enough, with hero mechs to round out money making.

just my 2 cents.

[Sulf]

Seems like a bit of a pay-2-win setup. I mean why wouldn't you do this too all your mechs?

Edited by Brickyard, 07 November 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[PapaKilo]

There should be a way to give temporary bonuses to standard 'Mechs. One week for 150 MC or something like that.

However, permanent bonuses should only be for special 'Mechs like the Founders and Heroes.

[Elizander]

Brickyard, on 07 November 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Seems like a bit of a pay-2-win setup. I mean why wouldn't you do this too all your mechs?

Not really. It already exists in the form of the Founder's 25% bonus and the Hero mech 30% bonus. It will just give players flexibility on being able to play whichever variant they prefer and still have a bonus of some sort to their gains and I am sure that PGI would be happy if you bought it for all your mechs. It's more like a create-your-own-founder's-mech than anything. They can make it a clickable upgrade that requires MC (like Endo Steel and DHS).

PapaKilo, on 07 November 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

There should be a way to give temporary bonuses to standard 'Mechs. One week for 150 MC or something like that.

However, permanent bonuses should only be for special 'Mechs like the Founders and Heroes.

I'm not too fond of temporary bonuses like that though it can still have some merit for people who want a bonus while grinding up a variant just for the sake of boosting their main mech. The bonus I recommend is less than Founders and Heroes so it shouldn't be so bad.

Draco Argentum, on 07 November 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

The Tribes 50% boost as a reward for your first real money purchase was marketing genious. Who played that game for more than a few hours and didn't buy at least the smallest pack? I'd imagine they had a much higher conversion rate than most similar F2P games.

Its an MC only tactical option. That is not and never will be cool with me. Not in a game I take seriously at least. In WoT I just mess around and its not an IP that I care about. Mechwarrior is more than that.

While I am surprise about the removal of the AC/20 Cent and the addition of the Wang for MC only, I do not think that the game has the proper systems to support having Hero mechs in. My previous recommendation of having an uglier-skinned version for C-bills is obviously not to their liking as they removed the only other Cent with the AC/20. If the game had some quest or achievement system in place they could add the Hero mechs to those instead of just selling them for C-bills. I'm sure that there's a simple way to to do (sell for like 20-25m c-bills or more just for the sake of saying it is available to F2P players) and the better and more complicated way of giving it as a reward to achievements and such.

What they are selling right now is quite limited so I would understand why they would be cautious of the few things that they can potentially squeeze for revenue. They still do not have the content to sell to earn enough cash and that will take time to produce. To be honest, if I were to review this game for a publisher, I would have to say that the item mall is not polished enough to properly support steady revenue. Most local publishers here would probably go a step further if they hosted MW:O and removed some mech variants and make them MC only until more content arrives. P2W is pretty much the way to go in my country in terms of revenue.

More content and revenue options will come in time (skins, cosmetic items, more mechs), I hope. This little suggestion of mine is there to help us enjoy whatever mechs we choose to pilot and to hopefully add another item that contributes to MW:O's income. I do think that they need to add more value to their lowest package of $6.95 so that more people are encouraged to try out a purchase. You can only buy so many Commandos, but you can get quite a few of the Perma 20% bonuses for all your mechs.

[Sulf]

Elizander, on 07 November 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Not really. It already exists in the form of the Founder's 25% bonus and the Hero mech 30% bonus. It will just give players flexibility on being able to play whichever variant they prefer and still have a bonus of some sort to their gains and I am sure that PGI would be happy if you bought it for all your mechs. It's more like a create-your-own-founder's-mech than anything. They can make it a clickable upgrade that requires MC (like Endo Steel and DHS).

You seem to have missed the point. C-bills are good. You want as many as you can get. Yet, the hero mech or founders are not always the variant you wish to play with. By putting in an option to increase ANY mech's cbill value you are raising the bar. Because you can, because it would get you the better builds faster, it would be stupid not to do this for every mech. Therefore. Pay-2-Win.

[Elizander]

Brickyard, on 07 November 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

You seem to have missed the point. C-bills are good. You want as many as you can get. Yet, the hero mech or founders are not always the variant you wish to play with. By putting in an option to increase ANY mech's cbill value you are raising the bar. Because you can, because it would get you the better builds faster, it would be stupid not to do this for every mech. Therefore. Pay-2-Win.

C-bills are indeed good, that is why there are so many Founders. That is why people grab the YLW. The point is that this bonus already exists and it has been agreed that Boosters != Pay2Win in previous discussions or you may as well be upset over the mere existence of all Founders Mechs, the YLW, or any other future Hero/promotional mech they release.

Another is Premium time which provides both 50% EXP and C-bills which covers any mech you use. I don't think we'll be going into a discussion if that's P2W too, right?

This provides a smaller bonus to any mech you want, makes it more convenient for players to run the variant they want, and (as bolded in what I quoted) will make PGI more money to improve the game.

Edited by Elizander, 07 November 2012 - 09:39 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

And it is really Pay for convenience, get it sooner than later since almost all mech can be obtained with C-Bills.

That is already available for MC, Add Time at the bottom of the Launchpad. So for 7 days, 50% gain exp/c-bills would cost 1250 MC

Provides 50% gained Experience and 50% gained C-bills

1 day - 250 MC
3 days - 650 MC
7 days - 1250 MC
30 days - 2500 MC
180 days - 13500 MC

afaik, the add time window will only pop up if you have an MC balance.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 07 November 2012 - 10:31 PM.

[KaiserX]

Because most mmo publishers fail to see the true business behind monetization...
*FACEPALM*

It's all about the highest revenues, not about the best long-term revenues.

This means that the publishers are determined to acknowledge that this game won't last more than a year, in terms of gaining the most revenue.

Look how Nexon is doing it... Yeah everyone whines about how they are basically monetizing every potential idea... But in the end they are the ones who makes more and more money every year, from the same games no less...

And then you have general games that are loved by fans and yet monetized in a way that it's like a "VIP Lounge" where only those willing to pay up will gain benefits, and must pay according to the rules of the "FEES".

Where monetization == reputation.

It's down to two things:
- to make it so anyone can pay whatever they want and get what they want, but feel annoyed by each other because they don't feel unique.
- Everyone feels like they are members of a unique club so they can show off... At a cost of fixed pricing and standardization.

Edited by KaiserX, 07 November 2012 - 10:33 PM.

[Elizander]

KaiserX, on 07 November 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Because most mmo publishers fail to see the true business behind monetization...
*FACEPALM*

It's all about the highest revenues, not about the best long-term revenues.

This is viable for publishers because they only pay a certain fee to acquire a game which is much less than the cost of making it. With this smaller amount of investment they can easily burn the game out in under a year and make a profit then just discard the game or keep it running without further promotions for as long as the existing player-base pays for the server costs.

For those who create the game, if they farm out the license to multiple publishers, they might be able to get back what they spend if all of them turn in good profits for that year and maybe royalties for the next 2-3 years. There are still games that go the long haul but when you are looking at the stat sheets and P2W game (with less players) is making 2-3x more than F2P on a monthly basis for over a year or more, then you start thinking that it might not be such a good idea for your business.

I'm hoping that PGI can find a good balance. I've seen both sides and I've seen P2W games turn in a profit and die out in less than a year and I've seen some games go on for years longer and still not make as much. I've seen a few games that completely bombed out on day one too. Of course my experience is limited to the local market where I live.

Edited by Elizander, 07 November 2012 - 11:15 PM.

[Arcturious]

You can already do this, it's called premium time and it adds +50% to all your mechs.

I get what you are asking for, but technically I don't think they will do it as premium is already there, it just isn't a permanent bonus.

If you could do this to your favourite mechs once, why would you ever buy premium? They would just be devaluing their only real money maker at the moment.

[Draco Argentum]

Brickyard, on 07 November 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

You seem to have missed the point. C-bills are good. You want as many as you can get. Yet, the hero mech or founders are not always the variant you wish to play with. By putting in an option to increase ANY mech's cbill value you are raising the bar. Because you can, because it would get you the better builds faster, it would be stupid not to do this for every mech. Therefore. Pay-2-Win.

The more mechs you have with this bonus the lower the marginal utility of subsequent bonuses. Its great for a non founder like me, okay for an elite and fairly meh for a legendary, if you actually use your founder's mechs. As such its not increasing the cbill generation rate that people can get already by a substantial amount, its technically lowering it since the suggestion was 20% instead of 25%.

Wether the current levels of cbill boosting are p2w is a seperate question. If you think they are the take a look at the GXP system and try not to have your head explode.

[Kerosene]

I would do this; even if it was just a 10% bonus. But a nice 20% or 25% sounds great for 1250 MC!

[Xeven]

I believe some of the camo options will be more expensive and add bonuses like this to your mechs using the particular camo patterns.

[Sulf]

Elizander, on 07 November 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

C-bills are indeed good, that is why there are so many Founders. That is why people grab the YLW. The point is that this bonus already exists and it has been agreed that Boosters != Pay2Win in previous discussions or you may as well be upset over the mere existence of all Founders Mechs, the YLW, or any other future Hero/promotional mech they release.

Another is Premium time which provides both 50% EXP and C-bills which covers any mech you use. I don't think we'll be going into a discussion if that's P2W too, right?

This provides a smaller bonus to any mech you want, makes it more convenient for players to run the variant they want, and (as bolded in what I quoted) will make PGI more money to improve the game.

Ok I get it. I guess I'm just annoyed that my 120 dollars worth of founder mechs turned out to be mostly just some pretty paint jobs.

[Elizander]

Arcturious, on 08 November 2012 - 12:44 AM, said:

You can already do this, it's called premium time and it adds +50% to all your mechs.

I get what you are asking for, but technically I don't think they will do it as premium is already there, it just isn't a permanent bonus.

If you could do this to your favourite mechs once, why would you ever buy premium? They would just be devaluing their only real money maker at the moment.

The premium bonus stacks with the mech C-bill bonus. It does not override it. Premium will give you 50% more C-bills and a Founders Mech will give you an additional 25% more C-bills, so your total bonus is 75% C-bills. If you use a non-founders/hero mech, your bonus is only from premium which is 50% more C-bills. With this in place, if I wanted to play my K2 Catapult which I bought for either C-bills or MC, then I slap on this 20% onto it, I would get a 70% C-bill bonus (instead of just 50%) when I use my K2 Catapult.

Brickyard, on 08 November 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

Ok I get it. I guess I'm just annoyed that my 120 dollars worth of founder mechs turned out to be mostly just some pretty paint jobs.

It actually benefits you too. You pretty much got the Founders mechs at a very good deal, but you will want to play other mechs too right? Maybe you will want to play a Highlander, a Jagermech, or a Battlemaster (someday) over your Founders Atlas or Hunchback. This will allow you to play any mech they release from now on without 'losing' the Founders bonus that you got used to having with your main mechs. It doesn't take away from your Founders mechs either and their bonus is still higher. I'm a Legendary Founder too and I won't be playing my Atlas all the time. I want to play other mechs that come out and I want to have a way to maintain the bonus (in some way) to my earnings. I hope you can understand where I am coming from.

Kerosene, on 08 November 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

I would do this; even if it was just a 10% bonus. But a nice 20% or 25% sounds great for 1250 MC!

Hush! We are using the basic rules of bargaining. Start higher than what you really want in case they lower it to what is acceptable to them!

[Corvus Antaka]

+1

create a hero mech for yourself