21 replies to this topic

[Calmon]

Just to clarify:

The old matchmaking system always PREFER pugs vs premade!

Why?

Simple logic:

If you join as teams, lets say 3 assault, 2 heavy, 2 medium, 1 light.

The queue is filled with 2 teams:

- 1 assault, 2 heavy and 2 lights
- 4 medium, 4 assault

So now the problem: There was a class matchmaking! Assault of one side needed an assault on the other.

This means because none of the teams in quque matches the bigger team its matched against single PUG or 2-3 men teams which can easily fit bigger constalation.

So because the bigger teams find rarely other bigger teams with the same mech classes they get always smaller teams and/or single players!

The new system will improve this a lot!

Why?

Because now even the 'big' teams of 3-4 will have again more difficulties to find other big teams of same class. The other side of the 8 men can get in vica versa!

So the 4 player team comes to side a) and will get matched against one 2-player and 2 singles and on the other side there will be a 3-4 player team on side which also get class matched with more smaller teams/sigles.

So thanks for doing this! I'm perfectly fine with Phase 1 if it works like this.

Edited by Calmon, 06 November 2012 - 03:07 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

this was my hypothesis as well, but I think we'll need to do some actual testing to figure out whether it's working like this or not.

[Nain]

Thing is, I don't play to pug. I play to play with my friends... and now you say I have to pick 3 and that's it? Don't even know if I'm going to log on tonight

[dubplate]

Nain, on 06 November 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

Thing is, I don't play to pug. I play to play with my friends... and now you say I have to pick 3 and that's it? Don't even know if I'm going to log on tonight

Unfortunately you and your friends weren't as fun to play against for the pugs and rather than making a more frustrating experience for the newer player they are using this as a step to a better system.

[Joe Mallad]

Nain, on 06 November 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

Thing is, I don't play to pug. I play to play with my friends... and now you say I have to pick 3 and that's it? Don't even know if I'm going to log on tonight

now me and 3 friends are teamed up with 4 other random guys who dont want to play with you so they all run off or your 4 man team is teamed up with another 4 man team and both team think they are the team to listen too lol.

This will not work... phase 2 needs to come very quick!! Have aleady had guys in my unit say they are done playing until we can play as a full 8 man unit again.

[Asmosis]

4 works well. You take two random teams (doesnt matter what mechs they have) then for any mismatch you just fill in with pugs of the appropriate weight class. *any* two teams under the new system can face each other, whereas currently they can stack their teams for the highest probability of avoiding other teams (some do, not most).

Yoseful Mallad, on 06 November 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

now me and 3 friends are teamed up with 4 other random guys who dont want to play with you so they all run off or your 4 man team is teamed up with another 4 man team and both team think they are the team to listen too lol.

This will not work... phase 2 needs to come very quick!! Have aleady had guys in my unit say they are done playing until we can play as a full 8 man unit again.

Pugs feel the same way about you. And we feel the same about putting 8 man teams in their own league. Since everyone wants the same thing, i dont really get the amount of arguing about it.

Edited by Asmosis, 06 November 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[Joe Mallad]

Asmosis, on 06 November 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

4 works well. You take two random teams (doesnt matter what mechs they have) then for any mismatch you just fill in with pugs of the appropriate weight class. *any* two teams under the new system can face each other, whereas currently they can stack their teams for the highest probability of avoiding other teams (some do, not most).



Pugs feel the same way about you.

im not saying I dont want to play with pugs. And i understand they feel the same way. Im saying we should not be forced to have to play with others we dont know or dont want to play with every time we drop. I dont understand why if they are letting us drop as is up to 4 men, why not just have the option as of now where 4 man pre-mades can play other 4 man pre-mades (IF WANTED) and not have to worry about 4 other playes. Just a 4 vs 4 pre-made option or even a 4 vs 4 pug team option?

My problem is not all pugs want to work with their pre-made team mates once the match starts and or pre-mades having to team up dont always want to listen to suggestions from another pre-made team.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 06 November 2012 - 03:50 PM.

[Axeman1]

Yoseful Mallad, on 06 November 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

This will not work... phase 2 needs to come very quick!!

You are the minority.

There's no rush to fix matchmaking farther than beyond this point.

[jojobear]

It's a temporary but much needed channge.

MWO's matchmaking can be viewed as treating every pug player and partial-group as an 8 player group with each player having one of 5 different values: light, medium, heavy, assault, empty.

So 5^8 means that there are a total of 390,625 different group possibilities that the matchmaker must deal with initially.

The matchmaker then tries to fill in the empty slots of a group with other groups with empty slots, and this gives a full group of 8 with no empty values. This exponentially decreases the number of group possibilities the matchmaker must deal with.

However, 4^8 means that the matchmaker must still account for 65,536 different group possibilities. The chance of finding a group that exactly matches yours is dependent on the probability distribution curve over this range, and remember that the sum of the points of this curve over the range must equal 1. Imagine how small the percentage is for the group with even the highest probability assuming a normal gaussian distribution! Now try to imagine the likelyhood that your 8-man premade will be matched against another 8-man premade!

With this patch, we now have groups of 4. This exponentially decreases the number of groups possible even further. Let's see how:

5^4 is 625 before the matchmaker start filling empty slots. Once filled, 4^4 gives a total of 256 different group possibilities. This gives the matchmaker a much easier time of finding a matching group.

Now how about when 8v8 premade is implemented? Again we return to 65,536 group possilities. However, you will be garunteed to be matched against another 8-man premade.

The matchmaker is going to have a MUCH easier time matching up groups with their matchmaking plans.

Edited by jojobear, 06 November 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[Calmon]

Its far better now! People playing usually teams can feel like PUGs and get some understanding of balance issues.

We just have 2-4 4 men groups running with my team. Its only 2 weeks until phase 2 with team vs team fights start.

[Riffleman]

Pug stomping has been going on since teams were able to launch together.

2 weeks of having to work together with randoms wont kill you. Plus at least your still in SOME group. Most times the poor suckers on the other side are still 8 randoms. You still have a much better chance of winning or at least staying alive longer than most.

[Ultrabeast]

Lefty Lucy, on 06 November 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

this was my hypothesis as well, but I think we'll need to do some actual testing to figure out whether it's working like this or not.

I'm sure we all know what your "testing" will uncover with your little "anti-premade" group. That premades are all evil horrible people for wanting to play with their friends and liking competition.

[Calmon]

Not sure why you all think PUKs and Team players are different! They are not. Everybody in my team act as single sometimes. You never get your team ready at any time.

Besides that sure. Team vs. Single Players (including small teams) was the problem which is fixed now.

5+ will come soon so nobody should get serious problems for not playing with his team.

[Mu]

I'd rather fight other organized teams all day than get repeatedly teamkilled by idiots who shoot me in the back while trying to finish off whatever mech I'm fighting.

[Taram]

In all honesty it's annoying not to be able to drop with 8 friends but it's not been too bad. I've had to adjust tactics I use when leading a drop for the fact that 4 people are total unknowns and probably unable to be controlled but it didn't take long to adjust and adapt.

To steal a commonly used phrase in my most played MMO ever (EVE Online):
"Adapt or Die"

I'm looking forward to when we can drop as 8 man teams again but for now I'm actually getting perverse pleasure out of having to come up with new strategies and tactics that take into account 4 random factors on my team.

Frankly I still think we should still just use a drop lobby system but that's not my decision, unfortunately.

[Tuhalu]

At least half the games I played under the old system were with 2-4 player groups on voice comms anyway. And that was all it took to raise my winning rate immensely. The only difference this system makes is that on the really good nights when all my friends are on, we will have to split into two groups of four and try hard not to get in games against each other.

I do like the OPs thought that temporarily reducing groups to 4 man has made it possible to ensure that all groups (with some pugs) will at least find themself matched up against one other group (with some pugs) under the current simplistic matchmaking system.

It also means we can't make a group with an exact mix of mechs that is then forced on the other team as well (don't like fighting lights? Make an 8-man with 0 light mechs in it).

It also means (hopefully!) that we won't get stuck on the same end of the map in every damn game because big-bad premades always get the same end of the map (silly bug/oversight!).

Edited by Tuhalu, 07 November 2012 - 07:50 AM.

[Cmdr Harabec]

If two groups of four synchronize joining the game at the same time and are all connected via TS/vent/what have you to do so, it seems there's still a high likelyhood of those two teams of four being placed together on the same team. I don't think this is going to end up changing much when everyone realizes this is possible. It won't work all the time, but they almost assuredly will not end up fighting each other if they aren't running the same weight classes as each other due to that stipulation in matchmaking. I'm not sure how much this is really going to help except making it slightly more annoying for people to have to synchronize button press at the same time, but we'll see, I guess.

[Calmon]

Mu, on 07 November 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

I'd rather fight other organized teams all day than get repeatedly teamkilled by idiots who shoot me in the back while trying to finish off whatever mech I'm fighting.

Sure me too! But realize that the teamkillers/suiciders/going AFK are (mostly) always in the PUG side which make matches PUGS vs. 7-8 men team even worse. The 'normal' players just want to play single game got disadvantage over disadvantage over disadvantage. So don't complain about them! Accept it as part of the game which WE (as team players) never realized as a problem!

So much fairer now and team vs team are waiting to come in!

[GoaHead]

Me and my merc often play 8 vs 8 again other mercs, that is no more possible since the patch.
I hope they go to Metchmaking Step 2 as fast as possible because Playing with 4 uncoordinated randoms is terible.

[Jeff K Notagoon]

Riffleman, on 07 November 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

2 weeks of having to work together with randoms wont kill you.

There is no working together when it comes to randoms.