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Battlemech 18 - Blackjack


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#381 FupDup

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:03 PM

View PostSoeth, on 14 May 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

Well if using something outside current meta "op build" is the one way ticket for a person to die horribly, than it speaks more about a person than about the build imo.

Possessing mathematical superiority =/= lacking skill.

If anything, it means more skill because good players look for mistakes in their playstyle and seek to correct them to become better. For instance, maybe they notice that they don't check behind their back often enough and thus get ambushed often--in this case, they would pay more attention to their surroundings to improve their skill. Or, perhaps they run off without their team too often. Or maybe they stand out in the open too long. Maybe they notice that their aim is too twitchy so they try to practice stabilizing it. In games with customization, one of those mistakes is not taking the best gear for the situation--don't bring a knife to a gunfight, in other words. Let's look at the BJ:

Blackjacks seem to have a body type optimized for sniping. There are currently other mechs in-game that are better at sniping than the Blackjack; namely the Cataphract, Stalker, and Highlander. Sniping with a BJ gives you fewer weapons than those aforementioned heavy and assault mechs. The advantage of somewhat smaller hitbox size is diminished due to the sniping playstyle providing ample cover to hide behind--which offers more reliable protection than being small. Furthermore, mediums in general are physically too large--a Centurion for instance is the size of a heavy! The BJ probably won't be smaller by large enough of a margin for its body size to make any significant impact. They are very close in size to heavy mechs, but can't carry nearly as much armor. As a result, you will die faster to both snipers and flankers (lights in particular will love your weak armor). Taking a lighter mech doesn't free up tonnage or anything else for your team, so in a nutshell it is a waste to use it when there are other mechs that do the same job better.

If you try to use the Blackjack for brawling, then you won't have enough armor, firepower, or speed to make a tangible impact.


TL;DR: Using the Blackjack in MWO's current circumstances is very much similar to bringing a knife to a gunfight. The "you're a bad player if you can't win a gunfight with knives" argument (strongly exaggerated, you didn't say that explicitly but it was fairly implied) is seriously annoying. Note that this doesn't make it impossible to r@pe face with knives in a gun zone, it just makes it impractical and unlikely--especially when your enemy plans on making very good use of his guns.



View PostSoeth, on 14 May 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

And answering your question: atm shs have almost no viability vs dhs due current heat scheme, so if the question was something along the lines of: well you are using only shs, so you minmaxing yourself. Well there is a difference between running shs and only piloting assaults loaded with ppcs and defying other builds as viable all together.
Cheers-

The SHS question was intended to probe just how dedicated to the "play 4 fun" cause you were. There are seriously some people out there who say that SHS fit their playstyle better than DHS and I wanted to see if you fit into that demographic (apparently not, I would've had some serious fun linking exaggeratedly horrible builds on Smurfys).

Edited by FupDup, 14 May 2013 - 04:29 PM.


#382 KEMikos

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:18 PM

View PostNgamok, on 14 May 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:


I also do not like the doughnut around it's abdomen.


Little known fact: the Blackjack can't swim. That's an inflatable floaty ring in case it ends up on River City.

#383 Sennin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:38 PM

Truly sad that there is no BJ-1DB. :D

#384 Warlune

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:50 PM

Why do we care if the 1DB is missing... just put 2 LL and 4 ML on the 1X. There ya go, a 1DB...

#385 zudukai

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:58 PM

No BJ-2? boo!

BTW, that BJ-1x, what's it's loadout stock? all those pointless refrences to the TRO is useless if one does not physically OWN said book.

#386 Seth

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:03 PM

I carries four mediums lasers in the arms and four flamers in the side torsos. It has a stock 255 engine. So we know it will have 8 energy hardpoints and have a max speed of 119kph before speed tweak.

#387 Sennin

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:23 PM

View PostWarlune, on 14 May 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Why do we care if the 1DB is missing... just put 2 LL and 4 ML on the 1X. There ya go, a 1DB...


BJ-1DB has jumpjets and mounted all it's weaponry in the arms. Regardless, I would really have liked to have seen the BJ-2 included as well.

#388 zudukai

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:46 PM

View PostSennin, on 14 May 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

Regardless, I would really have liked to have seen the BJ-2 included as well.

it would easily have been the best one of all. without a doubt, could have mopped the floor with lights and be a fair contender with heavies.

#389 Kmieciu

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:58 PM

It all boils down to mech size and hit-boxes. I hope the blackjack is smaller than a HBK-4SP.
If the side torso hitboxes are small, like on a Trebuchet, everybody will run a XL255 which is a great light engine that leaves a lot of room for weapons

One interesting aspect is that the PPC on the BJ-3 are smaller than on the CPLT-K2. The funny thing is BJ-1X will be the first mech that allows you to put 3PPC in one arm :-) TBT-5J can already to that.
Got to try that build :-)
Posted Image

Posted Image

PS. The Blackjack is going to be dirt cheap at about 3.4 Million C-Bills. (excluding the DHS verion, but it would probably still more cost effective than upgrading to DHS)

Edited by Kmieciu, 16 May 2013 - 12:22 AM.


#390 Mynder

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:51 AM

Can we have the BJ-2 as a hero mech? Please?

#391 Demos

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 01:19 AM

View PostSeth, on 14 May 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

I carries four mediums lasers in the arms and four flamers in the side torsos. It has a stock 255 engine. So we know it will have 8 energy hardpoints and have a max speed of 119kph before speed tweak.

Stock Engine is a 225 so it would have a max speed of ~ 106 kph before speed tweak.

So, yeah, thanks no. Not interested in the BJ anymore with missing BJ2. Maybe when heat of the M(P)L will be adressed it could be interesting.

#392 Kiiyor

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 01:26 AM

View PostNgamok, on 14 May 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:


I also do not like the doughnut around it's abdomen.


It's for a belt.

Posted Image

#393 Mynder

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:31 AM

8 Energy Hardpoints sounds like something akin to 2 (ER?) Large Lasers plus 6 Small Lasers would be potentially viable (and with 6 SL still have reasonably nice short range DPS).

#394 Adridos

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:46 AM

View PostKmieciu, on 14 May 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

One interesting aspect is that the PPC on the BJ-3 are smaller than on the CPLT-K2.


Well, truth to say, the BJ-3 should be using Ceres Arms Smasher PPCs... we already have a mech that uses them... Cataphract.

#395 Amsro

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:04 AM

View PostKmieciu, on 14 May 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

One interesting aspect is that the PPC on the BJ-3 are smaller than on the CPLT-K2. The funny thing is BJ-1X will be the first mech that allows you to put 3PPC in one arm :-)


Close the Treb 5J has 3 PPC on one arm already. 30 pin point damage is nice.

#396 Shumabot

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:27 AM

View PostKmieciu, on 14 May 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

It all boils down to mech size and hit-boxes. I hope the blackjack is smaller than a HBK-4SP.
If the side torso hitboxes are small, like on a Trebuchet, everybody will run a XL255 which is a great light engine that leaves a lot of room for weapons

One interesting aspect is that the PPC on the BJ-3 are smaller than on the CPLT-K2. The funny thing is BJ-1X will be the first mech that allows you to put 3PPC in one arm :-)
Posted Image

Posted Image

PS. The Blackjack is going to be dirt cheap at about 3.4 Million C-Bills. (excluding the DHS verion, but it would probably still more cost effective than upgrading to DHS)


I always thought the PPC arms on the cat were nonsensically large. Look at those things, they're ridiculous.

#397 Shumabot

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:32 AM

View PostWarlune, on 14 May 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Why do we care if the 1DB is missing... just put 2 LL and 4 ML on the 1X. There ya go, a 1DB...


B-but, my redundant useless extra variant that serves no purpose except to be a noob trap! :(

#398 Ngamok

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:30 AM

View PostShumabot, on 14 May 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:


When was the last time the games fastest most well armed light was a medium mech? Also, when was the last time a centurion did that?


I've seen the YLW get to 900 recently. Also, the zombie Centurion on River City like 2 weeks ago, maybe 3, it's been some time, got close to 900 as well. Granted it's not almost 1300.

#399 Sennin

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:30 AM

View PostSeth, on 14 May 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

I carries four mediums lasers in the arms and four flamers in the side torsos. It has a stock 255 engine. So we know it will have 8 energy hardpoints and have a max speed of 119kph before speed tweak.

I guess on the brighter side of things you can always load up the 1X with 8 flamers and LOL people to death while you run around them at 132kph. :(

#400 Ngamok

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:32 AM

View PostLord de Seis, on 14 May 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

Lame that the BJ-1DB is missing, great varient.


Could be a planned Hero Mech.





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