90 replies to this topic

[Dihm]

And merge identical threads while you're at it.

[Vexgrave Lars]

Thanks Shep I got there eventually.. But that means Paul was wrong in what he said.

I am prepared, blindfolded and cigarette hanging from my lips for my disposal. Paul, you may fire when ready.

[wwiiogre]

yep more confusing than helpful

or

was it on purpose

You did say Paul made one of those statements

chris

[Mason Grimm]

That is actually discussed in the MechSpecs Break Down of the Q&A.

Quote

[color="#ffd700"]Guns! Lots and Lots of Guns![/color]

People were asking how the hardpoint system was going to work; would a PPC take up 3 hard point slots? How will hard points be added to mechs etc? Well it looks like a cross between the old hardpoint system and something totally new.

Quote

[DAVID] Hardpoints will limit the number of weapons that can be placed in a location on the ’Mech. The number of slots those weapons can occupy is not predefined (outside of the maximum number of slots in the location). So let’s say that I’m allowed 2 energy weapons in my right arm. I currently have 2 Medium Lasers which occupy 1 slot each. I would still be allowed to put in 2 Large Lasers, which occupy 2 slots each.

This means that if the mech has 2 Large Lasers in the Right Arm then you could put any combination of the the following in that same location....

• 2x PPC
  
• 2x Medium Lasers
  
• 2x Small Lasers
  
• 1x PPC + 1x Small Laser
  
• 1x Medium Laser + 1x Small Laser

.... or whatever other combination you can think up. This is as clear as I can explain it.

The only restrictions are "Number of Weapons in the Limb/Location to begin with" , "That you have the available tonnage to do so" and "number of critical slots available" (like TableTop rules).

I still don't understand?

OLD ARM
2 PPCs mean 2 Energy Weapon Hardpoints (1 weapon = 1 hardpoint)
2 PPCs use a total of 6 Critical Spaces (1PPC = 3 Critical Spaces)

AFTER REMOVING THE PPC
2 EMPTY Energy Weapon Hardpoints (1 PPC took up 1 Weapon Hardpoint)
6 Empty Critical Spaces (1 PPC = 3 Critical Spaces)

NEW ARM
2 Medium Lasers (1 Medium Laser = 1 Energy Weapon Hardpoint)
2 Critical Spaces Used (1 Medium Laser = 1 Critical Space)
4 Critical Spaces Open (you could fit equipment in here if you wanted)

[Felicitatem Parco]

Mason Grimm, on 18 April 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

So a mech has 2 PPC in the right arm? That means it has 2 Energy Weapon Hardpoints (which take up a total of 6 critical spaces). You could easily fit two medium lasers in the arm (taking up 2 hardpoints as well as 2 critical spaces) and have room for 4 pieces of equipment

But Paul said a single PPC can be replaced by two medium lasers...

[Karyudo ds]

Yeah Shepherd basically hit it on the head as well. The weapons currently require specific hardpoints to install and THEN the crit space for them. So both your examples were right while non-weapons do not yet require hardpoints but still require the critical slots. So not really like MW4...but kind of.

Vexgrave Lars, on 18 April 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

Thanks Shep I got there eventually.. But that means Paul was wrong in what he said.

Guessing it was a typo maybe... because what they said about the mechlab made it sound like you can't put multiple weapons into a single hardpoint as each one is for one weapon. Of course it's all WIP, next week we might not have any mechlab

[Gunmage]

Prosperity Park, on 18 April 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

But Paul said a single PPC can be replaced by two medium lasers...

I hope he was just misleading us. Because MW4 mechlab was... unsatisfying.

[Mechteric]

Its best to think of this from aesthetic point of view. If your mech's model only has 1 barrel in its arm, you can't rightly have 2 or 3 weapons firing out of that 1 barrel.

[Karyudo ds]

Prosperity Park, on 18 April 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

But Paul said a single PPC can be replaced by two medium lasers...

He may have meant as far as the critical slot requirements go as to not requiring you to fill all the critical slots...or something... I'm not sure why they picked such a confusing question.

[Mason Grimm]

I've updated that post of mine up above to be a little more clear...

Yes, a single PPC can be replaced by two medium lasers... assuming there is enough weapon hardpoints.

Hardpoints and Critical Spaces are different animals all together.

[Mason Grimm]

This should help with weapon hardpoint versus critical space clarification...

Scroll down to "Guns, Lots and Lots of Guns" portion of the post...

http://www.mechspecs...olts-of-the-Lab

[JadeTimberwolf]

I personally am hoping Paul is right in this case, simply because it fits more to the TT rules and also matches a number of varients that exist in the TT game.

[Mechteric]

Mason Grimm, on 18 April 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

I've updated that post of mine up above to be a little more clear...

Yes, a single PPC can be replaced by two medium lasers... assuming there is enough weapon hardpoints.

Hardpoints and Critical Spaces are different animals all together.

Perhaps one would have to assume in that location there was something alongside that PPC to provide that 2nd weapon hardpoint? Maybe a small laser or something.

JadeTimberwolf, on 18 April 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

I personally am hoping Paul is right in this case, simply because it fits more to the TT rules and also matches a number of varients that exist in the TT game.

that would be exactly like Mechwarrior 4, and it leads to some ugly configurations. For instance in my question near the top of the Q&A the scenario of the 10 medium laser Awesome. That just wouldn't be an Awesome anymore, but an overweight Blackhawk/Nova or something.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 18 April 2012 - 10:35 AM.

[Mason Grimm]

CapperDeluxe, on 18 April 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

Perhaps one would have to assume in that location there was something alongside that PPC to provide that 2nd weapon hardpoint? Maybe a small laser or something.

Yes.

Putting 2 Medium lasers means that there had to be two energy weapons in there before. Take off the two medium lasers and you have two critical spaces free AND two energy weapon hardpoints free. You could fit two small lasers in that section easily.

[Vexgrave Lars]

Karyudo-ds, on 18 April 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

Guessing it was a typo maybe... because what they said about the mechlab made it sound like you can't put multiple weapons into a single hardpoint as each one is for one weapon. Of course it's all WIP, next week we might not have any mechlab

That would really be screwy for locations with missiles and energy in the same place for instance...IE remove a PPC, and an LRM pack, you get 12 crits and devote them all to SRMs.. and not use the energy HP.

.

Mason Grimm, on 18 April 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

Yes.

Putting 2 Medium lasers means that there had to be two energy weapons in there before. Take off the two medium lasers and you have two critical spaces free AND two energy weapon hardpoints free. You could fit two small lasers in that section easily.

Mason, your saying Paul was wrong. because when he stated that... he had not accounted for the EHP requirement.
You cannot replace 1 PPC, 1 EHP, with 2 Med Lasers.. You need 2 EHP in the variant to do that.

[Mason Grimm]

Vexgrave Lars, on 18 April 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

That would really be screwy for locations with missiles and energy in the same place for instance...IE remove a PPC, and an LRM pack, you get 12 crits and devote them all to SRMs.. and not use the energy HP.

.

You could not do that because there was only 1 Missile Weapon in there before (1 missile launcher means 1 missile hardpoint). If you remove the LRM Pack then you could only replace it with 1 missile weapon (1 SRM2 OR 1 SRM4, OR 1 SRM6) You could NOT load it up with SRMs cause you don't have enough missile hardpoints. Critical Spaces are irrelevant at that point.

[Vexgrave Lars]

Got it.
Thanks Grimm

MARAUDER.. its the only way to be sure.

[MaddMaxx]

Karyudo-ds, on 18 April 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

Actually...



(slots being the criticals)

So by that, you could specifically upgrade a large laser to a PPC. The critical slots have nothing to do with the hard points. You would in theory be limited to say up to 2 energy weapons AND would have to fit them into the critical space provided by the arm. However you would have as much of it as you could free up to do so.

I read it as this as well. Weapon location is typed, not sized. If the Arm has 2 weapon slots, both Energy based, you could put 2 PPC's on that arm as an arm can hold that many crits and the Mech based on weight, can handle the load.

As such, the Variants available will be selected very specifically by the Dev to prevent "Boats" as many variants have a lot of weapon slots by default as their weight increases and that would make them very upgradable if allowed to be fielded.

We can now assume that HEAT and HS's will be a very large component, otherwise we will be seeing a lot of PPC/AC20 based Mechs.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 18 April 2012 - 10:47 AM.

[Orzorn]

Personally, I'm very glad for this system. It removes the variable sized hardpoints of Mechwarrior 4 in favor of having a one-size-fits-all hardpoint system. This pretty much eliminates boats, except for canon boats. So you can't do what was mentioned and have an Atlas with 10 medium lasers, since you will ONLY ever have 4 hardpoints (or potentially a few more, if they add hardpoints that are not used within the normal variant, which is totally a possibility, and something I hope they will explore).

Edit: However, I do think it has potential to hurt mechs that only mount one weapon type. I mean, are 3 large lasers ever going to be better than the 3 PPCs of an Awesome? Less range and less damage...perhaps they will balance it out with recycle times.

Edited by Orzorn, 18 April 2012 - 10:50 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Orzorn, on 18 April 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

Personally, I'm very glad for this system. It removes the variable sized hardpoints of Mechwarrior 4 in favor of having a one-size-fits-all hardpoint system. This pretty much eliminates boats, except for canon boats. So you can't do what was mentioned and have an Atlas with 10 medium lasers, since you will ONLY ever have 4 hardpoints (or potentially a few more, if they add hardpoints that are not used within the normal variant, which is totally a possibility, and something I hope they will explore).

The Stock Atlas has 7 Weapon hard points.

• 1 x Autocannon/20
  
• 1 x LRM-20
  
• 1 x SRM-6
  
• 4 x Medium Lasers

So best one could get would be 2 PPC's LA, RA, or 4LL (or 4 erLL/erPulse) to replace the 4 x ML. Of course something would have to be lost, HS's or armor, or another weapon system.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 19 April 2012 - 08:21 AM.