51 replies to this topic

[Johannes Falkner]

Solis Obscuri, on 19 April 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

I think flamers producing 3 heat, while delivering 2 damage and 2 heat to a target, works fine. I prefer they have limited duration and a re-cycle time so a single flamer isn't god-mode powerful like it was in MW2 Mercs/GBL. The hardpoint system should eliminate any major boating problems.

Why am I having visions of Swaybacks with flamers dancing through my head?

[r1oh7]

Solis Obscuri, on 19 April 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

I really hope we have a destructible environment, though, so they can be used to set fires - that would be awesome!

That's an amazing idea! Smoke screen/create a fog by burning snow/forest, it'd really push the ambush idea that was posted in another thread, mm I don't think it'd be that hard to program either, they already have a fully functional smoke effect from weapon damage etc.
Someone posted that flamers should do allot of damage to mechs, the reason why allot of people are saying it shouldn't according to the lore is because the armour of mechs is ablative, meaning it doesn't have the same kind of properties as metal and is actually really thin, which is designed to break off (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Just curious, according to the MW lore, does a mech's sensors work by detecting heat signatures? I vaguely remember reading something like that a long while ago, cause you could then create a "false reading" on the radar by lighting a building on fire that'd be an epic addition, make things so much more interesting! But a pain to implement....

[Rejarial Galatan]

r1oh7, on 21 April 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

That's an amazing idea! Smoke screen/create a fog by burning snow/forest, it'd really push the ambush idea that was posted in another thread, mm I don't think it'd be that hard to program either, they already have a fully functional smoke effect from weapon damage etc.
Someone posted that flamers should do allot of damage to mechs, the reason why allot of people are saying it shouldn't according to the lore is because the armour of mechs is ablative, meaning it doesn't have the same kind of properties as metal and is actually really thin, which is designed to break off (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Just curious, according to the MW lore, does a mech's sensors work by detecting heat signatures? I vaguely remember reading something like that a long while ago, cause you could then create a "false reading" on the radar by lighting a building on fire that'd be an epic addition, make things so much more interesting! But a pain to implement....

I fear a smoke screen idea such as you propose may be more coding than its worth honestly. And truth be told, if i was on a snow map and saw a ton of steam, im turning and looking for cover because either A a mech is going critical or there is B something seriously wrong ahead of me and a new route is advised. Same on the forest map honestly

[3Xtr3m3]

Run toward the enemy in a city, Stop, start to ignite buildings while slowly backing up. Make the enemy come to you through an Inferno.

Evil Evil plan but I would not mind seeing it in game.

[Rejarial Galatan]

While that sounds like fun 3X but, its just not viable coding wise. not given the time frame we have from PGI.

[Noztrill]

This poll should be how many people are gonna build shadow cat flame boats opening day. Why are anti personnel weapons even being considered. Where's that poll?

[Bodha]

Honestly I hope they put flamers in game, but I want them to have a lesser impact to the shooter's heat level and a more major impact on the enemies you hit with it. Also I would really like it if it operated like a flame THROWER and shot the flame in a burst that arcs. Last but not least would like the range to be roughly 120meters if you can get the hang of arcing it.

[Knight2pwn]

I only want the Firestarter put into the game. It was so useless it was cute.

[SparkSovereign]

I'll be running a Jenner with 4x Flamer + Narc, so as to combine the dreaded "shutdown imminent" with incoming missiles. Woe betides the laser boats.

[Schtirlitz]

Stick to Atlas leg and shower it with fire

[bpphantom]

I'd like to see flamers used to help shape a battlefield. Funnel the enemy to the point where you want to engage by lighting the forest up behind them, etc.

[Lupin]

Like with a lot MW weapons useful but could be mis-used, so again would need balance. Other as already said could/will just over power game.

I had a custom mech in 2 of the MW and in board game VERY able to remove a lot of other mechs with little effort. And short of good shooting you (The target) was your own worse enemy (You shooting making it easier to suit you down and kick your head in).

[Gutentag]

Wasnt the heat increase limited in TT?

[Grunkzzz]

Flamers should stick to the opponent and raise heat for an amount of time then burn off

[Butane9000]

Okay. I think holding down flamers until you either over heat or let off the trigger is the way to go.

I don't think they should have a recycle time as the time it takes to dissipate heat should be plenty.

Any armor damage should be minimal, like machine guns, and instead focus on generating lots of heat. An added bonus might be "softening" the armor on the target increasing damage from other weapons.

[bpphantom]

Grunkzzz, on 17 July 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

Flamers should stick to the opponent and raise heat for an amount of time then burn off

That's inferno rounds on SRMs. Speaking of... have they confirmed inferno ammo?

[Gutentag]

A turn in TT is 10 seconds, so if they make the flamer constant stream then it should do its effects in a 10 second timeframe. 3dmg + 2 heat or whatever it was.
It would be easier to implement and better for the shooter if it was a short shot that did instant dmg and the heat effect was over 10 second timeframe.
Or halve the effects and have it shoot twice every 10 seconds.

Edited by Gutentag, 17 July 2012 - 11:49 AM.

[Ranager]

True lorddeathstrike, if the devs make a fuel tanks for the famer i will be more than a little angry

[Twisp]

I think the middle ground works best for this situation. Light damage, high heat, limited-but-continuous stream.

[Xandralkus]

Mechcommander 1 featured the 'Heavy Flamer' - a rather large weapon that could do significant burst damage at short range. The theory behind this was that the flamer was less of a conventional flamethrower and more of a plasma cannon, venting a burst of superheated plasma from the mech's reactor. Flamers in Mechcommander 2 did damage to enemy units - and a pretty significant amount of it - but were horribly gimped by massive heat generation.

A weapon that causes heat on the enemy target alone and does little else fulfills a very small niche in the game. It would barely be worth classifying as a weapon - more like a piece of slightly useful tactical equipment.

I would like to see the MWO flamer follow Mechcommander 1, and exist as a useful brawling weapon. It should not be useless against any mech, regardless of their heat management capabilities. The fact that it applies heat to the target should be a purely ancilliary function.

Flamers should do less DPS than lasers, or perhaps weigh more and do similar DPS, but the rate of fire should be low. Low enough to justify large bursts of damage as opposed to the faster recharging and more sustained damage of lasers. Personally, I'd like to see a stream of fire for 1 second or so, mimicking the short damage-over-time of other energy weapons.

Remember that lasers flash-melt or flash-vaporize things on contact as a method of doing damage. Technically, this should apply 'heat' to the mech, but it is apparently not a statistically significant amount, even among spectacular laser barrages. Even a white-hot jet of superheated plasma shouldn't interfere too greatly with heat dissipation.

What is good game design and what is historically accurate are not always the same. Mechwarrior Online is a game, not a Battletech historical documentary. As such, game design comes first.

TLDR: The primary objective of a weapon is to do damage. This model works for a reason. Flamers are weapons - and first and foremost, they should do damage. Any other effect they cause (heat) should be purely secondary.

Edited by Xandralkus, 17 July 2012 - 12:00 PM.