12 replies to this topic

[Shephard]

First: Not asking for any input regarding hardpoints, criticals, weight, or ANY GAME MECHANICS regarding the mech lab, this thread is purely about graphical and cosmetic changes

In the recent Dev blog a question like this was asked concerning this (Guy asked about replacing laser A with laser B, answer was that the lens color will change), but was not really answered to my satisfaction. I want to know how much -- if at all -- the model of the mech will change based on what you add/remove in the mechlab.

For example, the Awesome comes stock with three PPCs, on in the arm, and two in the torso. Lets say I rip off both torso PPCs, and use that extra weight for armor, larger engine, whatever. When I drop into my next match, will the model of my Awesome still have those PPCs there, or will they be gone?

Or lets say I have a centurion. I rip the LRM launcher out of it's chest. Will it still show up on the mech? Lets say I want to replace the AC/10 with an AC/20. Will the weapon on it's arm get bigger to show this change?


Basically, will you be able to visually identify what weapons another mech has/doesn't have just by looking at it, or will you have to wait until it starts shooting at you before you realize that Large laser was replaced with a PPC?

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Short answer, probably.

[Big Mek Jake]

I would think (and hope) that there will be cosmetic changes to the mechs just based on the concept art.

[Cattra Kell]

They have said recently that it would BUT if for example the weapon is in the chest, the weapon might not look different due to only the lens or barrels being visible. If the weapon is on an exposed part like the arm, they have said that if you change it in the lab that it would change the look on the battlefield.

Quote

Will weapon changes be visually represented? –Helmer

[DAVID] Yes they will, though some weapons may end up looking very similar. For instance, if a laser is fully embedded into a ’Mech’s torso, so that all you see is the lens, that lens is probably going to look the same for a Small, Medium, or Large Laser. Though the beam fired by the laser will be indicative of the type of laser installed there.

Edited by Cattra Kell, 19 April 2012 - 08:17 AM.

[Colddawg]

I think there will definitely be a difference between an LRM-20 and an SRM 6.

[Aegis Kleais]

I think they said that you WILL see a weapon's change, but they gave an example that in some cases, when a weapon in mounted inside the torso rather than on extremities like a Catap's 'ears' or a Mech's arms, you might not see it jutting out, and instead, just see the lens for a laser (but you'd be able to tell the laser by it's beam color)

So if you put dual PPCs on a Catap's 'ears', I'm sure you won't see missile silo boxes up there, but 2 visible PPC cannons, since they are not mounted "inside" the physical model of the torso or some other concealing location.

[Jaroth Corbett]

OK I have not read all the developer interviews or listened to all of the podcasts, so I will make this post based on my limited knoweldge of the BT universe & past experience with previous games.

Regarding the timeline we are launching with, the mechs of the IS should be standard. There may be one or two variants (correct me if I am wrong regarding MWO) but they basically look the same. e.g The Centurion has a ballistic weapon in its right arm. Even if the specific type of ballistic weapon was changed, the arm looked the same. If your mech has arms & there is a PPC slotted there, the arm looks the way it always does. If there is no weapon loaded in the arm, the arm is there just with nothing in it. If your mech has missile racks, whether or not missiles are loaded there, the racks are present on the mech.

The introduction of the OnmiMech (a Clan product ) changes all of this. Weapons are basically loaded into pods. So if there is a pod shaped for missiles, each type of missle has its own pod shape & design. The same holds true for ballistic & energy weapons. Sadly this was not observed in MW3, MW3:PM, MW4:V, MW4:BK or MW4:M. However it was done for MWLL. When you looked at the different variants for a mech, you could see the difference in the appearance of the weapons on it.

As I said, I have not kept current with the info for MWO (RL issues prevent this presently) but hopefully they would have taken a page out of MWLL's book & followed suit.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 19 April 2012 - 10:00 AM.

[RedDragon]

Jaroth Winson, on 19 April 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

OK I have not read all the developer interviews or listened to all of the podcasts, so I will make this post based on my limited knoweldge of the BT universe & past experience with previous games.

And why exactly DO you make this post then? The OP asked about ingame mechanics, not how it is handled in BT. Even then, I don't think there's anything to support your opinion, quite the opposite - there are some instances where mechs of different variants are depicted with different artwork.
And the Devs already stated that there will be visual differences, as quoted by Cattra Kell above.

Quote

Basically, will you be able to visually identify what weapons another mech has/doesn't have just by looking at it, or will you have to wait until it starts shooting at you before you realize that Large laser was replaced with a PPC?

I for one hope that the changes will be quite visual, but I don't think it will make that much difference on the battlefield. To notice that the PPC is replaced by a large laser, you would have to get quite close to the enemy and in that case he'd already started shooting it on you
But as a factor for a deeper immersion I'd guess it'd be quite useful and a cool gimmick, never before seen in a MW title.

[Corbon Zackery]

If you do the grapics right it should be a simple skin change.

If played with the code correctly Micky Mouse could run around the battlefield blowing up mechs with his bubble gun.

All the data code would have you in a 100 ton Atlas

But the Graphic skin code is Micky Mouse.

So if they code basic graphics for every weapon and code a graphic for every hardpoint.

But Right now it look like there being lazy or time crunched. Thats why the hardpoints are being created so they only have to write one code for that arm.

But given the time you could write a Grapic code so Connan O"brian is running around a battlefield blasting people with his fingers.

The Perfect example is the Orignal Doom: You could down load a patch to turn all the Red Blobs into Bill Clintion heads that shoot Raise taxes statements.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 19 April 2012 - 11:34 AM.

[verybad]

Weapons changes in some cases can be handles similiarly to how weapons in more common FPS handle weapons changes. The large number of varieties of mechs, weapons locations, and weapons make it necessary to have a well thought out modularity to the weapons or it becomes pretty much impossible to make it work, but it is possible.

Weapons changes on the torso for things like missle packs or lasers could be handled through texture changes similiar to icons.

Eg, a missile pack would change it's look depending on the size of the pack and maybe type of missles. The geometry isn't necessarilly changing however. (speculation on my part)

Arms based weapons are easier to handle in a more traditional manner as they don't intercept with the torso and cause potential problems in how things look. (eg a Quake model carrying a BFG or a shotgun), the geometry is attached to the arm at a designated place. Using modular design, it can work well.

Edited by verybad, 19 April 2012 - 11:52 AM.

[Helmer]

Corbon Zackery, on 19 April 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

If you do the grapics right it should be a simple skin change.

If played with the code correctly Micky Mouse could run around the battlefield blowing up mechs with his bubble gun.

All the data code would have you in a 100 ton Atlas

But the Graphic skin code is Micky Mouse.

So if they code basic graphics for every weapon and code a graphic for every hardpoint.

But Right now it look like there being lazy or time crunched. Thats why the hardpoints are being created so they only have to write one code for that arm.

But given the time you could write a Grapic code so Connan O"brian is running around a battlefield blasting people with his fingers.

The Perfect example is the Orignal Doom: You could down load a patch to turn all the Red Blobs into Bill Clintion heads that shoot Raise taxes statements.

Its more than a simple skin change, there are physical difference in the weapons themselves.

How is the hardpoint system lazy? I seems more of a solution to 'mech boating. However, yes, it keeps variants in the same general theme.


The rest of your posting was incomprehensible to me. Sorry.



Cheers.

Edited by Helmer, 19 April 2012 - 11:56 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

RedDragon, on 19 April 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

And why exactly DO you make this post then?

I was stating my hopes for the visual changes to be made & simply stated that from what I saw before anything less would be a step backward. Problem?

[mbt201188]

Aegis Kleais™, on 19 April 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

I think they said that you WILL see a weapon's change, but they gave an example that in some cases, when a weapon in mounted inside the torso rather than on extremities like a Catap's 'ears' or a Mech's arms, you might not see it jutting out, and instead, just see the lens for a laser (but you'd be able to tell the laser by it's beam color)

So if you put dual PPCs on a Catap's 'ears', I'm sure you won't see missile silo boxes up there, but 2 visible PPC cannons, since they are not mounted "inside" the physical model of the torso or some other concealing location.

This! This sounds like what the devs meant as far as cosmetic changes.

Corbon Zackery, on 19 April 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

If you do the grapics right it should be a simple skin change.

If played with the code correctly Micky Mouse could run around the battlefield blowing up mechs with his bubble gun.

All the data code would have you in a 100 ton Atlas

But the Graphic skin code is Micky Mouse.

So if they code basic graphics for every weapon and code a graphic for every hardpoint.

But Right now it look like there being lazy or time crunched. Thats why the hardpoints are being created so they only have to write one code for that arm.

But given the time you could write a Grapic code so Connan O"brian is running around a battlefield blasting people with his fingers.

The Perfect example is the Orignal Doom: You could down load a patch to turn all the Red Blobs into Bill Clintion heads that shoot Raise taxes statements.

You're lucky that PGI is making a new Mechwarrior game at all. And considering the short amount of time they've actually been working on it I think they are doing incredible work.