51 replies to this topic

[Rathverge]

Probably already in the works, big system, small amount of people. They are working out matchmaking, arranged battles, training grounds and faction warfare. Will wait for beta to END before demanding the devs work on items already stated to be WIP

[Thorn Hallis]

The real question to be asked is: If you are only able to drop with exactly 8 people, what does the line "Uneven Teams: Yes" mean?

[Chemie]

and what about when you drop with 7. Does MM try to balance weight or just grab random pug?

[Shredhead]

Thorn Hallis, on 11 November 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

The real question to be asked is: If you are only able to drop with exactly 8 people, what does the line "Uneven Teams: Yes" mean?

You can drop with 5-8 people, that's what it means.

Chemie, on 11 November 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

and what about when you drop with 7. Does MM try to balance weight or just grab random pug?

Empty slots will not be filled with PuGs, so it's your choice and challenge if you want to get in fight understrength. Also neither weight nor class balance for the start.

Edited by Shredhead, 11 November 2012 - 05:52 AM.

[Hekalite]

It seems that some here might be misunderstanding what the OP is suggesting. In phase 2, the team versus team queue does not have weight matching and allows uneven teams (i.e. 5v8). This is a call for organized teams to self restrict to a weekly drop limit. This is meant to be a temporary measure while PGI works on phase 3.

[FrostPaw]

I had an idea for a tonnage system, players would select one mech for each tonnage band, i.e. light, med, heavy and assault. Then you gather up 16 players in the match maker and you randomly assign each player one of those four mechs based on team composition, say 2 lights, 2 meds, 2 heavies and 2 assault.

Each match you drop in a mech type adds bias to the randomization of future matches, this means if your last game was in a med you're less likely to be put in your med for the following match.

I realize not everyone has one of each weight class but there is as default one of each class in trial mechs. This idea is based on the concept that you can't convince 16 random people to choose mechs cooperatively before they drop and so it must be done automatically and everyone must have the opportunity to drop in all sizes of mech. It is a fair way to balance teams, but it doesn't account for player skill.

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

Shredhead, on 11 November 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

You can drop with 5-8 people, that's what it means.

Empty slots will not be filled with PuGs, so it's your choice and challenge if you want to get in fight understrength. Also neither weight nor class balance for the start.

and

Hekalite, on 11 November 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

It seems that some here might be misunderstanding what the OP is suggesting. In phase 2, the team versus team queue does not have weight matching and allows uneven teams (i.e. 5v8). This is a call for organized teams to self restrict to a weekly drop limit. This is meant to be a temporary measure while PGI works on phase 3.

= wrong.

Patch notes:

Quote

Players will be able to convert their 4-player group to an 8-player group similarly to how World of Warcraft’s group to raid conversion works. With a click of a button, a group leader can convert a 4-player group to 8-players and invite 4 more players to the group. There is a limitation to this however. If the group leader decides to convert to an 8-player group, they MUST have 8 players in order to launch. (i.e. you cannot launch a game with 5,6 or 7 players). In addition to that, your 8-player group will be matched to another 8-player group ONLY.

There won't be a class restriction, but if you decide to drop with more than 4 players it will be ONLY 8 (NOT less) and they will be ALWAYS matched against other groups of 8. With the class restriction still active this would mean you likely won't find games to begin with, except you're setting something up for 2 units.

And thats the whole purpose of this thread: units who want to actually have a real challenge and experience some gaming on a competitive level agreeing on a certain dropdec which is getting used for (i.e.) a week. After that, change it up. This would prevent the most of us from running into unbalanced (mechwise) teams and should put up some good fights.

Gimpy Warpig, on 10 November 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

Sorry Wadde, I think this is the wrong way to go. Put limitations on the pug groups, and provide a means for organized teams wthout any limitations on mechs is the way to go. Organized battles are self-policed if we can actually HAVE organized play. Which is where I'd like to see PGI do SOMETHING. What we have is extremely little, less than the bare minimum.

Fully agree Piggy, but as of right now we simply don't have more and I think people are getting sick of rolling PUG's on the same 4 (lmao, not counting forest colony alternate) maps over and over again. Hell, I know I AM tired and I think some competitive play would change it up. All of those phases are bollox, but at least we get the chance to make something out of phase 2.
You know, life gives you citrons and you simply make lemonade of them.

Edited by WaddeHaddeDudeda, 11 November 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[Hekalite]

WaddeHaddeDudeda, on 11 November 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

= wrong.

Patch notes:


There won't be a class restriction, but if you decide to drop with more than 4 players it will be ONLY 8 (NOT less) and they will be ALWAYS matched against other groups of 8. With the class restriction still active this would mean you likely won't find games to begin with, except you're setting something up for 2 units.

When you take such a harsh tone, be sure you are using current information. The initial plan for phase 2 was only 8. I have included a link and quote from the command chair post with the current information.

http://mwomercs.com/...79-matchmaking/

Quote

Phase 2: November 20th

Pre-Made groups will be able to match against other pre-made groups.

• Min group size: 4 players
  
• Max group size: 8 players
  
• Class Matching: No
  
• Uneven Teams: Yes

Edited by Hekalite, 11 November 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[Bluddwolf]

Here is my proposal... Go back to the way it was before. Let us form 8 man teams and be done with it. This new 4-man grouping is totally ridiculous. Most of the time, half the team knows what they are doing and the other half just wanders off and does their own thing.

This is a squad-based, tactical, PVP game. It is not World of Warcrap battlegrounds. So what if pugs get owned! They have the same opportunity to join a group, get on a headset and organize their own drops.

I have not been playing long, but going from the 8-man to the 4-man grouping has seriously sucked the fun out of the game.

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

Sorry Hekalite, didn't wanted to sound of harsh.
Just being efficient, you know?

Bad enough that they didn't sent out the news vie email (cant be arsed to wade through that huge forum everyday to gather all necessary informations) - but allowing you to drop with less than 8 is just bad.
Once again a strike into the face of the people who want to play at a competitive level. o_O

Apart from that you recapped the intentions of my post absolutely right!

Edited by WaddeHaddeDudeda, 11 November 2012 - 03:13 PM.

[Tasorin]

Back to the top for .05 seconds.

I as well like the same things.

Pew-Pew you later.

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

BUMPAGE!

[Vila deVere]

Bluddwolf, on 11 November 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

Here is my proposal... Go back to the way it was before. Let us form 8 man teams and be done with it. This new 4-man grouping is totally ridiculous. Most of the time, half the team knows what they are doing and the other half just wanders off and does their own thing.

This is a squad-based, tactical, PVP game. It is not World of Warcrap battlegrounds. So what if pugs get owned! They have the same opportunity to join a group, get on a headset and organize their own drops.

I have not been playing long, but going from the 8-man to the 4-man grouping has seriously sucked the fun out of the game.

And it hasn't helped the Pugs, at least from my point of view. I'm still winning fights at a 10-1 ratio and still have a KDR in the 12-1 region. Frankly, 4 decent pilots coordinating with each other is usually more than enough to tip the fight.

The only effect from my point of view is that the game has become less tactical for the teams. 4 isn't enough to really exercise role warfare, so we wind up doing generic mixes and our plan is often "let's see what the pugs do." WE're still winning, it's just less interesting.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I wonder if PGI is going to use a "Skill" based system (stat based), or C-Bill based (weight + tech) or combination of the two. I do have concerns about seeing large numbers of inexpensive Jenner assassin squads with really good pilots.

[Tasorin]

You know I am all for this.

I expect to see a ton of 4 Atlas + 4 Catapult's though in a lot of matches.

Ya'know because baddies like it on easy mode.

I personally think that Phase 2 is going to be another exercise in the cruddy end of the stick for the Core Community.

Notice we haven't seen a single metric on how much RL $'s the title has taken in since the Founders Pack's officially closed for sale and we went into Open Beta.

[Screech]

Quickest and cleanest way would be to reward groups that drop lighter. Make cost associated to each ton a group drops with which is then deducted from the winnings and salvage. Lighter your group drops more your group will win. Games are so much better that reward good players, then restricting all players.

[MalkarWSF]

WaddeHaddeDudeda, on 08 November 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

Okay,

let's face it: if you're here for competitive gaming this game is certainly nothing for you at the moment because it's simply fubar'd. Lots of broken stuff, no variety to keep you interested longer than a couple games and last but not least a completely ******** matchmaking.

As we all know we'll have at least a chance again to have organized (= fun) drops once phase 2 hits the servers in (hopefully) a couple weeks.
But what we all know too is the fact that the matchmaking will ignore all weightclasses for 8vs8 games by then, most likely to make those games even happens to begin with.
It would still suck to run with [overdramatize]8 Jenners into 8 Atlas or something like that[/overdramatize].

To put up a fair and challenging fight competitive games require both teams to bring the same tonnage to the table or, as long as this isn't implemented, at least the same mech classes.

What's the opinion from the teams who're actually looking as much forward to the phase 2 patch as I do, because they really really want something else from this relentless PUG-stomping?

Would you people be up to agree on a specific dropdec to run once phase 2 hits the servers? This way we could have quick and organized, balanced games without doing sync drops or going through all the other hassle.

Teams could start out with the ever classical 2-2-2-2 and probably change it up every week. It could be posted here in the thread or elsewhere.

What do you guys think?
Can I get an aye or nay?

Honestly this is a moot point. Unless PGI gets off their collective backsides and starts introducing the metagame they are going to lose to many people. People are leaving the game because smashing your head against the same 8v8 mechanic over and over is causing people to become bored.

I agree that a better match making would breathe life back into the game for a short time, but it will not last. PGI needs to get to work on more maps, game types and community warfare. They are waiting on December to even make an announcement about community warfare and if they is late December I think they are going to see a lot of people leaving for greener pastures. This is going to cut into their revenue and then they are going to make bad choices to try to get people to play and generate cash like 3rd person mode.

They should have never opened up open beta (lets face it open beta is just code for release with bugs) without a being a hell of a lot closer to launching the metagame, more maps and game modes. They basically cut their own revenue generating throat.

Edited by MalkarWSF, 19 November 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[FactorlanP]

I think that they should allow 8 man drops to drop with whatever tonnage mix that they like, but give the lighter team a bonus multiplier to their C-Bills (win or lose) based upon the weight differential.

I think you would see teams trying to drop with the lightest weight they need to do the job.

Of course, knockdown needs to return and the lag shield needs fixed for this to work.

[Broceratops]

i dont really see the problem with running 8 jenners or 8 atlases or something extreme like that. could you call it cheesy? maybe, but if you are going to restrict on weight class, then when does it end? clearly a jenner is better than a commando and a catapult is better than a dragon. should we then restrict number of jenners and commandos used within the light and heavy bracket?

i'd be happier letting units establish a meta with other units being able to challenge it any way they can think of. I would like to think the vision the devs have is that there would be multiple mech compositions that are competitive, rather than us having to enforce our own rules to make it so.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Sounds like a plan to me, we'll drop whatever the weekly set up is, in dire need of some competitive games to get rid of this pug stomp rust.