251 replies to this topic

[Sybreed]

Hi folks,

first of all, I was very happy with PGI's decision to nerf LRMs. They were everywhere and their low skill/high reward component made them way too good.

But now, they feel very, very weak. I'm not sure if something is broken in the mechanics, but it seems like my lrms hit a lot less than they used too. I see them hit the mech in the face, yet I don't see much damage done to the target. Also, their damage seem to be way lower than 1.7 per missile. In a match where I used my Catapult, I fired all of my 1080 missiles and I thought around 75% of my salvos got good hits. I did 410 damage, and that's counting the few times I used my 4 med lasers.

In another match, a friendly Atlas boated LRMs+ Artemis. I watched him (I died quick) fire his salvos during the entire match and he also got good hits. I thought he had dealt over 700 damage. 375 damage. Really? Something doesn't feel right here.

Finally, the LRM nerf had an unforeseen side effect of making mixed builds completely unviable. You have to boat LRMs or switch to SRMs. My stock Centurion-A used to deal over 500 damage when I played smart. Even though I used a "balanced" build, I was a big threat on the field. Now, I never get above 250 damage done/match and I have much more trouble getting kills.

Perhaps LRMs got nerfed more than what was intended? They felt pretty balanced before OB started. Now, I don't see the point of keeping a LRM 10 on my centurion. If my AC arm gets chopped off, I'm pretty much useless.

[rgreat]

They are OK.

But PGI need to reintroduce cocpit rocking effect then hit by LRM, IMHO.

Edited by rgreat, 08 November 2012 - 10:33 PM.

[WarMonkey14]

nope. cent is a rough mech cuz all it's best weapons are always in the arm. use the other arm to keep the good one alive. still a rough choice. i personally hate the cent because of that

LRMs are fine though

[Aedensin]

They increased the spread to counter artemis QQ and I think they reduced the damage slightly (not 100% sure)
When artemis was added, missiles went back to the old flight path of dropping straight down onto the cockpit often resulting in instant death and nerd rage, the spread increase makes this less likely.

They do feel a bit pitiful now though, I run an LRM 20 cat with a med laser and I used to rain death before the missile arc was changed.. now I kinda pick at an atlas' paint with artemis installed lol oh well, slow moving targets still catch hell.

Edited by Aedensin, 08 November 2012 - 10:33 PM.

[Dagnome]

The issue prior to the hot patch was not the damage of LRM's it was the illusion of damage given by the spread of the LRm's and the drop angle. Mechs wre dying so quick due to the Cockpit/Center torso always being hit. In my opinion LRM's are pretty useless again (And I play brawlers, I rarely LRM). I can respect PGi's position and wanting people to engage in close combat more than ranged but artillery is there for a reason and if someone gets caught with their pants down or walks into the open then they deserve to get death rained down upon them.

[Kdogg788]

No offense but I think LRMs are right on now and you're at a guy who used streaks mainly prior to these patches. Now LRMs have a well balanced role on the field. The damage you describe sounds about where it should be in respect to game balance. Seriously, running my A1 prior to the nerf, I was laughing my *** off at all the 1000 damage games, but I knew it wasn't right. LRMs are currently well balanced.

-k

[Jacmac]

They are working great as far as I can see. Hard to imagine that everyone got used to massive missile barrages destroying multiple mechs before they even have a chance to engage, but that seems to be the case. People are taking lots of damage from LRMs and SRMs, they just aren't racking up so many kills. I'm positive they are racking up lots of assists, which is what a missile boat ought to be getting credit for.

[Mr Butterworth]

I don't run lrms so I don't know how much less they do now but having been on the receiving ends of lots of lrm fire I definitely got much better at avoiding missiles. It's possible that they seem to be way less effective not only because they do do less damage but because people have also gotten better at dodging them.

[Kdogg788]

Kdogg788, on 08 November 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

No offense but I think LRMs are right on now and you're looking at a guy who used streaks mainly prior to these patches. Now LRMs have a well balanced role on the field. The damage you describe sounds about where it should be in respect to game balance. Seriously, running my A1 prior to the nerf, I was laughing my *** off at all the 1000 damage games, but I knew it wasn't right. LRMs are currently well balanced.

-k

[justin xiang]

Kdogg788, on 08 November 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

No offense but I think LRMs are right on now and you're at a guy who used streaks mainly prior to these patches. Now LRMs have a well balanced role on the field. The damage you describe sounds about where it should be in respect to game balance. Seriously, running my A1 prior to the nerf, I was laughing my *** off at all the 1000 damage games, but I knew it wasn't right. LRMs are currently well balanced.

-k

Word. I really like how the LRMs hit the target right now... but I think it would be nice if they exited at a higher arc from your launcher. LRMs killing everyone is pretty dang lame if you ask me. Learn to aim.

[Weiland]

LRMs were perfectly fine before the Artemis patch. The combination of Artemis plus the borked flight path ensured wildly powerful LRMs. Now the flight path is actually worse than it was, commonly straight-lining for targets - no indirect fire left in them. Worse, they lowered the damage on top of the flight path nerf and increased the spread.

It's like PGI's patch is the fat man that keeps scurrying back and forth between the ends of a giant see-saw, trying to balance the thing but never managing to do more then end up on one extreme of the spectrum.

Additionally, LRMs are plagued by the one thing that really makes boats a min-max high-cost build - insane ammo pricing. Even before the patches of late, missile boats (boats meaning that the mech was oriented almost exclusively around firing LRMs) paid for their high damage capability with an insane price tag that other non-LRM mechs didn't have.

All of this combined with the fact that a lot of people didn't seem to understand how to handle incoming LRMs (QQ first, learn to play never) meant that LRM boats were scoring lots of kills and wiping the floor with the simpler lot of players.

It's a delicate balance.

Returning LRMs to previous values would be fine, I believe. Before November 6, I was wary of missiles, but they wouldn't rip me apart if I made only a single tactical error. After Nov. 6th, stepping a toe out of line caused the stealth missiles of doom to rip you apart and hand you a silent loss. Today, missiles barely chip the paint off of my Cicada - and, for that matter, it's the same issue with streaks, but I digress.

Suggestion: Return to pre.6th values for LRMs, include Artemis with current spread values. The prices were bad enough for the damage output then, and with Artemis doubling ammo costs now, Pre-6th LRM values definitely balance out. Today, there's no point in using them, especially when an entire team of LRM users can stream LRMs at my Atlas for twenty seconds before they take me down (add a barrage of lasers and cannons for good measure) - it happened today, and that I laughed at.

Once ECM and Probes hit the ground, there will be another wave of balancing required, but I estimate this to be the best resort at the moment.

Edited by Weiland, 08 November 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[Aedensin]

Mr Butterworth, on 08 November 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

I don't run lrms so I don't know how much less they do now but having been on the receiving ends of lots of lrm fire I definitely got much better at avoiding missiles. It's possible that they seem to be way less effective not only because they do do less damage but because people have also gotten better at dodging them.

Its easier to dodge them now since the arc was changed. Pre patch arc wasn't as steep and the missiles were able to hit the back side of a jenner at top speed. Post patch arc results in the missiles dropping straight down meaning a simple side step will often do the trick. The only time LRMs are a real threat now is if you're caught unaware or afk.

[Weiland]

Aedensin, on 08 November 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

Its easier to dodge them now since the arc was changed. Pre patch arc wasn't as steep and the missiles were able to hit the back side of a jenner at top speed. Post patch arc results in the missiles dropping straight down meaning a simple side step will often do the trick. The only time LRMs are a real threat now is if you're caught unaware or afk.

The way I see it, if I can ignore all of the Streaks and LRMs in my Cicada while I'm harassing the entire enemy brawler front, they're not much of a threat. Pre-6th, they weren't murderous, but they would still give me a pounding if I didn't address the threat.

[p00k]

Aedensin, on 08 November 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

They increased the spread to counter artemis QQ and I think they reduced the damage slightly (not 100% sure)
When artemis was added, missiles went back to the old flight path of dropping straight down onto the cockpit often resulting in instant death and nerd rage, the spread increase makes this less likely.

they did. 2>1.7 per missile. a nice move really; during the closed beta they tweaked LRM damage by 0.1/missile at a time, then all of a sudden jumped from like 1.6 or 1.7 to 2.

missiles didn't go back to the old flight path with artemis. if you had LOS and the crosshair on the enemy mech, the LRMs still used the gentle flight path. but there was a bug where if you were indirect firing them (or even if you had direct LOS, if you pointed your reticule at the ground after getting your lock) the missiles shoot almost straight up then come back down almost vertically. was a bug; the intended flight path was still in game (in select circumstances)

[Tennex]

it just needs screen shake back. I'm actually having fun now.

people can get out onto the battlefield and skirmish. instead of cowering behind rocks.

[Leetskeet]

I would have liked them to be at 1.85 or something, but I really don't care.

I never want to play LRM Warrior Online again. It was frustrating, it was boring, and it was running people off. Never again.

[Dagnome]

Tennex, on 08 November 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

it just needs screen shake back. I'm actually having fun now.

people can get out onto the battlefield and skirmish. instead of cowering behind rocks.

It is back, ive experienced it anyway.

Edited by Dagnome, 08 November 2012 - 11:00 PM.

[The Wine Gnat]

LRMS are perfect right now. I haven't died instantly due to their fire in many games now. In fact, I'm happy to see OTHER TYPES OF MECHS besides LRM boat out on the field.

Good job PGI! It was a much needed nerf and I (plus many many others) are greatful for it.

[Weiland]

The Wine Gnat, on 08 November 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

LRMS are perfect right now. I haven't died instantly due to their fire in many games now. In fact, I'm happy to see OTHER TYPES OF MECHS besides LRM boat out on the field.

Good job PGI! It was a much needed nerf and I (plus many many others) are greatful for it.

I haven't died at all to sustained LRM fire, save for a single time when I stuck my Atlas in the middle of a field to soak rain from multiple boats, just to see how long it would take.

It took 20 seconds.

Not perfect.



Now, I am happy to see a revitalization regarding skirmish and brawl roles, but I frown at the concept that we had to turn LRMs into overpriced paint chippers to do it.

Edited by Weiland, 08 November 2012 - 11:05 PM.

[Hudenagyon]

I don't really feel the LRM nerf. They're still raining in every game I play, and it's a big threat to slower mechs. But I have noticed that it takes a lot more LRMs to take down a mech. Despite this, the LRM boats are still a real threat on the battlefield.