33 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

OpCentar, on 10 November 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

That would be right, and it should be very expensive and you should matched 1 Clan mech to at least 1.5 or even 2 IS mechs.

However it would never work as everyone would rage "it's P2W Clan chassis with 20+ million cost for a single variant" and overpowered tech which we can't even mount on IS mechs.

And Omnis, think K2s are deadly? try a Clan assault Omni with as many high alpha guns as it can boat.

Gausszilla?
Or rather 5 (Clan Ultra) AC20s?

[TheSneak]

Maybe I'm missing something in all this... but basically two things can happen:

1) Everyone can use clan tech or IS, just get the cbills to buy the mechs or by MC whatever. And the matchmaker balances weight class and tech.

2) It's clans vs IS. In which case the balance is achieved via drop limits - usually (for up to 8v8) its 320 tonnes clan vs 360 IS. This can only work in competitive play (ie. CW in this game) because obviously the current deathmatch style play doesnt have drop limits...

I think (2) is more likely in this game. I really get the feeling thats where the devs want the game to head. Or... maybe I'm just projecting there! Yeah maybe...

MWLL has clan vs IS and it works fine - dem clanners aint so tuff wiv der fancy weapons.

Having said that though... I might fight clans in this game. I cannot WAIT to get in my Summoner (best mech ever: http://www.sarna.net...oner_%28Thor%29)


*edit: Wait the 'pace' of the game? It's not going to change *that* much. Clan mechs will kill faster, but there will be more for them to have to kill. Clan vs clan would be faster pace though.

One thing is for sure in my mind - clan tech will fark with everything if it is introduced without proper team play like CW implemented...

Edited by TheSneak, 20 November 2012 - 03:53 AM.

[Belorion]

The tech does not have levels per se. If it did we would already be at 2 and clan tech would be three. Clan tach is supposed to be more powerful, end of story, no nerfs or buffs needed or warrented.

[MustrumRidcully]

Belorion, on 20 November 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

The tech does not have levels per se. If it did we would already be at 2 and clan tech would be three. Clan tach is supposed to be more powerful, end of story, no nerfs or buffs needed or warrented.

Why does the story end there? FOr what reasons do you believe there is no point in discussing how clan tech will affect the game balance and the pace of the game? What if it proves disruptive to the game? Must it stay disruptive? Are the devs not allowed to fix such issues, or avoid them from coming to pass in the first place?

[Sayyid]

Pretty bad poll.

I think the game would be better if they had just stuck with the original video concept of 3015. No advanced tech, no clans, no double heatsinks. Just simple weapons with simple rules.

[Mister Blastman]

OP: This is a biased poll. Please add some neutral choices such as a plain "Great" rather than injecting an opinion into it. The current choices are inadequate and do not cover all the bases.

[MustrumRidcully]

Mister Blastman, on 20 November 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

OP: This is a biased poll. Please add some neutral choices such as a plain "Great" rather than injecting an opinion into it. The current choices are inadequate and do not cover all the bases.

I can't retroactively change the poll . Or rather, I could, but than the only sensible thing to do would be to write Atlai at every poll option,. If you know how to formulate it better, feel free to post your own poll or send me the replies you'd like to see, and I set a new one up.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 20 November 2012 - 06:07 AM.

[Yankee77]

Mister Blastman, on 20 November 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

OP: This is a biased poll. Please add some neutral choices such as a plain "Great" rather than injecting an opinion into it. The current choices are inadequate and do not cover all the bases.

It's a pretty bad poll in general, to be honest. There are far too many choices with far too subtle a difference. The choices themselves are vague. AND the second question conflicts with several answers from the first question.

In short, it's practically impossible to get ANY useful data out of the results of this poll.

If the OP is serious about collecting anything useful on this topic, he'll need to start a new poll that is far more focused and can actually obtain significant results (for example: "Are you satisfied with the current pace of the game?", while defining what "pace" means). And then, if he wants more granularity on the popular answer, he can post new polls that expands this most popular answer.

[OpCentar]

MustrumRidcully, on 20 November 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

Gausszilla?
Or rather 5 (Clan Ultra) AC20s?

No doubt we shall see both some time in the future.

I have recently (re)discovered the Kraken. With 10xUAC/2s that would be the ideal ballistic boat platform

Edited by OpCentar, 20 November 2012 - 06:14 AM.

[Aym]

I think most "gamers" are for Option 2, more balanced diversity leads to more choices and more fun. Frankly any other option is either P2W or terribly punishing to new players and frankly less interesting as it provides a strict linear progression in power. Good post OP.

[RFMarine]

one balancing option brought up before would make clan equipment unrepairable. It looks logical. You capture a clan weapon but dont have the tech or parts to repair it but since the clans built it with the same mounts and ports, it still fits on IS mechs

Its not a perfect solution but it may be considered

[Tuhalu]

This really really depends on how they implement Community Warfare. The devs have stated they will not be working on implementing the clans until after that goes in. There are questions that will need answering before I could feel that anyones opinion was sufficiently informed to constitute more than a gut reaction.

• Who gets to join the Clans?
  
• If anyone can align with the Clans and get shiny overpowered Clan mechs (omni or otherwise!), what incentives will there be for new players to align themself with an Inner Sphere faction?
  
• How will Clan forces be matched against other Clan forces and against Inner Sphere forces?
  
• Will Community Warfare create an environment in which players can find matches at whatever technology level (IS T1, IS T2 or clan) they prefer?

Clan tech will almost certainly accelerate gameplay in matches where it is involved. Increased ranges, combined with higher heat dissipation and lighter/more powerful weapons makes for a pretty massive increase in kill power, while improved XL engines and ferro-fibrous/endo-steel technologies make for relatively small increases in actual survivability. On the other hand, the Clans won't get any super pilots advantage (as in the tabletop game) because it's real people piloting those mechs.

I suspect that a tonnage ratio of 5:8 would probably balance out the enhanced speed and firepower of Clan mechs against Inner Sphere mechs that are fully customised with the full range of tier 2 equipment. That ratio is close to the unofficial consensus value for tournament play (balanced on tonnage rather than BV here in Australia) in the tabletop game. Excuse me if I don't provide an exact source on that though! MWO may not balance similarly, but I'm expecting it will.

The trick (as always!) will be to decide whether to make the Clans have the same number of mechs with lighter tonnages or make the Clans have less mechs at the same tonnages. Either method has it's issues.

The same number of mechs, but with lighter tonnages plays to the Clans advantages. The Speed and Firepower of Clan Assault mechs are only a bit above that on InnerSphere Assault mechs. The Speed and Firepower of their Lights and Mediums is far above that of InnerSphere Lights and Mediums! In general, it would be like fighting 8 super Jenners in every game. They would tend to easily outmanouever any Inner Sphere force.

A lower number of mechs, but in similar weight classes means that each individual clanner is more valuable to their team. Killing just one knocks out more of their firepower, but each Clanner could reasonably expect to beat any single Inner Sphere mech hands down. It would be like fighting 5 super GaussCats in every game. The Inner Sphere would gain a slight strategic advantage, but would have to work together well to avoid being absolutely destroyed one-on-one.

[Keifomofutu]

Tuhalu, on 20 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

This really really depends on how they implement Community Warfare. The devs have stated they will not be working on implementing the clans until after that goes in. There are questions that will need answering before I could feel that anyones opinion was sufficiently informed to constitute more than a gut reaction.

• Who gets to join the Clans?
  
• If anyone can align with the Clans and get shiny overpowered Clan mechs (omni or otherwise!), what incentives will there be for new players to align themself with an Inner Sphere faction?
  
• How will Clan forces be matched against other Clan forces and against Inner Sphere forces?
  
• Will Community Warfare create an environment in which players can find matches at whatever technology level (IS T1, IS T2 or clan) they prefer?

Clan tech will almost certainly accelerate gameplay in matches where it is involved. Increased ranges, combined with higher heat dissipation and lighter/more powerful weapons makes for a pretty massive increase in kill power, while improved XL engines and ferro-fibrous/endo-steel technologies make for relatively small increases in actual survivability. On the other hand, the Clans won't get any super pilots advantage (as in the tabletop game) because it's real people piloting those mechs.


I suspect that a tonnage ratio of 5:8 would probably balance out the enhanced speed and firepower of Clan mechs against Inner Sphere mechs that are fully customised with the full range of tier 2 equipment. That ratio is close to the unofficial consensus value for tournament play (balanced on tonnage rather than BV here in Australia) in the tabletop game. Excuse me if I don't provide an exact source on that though! MWO may not balance similarly, but I'm expecting it will.

The trick (as always!) will be to decide whether to make the Clans have the same number of mechs with lighter tonnages or make the Clans have less mechs at the same tonnages. Either method has it's issues.

The same number of mechs, but with lighter tonnages plays to the Clans advantages. The Speed and Firepower of Clan Assault mechs are only a bit above that on InnerSphere Assault mechs. The Speed and Firepower of their Lights and Mediums is far above that of InnerSphere Lights and Mediums! In general, it would be like fighting 8 super Jenners in every game. They would tend to easily outmanouever any Inner Sphere force.

A lower number of mechs, but in similar weight classes means that each individual clanner is more valuable to their team. Killing just one knocks out more of their firepower, but each Clanner could reasonably expect to beat any single Inner Sphere mech hands down. It would be like fighting 5 super GaussCats in every game. The Inner Sphere would gain a slight strategic advantage, but would have to work together well to avoid being absolutely destroyed one-on-one.

I feel less mechs at the same weight is the better option. Specifically because that gives the IS the tactical advantage. And the thought of fighting 8 super jenners or 120km/h super swaybacks isn't my favorite idea either.

[MustrumRidcully]

A lot of talk about Clans these days. I wonder if the public opinion on this topic has changed in the past, or more people have something to ask. (If your opinion has changed, you can delete your vote and re-vote. Neat feature of the boards.)