31 replies to this topic

[WardenWolf]

Gwaihir, on 13 November 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

Couple of notes for you. Ambient temperatures are a map attribute that you can read from one of the map definition xml files. Frozen forest colony has the exact same ambient temperature as normal forest colony and river city, which is to say, zero.

Frozen city has a value of -.5
Caustic has a value of .3, and .8 in the caldera. I don't know exactly how these values change dissipation rates or base heat capacity, though.

Also, just so you know, both of the heat talents are 100% non functional. Double Heatsinks are currently 2.0 for the 10 in-engine sinks and 1.4 for additional ones. I've tested this and the heat talents by just using fraps to record footage of firing two ERPPCs and then counting to the exact frame how long the heat takes to dissipate, with just the base 10 engine sinks from a 250, and then with additional heatsinks added on.

I did testing on both forest colonies and river city, and the ingame heat meter is 100% accurate to the frame for single heatsinks functioning at .1 hdps, engine DHS at .2 hdps, and external DHS at .14 hdps. Capacity is the same. Base heat capacity is 32, + 1 per SHS, 2.0 per engine DHS, and + 1.4 per external DHS. That capacity talent is just as non-functional as cool run is.

Wow, that is fascinating! I had done some minimal testing to check the 2.0 / 1.4 DHS issue, and come to that some conclusion, but it never occurred to me to check out the pilot skills. Have you submitted that as a bug?

[Gwaihir]

Yea, I have, they know about it. Other pilot skills such as speed tweak obviously work at least. The heat ones were just never really measured conclusively, but just getting framecounts from a 30 FPS recording is worlds more accurate than trying to manually stopwatch it.

e:


Note that first test is on frozen forest colony- Ambient temperature there is exactly the same as normal forest colony or river city.

Edited by Gwaihir, 13 November 2012 - 09:25 AM.

[WardenWolf]

The million dollar question is going to be: do they now realize that full 2.0 DHS are not breaking the game (I'm not seeing worse boating of energy weapons - is anyone else?) and just make all of them that effective... or are they going to say that the in-engine ones are 'bugged' and should only be the same 1.4x effectiveness? I really hope they don't do the later, as I've just moved a couple of designs back to doubles based on the testing I had done over the weekend.

[Gwaihir]

The needed balance solution for me is a sliding scale of dissipation. Lights need to be pinned to 1.4 or 1.5 for all sinks, moving up to 2.0s for assaults. For assaults the crit slot sacrifice is much, much more meaningful than the weight gain. The weight savings on lights are far more dramatic, it's a much higher percentage of their total mass, so they need to be scaled back in effectiveness there. Lights with full 2.0 DHS and no tackling would be/are far too overpowered in the hands of good pilots.

I personally put on my tinfoil hat and assume that they set it up like this on purpose for the current patch to continue testing their different values.

[Dirus Nigh]

Great work Bubba

Garth Erlam, on 09 November 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

This is really cool, thanks for doing it.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 13 November 2012 - 10:30 AM.

[Dewil]

I did a test on Forest Snow and River City and they came out as identical in heat dissipation.

How I tested it. I used 2 Large lasers and 14DHS and held the fire button down. Fired once (heat to 21), cooldown (heat to 4). second shot (heat to 24), cooldown (heat to 6) before firing again.

The numbers were identical on both maps. Standing still and not in water.

[PhigNewtenz]

To avoid confusion, in the fourth paragraph:

Bubba Wilkins, on 09 November 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

(temp-30*.05)

Should be:

Bubba Wilkins, on 09 November 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

(temp-30)*.05

I have no idea if this analysis is correct, but to make the post self-consistent this should be changed.






Also, please excuse my dear Aunt Sally.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Gwaihir, on 13 November 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

Couple of notes for you. Ambient temperatures are a map attribute that you can read from one of the map definition xml files. Frozen forest colony has the exact same ambient temperature as normal forest colony and river city, which is to say, zero.

Frozen city has a value of -.5
Caustic has a value of .3, and .8 in the caldera. I don't know exactly how these values change dissipation rates or base heat capacity, though.

Also, just so you know, both of the heat talents are 100% non functional. Double Heatsinks are currently 2.0 for the 10 in-engine sinks and 1.4 for additional ones. I've tested this and the heat talents by just using fraps to record footage of firing two ERPPCs and then counting to the exact frame how long the heat takes to dissipate, with just the base 10 engine sinks from a 250, and then with additional heatsinks added on.

I did testing on both forest colonies and river city, and the ingame heat meter is 100% accurate to the frame for single heatsinks functioning at .1 hdps, engine DHS at .2 hdps, and external DHS at .14 hdps. Capacity is the same. Base heat capacity is 32, + 1 per SHS, 2.0 per engine DHS, and + 1.4 per external DHS. That capacity talent is just as non-functional as cool run is.

/shrug.

Perhaps. The formulas worked out across the board in my results which were done for multiple instances. To each there own.

[arm0r]

Hi guys
Thanks for very useful topic.
I made an attempt to create a heat simulator. http://mwomercs.com/...r-heatlab-beta/
It works fine on River City and Forest Colony maps. But, as you may guess, slightly fails on Caustic and Frozen.
I thought maybe you can help me to complete it by answering on my question in first post.

P.S. Lord Creston thanks for the table with HS qty. on maps. I'll try to implement it.

[Tesunie]

Onyx Rain, on 09 November 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

I feel like I run to hot on the snow maps...I'd like to see them cut your heat even more on those maps. Seems less then it used to be even...I don't know, I just think it should be more. I don't get the sense that It is really all that cold out there.

Also make weather more obvious and dynamic please....the weather fx in game so far are bit weak IMO.

If they aren't then why do people keep asking when we are going to get them and Devs have to keep pointing out they are already there?...That suggests they are a little to subtle

So it isn't just me and my brother that seem to notice that heat created in the ice maps seem to be more than normal? And yes, I notice it disapates faster, but I seem to over heat easier on the ice maps. My test is with AC 2s. On any map, I can shoot all day with no heat problems. On Caustic, I tend to overheat after shooting them for a LONG time. Ice? Same as with Caustic, I can overheat the guns and have to run and wait a short time before they cool.

My brother though, with two large lasers on a Raven, has been known to only overheat on the ice map. As in, overheat enough to actually explode his mech with. He doesn't even get that hot on Caustic. I'm just wondering, why does the ice map make things heat up faster? Yes, I do cool faster too... but I shouldn't heat up faster, should I?

[Snib]

Gwaihir, on 13 November 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

Couple of notes for you. Ambient temperatures are a map attribute that you can read from one of the map definition xml files. Frozen forest colony has the exact same ambient temperature as normal forest colony and river city, which is to say, zero.

Actually Forest Colony Snow is set to -0.1 in the XML.

[Snib]

Thontor, on 11 December 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

you realize the post you quoted is from four weeks ago... It was true at the time.

oops, my bad, call me forum noob.