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Another Gripe About Scouts


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#121 Winston McCrutchley

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:33 PM

View PostPanzerMagier, on 10 November 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

3. The introduction of ferro armour and endo steel improved medium to light mechs ONLY, they are hardly worth anything on a heavy - assault mech


Couldn't disagree more with that point. I love endo on my various atlai/catapults/hunchbacks/cicada. I usually don't get ferro unless my weight is already taken up and the slots are open, and then its just to finish armoring up. But when I'm packing heavy weapons and a large engine, I don't usually need much space for heatsinks, so endo frees up the space to make my engine bigger/upgrade my lasers.

They are having issues with moving lights not taking damage, yes, and this will pass. Patience, patches will come. In the mean time, do what I do - sink your teeth into something with more meat, and try and leave the minnows to the other minnows. :)

(Yes, I realize you must defend yourself against them sometimes, yes, I realize there are issues with this, no, I don't particularly mind. There is a lot that can go wrong when coding, things like this are complex. Time is the best remedy.)

#122 Slab Squathrust

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:17 AM

View Postrythex, on 10 November 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

Trust me, I'm not the only one with these problems, PGI says they'll have a fix in a few months. <shrug>
I don't need anymore kills, I'm at 1-3 kills/match 4/5 assists typically during a good game, I'm just wanting a level playing field for all players


The lady doth protest too much, methinks

Here are my thoughts as somone who pilots a jenner.

1. Once knockdowns return, you will see fewer of the rambo scout mechs. This needs to happen. However, remember this is a two way street. If anyone smaller than an atlas (and even they can be knocked down) gets out of position, and gets pancaked and destroyed they better no come back complaining.

2. Collisions still do damage. Whoever said they don't is either lying or just plain ignorant. It seems that at the beginning of the match someone always taps me doing damage to my legs. This is further compounded by the damage I take from 5 foot drops and moving over terrain. By the end of every match it seems both my legs are without armor and a mere laser strike from death. I have used this against other scout mechs and cicadas. A few laser hits to already damaged legs and they are easy kills.

3. I never fight any larger mech one on one, unless it is a lrm boat. Sometimes I will work with a larger mech and attack the back of their target while they are engaged. I primarily spend my time hunting other light mechs because with our relative speeds they don't seem to hard to hit, or harassing the aforementioned lrm boats to keep them off my teammates.

4. Streak SRMs still seem to do plenty of damage to me. I am not complaining. They were certainly overpowered when they only and always hit the same location, and there does need to be a counter to a harassing mech. However, these still do good work against scouts. I tend to avoid other mechs with streaks like the plague, unless I have help.

5. Gauss rifles and lrms are not to be used on scouts. Save the ammo for a larger mech, unless the scout mech is without cover. Often I find my team down by 1 player 25 seconds into a match because some light foolishly ran into the open and was barraged by lrm fire. I rarely take lrm fire because I move to cover the minute I see the warning. Further, would you use a large caliber bolt action rifle to clear a building? No, a SMG or short barreled shotgun would be a better choice. The same applies to the gauss rifle. Using fast cycle weapons like small and medium lasers work best in tight areas where a scout mech can be a real threat. You may get a hit on me as a pass through your field of view, however, this is at the expense of missed shots, my lasers hitting you, and a barrage of lrms from my teammates. An even better option would be to work with a teammate. This isn't a run and gun type of game where one player can rack up 50 kills just by being a faster shot. A lone mech is a juicy target for the other team. It's not too hard to stick with a buddy and coordinate fire.

6. Finally if a scout gets to you and you are alone, keep moving. Those that stop i simply get behind them and core them through the back. If they move slow I usually alternate between forward and reverse to keep behind them. IF you do stop put your back against a wall or building so the scout has to remain in your field of fire.

Anyways, I hope these tips help other players, both those who pilot scouts and those who are troubled by them. It is just my two cents. But they have worked well for me since I started running scout mechs back in closed beta. Mind you this was with knockdowns and before the introduction of DHS, FF, or endosteel.

#123 shabowie

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:24 AM

View Postrythex, on 10 November 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Trust me, even with a 42ms ping it's still hard as hell to hit lights as they just warp around.


It isn't that hard. I pilot lights, mediums and assaults, all have strengths and weaknesses. A good group of team players should be able to chase off or kill lights just as easily as they can focus fire heavier mechs.

View PostWinston McCrutchley, on 10 November 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

Couldn't disagree more with that point. I love endo on my various atlai/catapults/hunchbacks/cicada.


Agreed. IMO, the heavier the mech the more it benefits from endo steel. Only certain builds requiring a bunch of crit spaces won't want to use.

Edited by shabowie, 11 November 2012 - 12:46 AM.


#124 Khan Warlock Kell

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 02:52 AM

View PostAsgeir, on 10 November 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

I dunno about you, but when I am running around in my Wang, my AC20 has a pretty good chance of winging some poor fast light. And that takes into account the bad net code, the speed, AND the fire delay of my weapon. I for one really don't see the problem, but I also have good ping overall.

Lights are more aggressive than they ought to be, yes, but I would hardly put them in the same page as an Atlas. For every Jenner or Commando I see getting 5 kills in a match, I see 4 who get stomped badly with no kills at all.


This is less of an issue if your in NA, For some strange reason people actually on the North American land mass seem to be less effected by bad ping than those outside of it. irrespective of ping. One of My buddies in Florida has a ping very similar to mine. and yet even tho our pings are similar mechs seem to have less lag shield for him. we Tested this in game a few times same mechs same load outs and both shot at one of our team mates. We both shot at diffrent legs He consistanly registered damage. while my paper doll would and the enemy mech would register me hitting but no damage would be done.

I don't understand why it works this way, maybe its not just your personal ping that affects this, but maybe the difference in pings across the whole server affects it.

#125 Kauhava

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:19 AM

View PostDrxAbstract, on 10 November 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

Oh you shouldnt, should you? Why is that, exactly? You were willing to do it in MW3 (And MW2 for some of us), but it's absolutely absurd now? Has the land of Broadband interwebs lead you to a trough of spoiled entitlement? If you you're going to stomp your foot and throw that 'I shouldnt have to" attitude around i'd rather you stepped out and let one of these other fine chaps who's willing to go the distance have your seat.


We shouldn't have to because this is *****ng 2012 and we don't deal with this bullsh*t on other more stable games? The current netcode is a joke, period. Just play any decent FPS of the past 4 years and tell me you have to lag shoot on local servers.

#126 Alex Wolfe

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:38 AM

Match starts, press W
Upon reacing any mech press A or D and hold it
Shoot lasers until it dies
Lather, rinse, repeat

You are now "scouting" in MWO.

Oh collisions, how I miss thee ;) .

#127 mekabuser

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:53 AM

LAg shield is a joke. I barely get scratched in anything over 100kph.. trial cicada sucks, but sure illustrates the point. Yeah and seriously, lag shooting, sry I DIDNT play mw3, I played mw4, a title damn near 15 years old and you didnt have to lagshoot in that game.. Nor did i have to lag shoot in mwll.
and it IS the devs fault...
Its a cruel joke everytime I hear the devs talking about how they wanted to "change" mwo.. in my mind. "we dont want the same ole circle of death" just how silly does that "founding" statement sound now.

Lagshooting, the ultimate immersion killer.

#128 Boris The Spider

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:16 AM

PGI Should only reintroduce collisions when, and only when they have the physics working spot on. Bring back the abilty of an atlas to knock down my raven, when my raven has the ability to hit an atlas at 130KMph in the back of the back of the head and send him face first into the ground, with a chance of me retaining my footing. Collision should be a two way street an not an I win mode for fast heavys soloing about without support.

If you are having problems with lights, just add a scout of your own or SSRM medium to your group to guard your heavier mechs.

#129 Kousagi

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:19 AM

View PostKauhava, on 11 November 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:


We shouldn't have to because this is *****ng 2012 and we don't deal with this bullsh*t on other more stable games? The current netcode is a joke, period. Just play any decent FPS of the past 4 years and tell me you have to lag shoot on local servers.


More stable games? You do know that FPS's suffer from lag too, just in different ways. Honestly I would say BF3/COD style shooters have worse netcode then MWO right now. Yes, you will raise the pitch forks at that statement but listen.

Every method of Client to server to client interaction is going to have its flaws, down sides, and suffer from lag in different ways. Were MWO is mostly server side, so everything on their end stays synced up and its a delay showing on your screen based on lag. Were say a game like COD is mostly client side so that delay is still show on your screen but it different cause you can kill a player that on your screen is in front of you, but on his screen he made it behind cover safely. 'Cause in most FPS's your hit box lags behind where you are on your screen. This can also be used to your advantage, for like coming around corners and killing a person before they see you round the corner on their screen. Since its all client side, just as they see you pop in to view they die before they can fire. Which on their screen almost looks like a 1 shot, since half the time it will not even show you firing, or only getting off one shot with a full auto weapon depending on lag.

So, its just a different type of lag, just because you might not notice it in them unwarrantably popular games does not mean its not there messing everything up. They are just good at hiding it from unperceptive people.

Edited by Kousagi, 11 November 2012 - 06:21 AM.


#130 Tuoweit

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 08:49 AM

View PostPanzerMagier, on 10 November 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

You obviously do not understand...
I hoped of getting away with this the short way but now I have to explain it to you, sigh.

Never does your computer send one fricken packet at a time to the server.And never are the packets that you sent synchronized. In the time frame of of you shooting an enemy mech, the shot connects and you get a confirmation back from server, you have sent loads of packets. on a ping of less than 100, this is negligible however, go to a ping of 100-200-400, and you'll really feel it. In the time frame of that 0.2 seconds, only 1 or a few packets have returned, some of them can still be a full 0.1 second away...


Thanks for the patronizing, I'm sure that's helpful. Use your language more precisely if what you meant was not in fact "to incorporate sending information packets BACK to you" but something else.

What that is, I'm not really clear on yet - are you suggesting the protocol is inefficient such that it takes multiple round trips to resolve a single firing action? Packets should only delay each other (by times on the scale of your ping, cpu normally being negligible) in the case of protocol dependencies or if you're hitting the limit of your bandwidth.

#131 Rotaugen

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:13 AM

I play mostly Atlas and Jenner, so I see the opposite sides of the equation. As an Atlas, if confronted with a Jenner, I get my back to something and time an alpha. As a Jenner, when I confront an Atlas, most of them attempt to spin with me, which is a fatal error. I have won and lost on both sides, so a lot of it comes down to pilot skill. Btw, as a Jenner, I USUALLY just harass, not attempt a permanent circle fight. I hit, run away, then weave through cover to come back from a different direction. If I see myself doing a head on run at a mech facing me, I prefer to veer off right away and pick another direction .





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