791 replies to this topic

[r4plez]

LRM are overnerfed now, i wonder when PGI will notice that.

[The Herrick]

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Why?

If you're going to make such a definitive statement, give us a reason why... and don't say "LRMs are ezmoade!"

But they are.

All other weapons require you to at least aim. LRMS don't even need a proper LoS, aim up the red circle with the red box and left click for free kills. It is quite possible to rain down damage without ever exposing yourself to return fire.

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

unless some scrub tries to run through a large open area.

Oh god, the irony.

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

Excuse me for giving money to the company that makes a game you play for free.

So did he.

Edited by The Herrick, 10 November 2012 - 10:09 AM.

[Dren Nas]

Shalune, on 10 November 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

A target in the open will take far more damage from other weapons, yes. For suppression I meant targets in cover. In the open though you still have the advantage of being able to shoot at a target without worrying about return fire.

Even so, I had a game yesterday where we had to charge a hill of LRMs (rest of the team was occupied elsewhere) over open ground on caustic. The damage we took on the way in wasn't negligible by a long shot.

I have no problem with dealing 0 damage to a target in cover. The problem is, you can't deal effective damage to someone who IS NOT in cover right now.

[Tekerton]

Noth, on 10 November 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

No they haven't, you just can't solo the big mechs as easily now. They still pack a hurt and when used smartly (in combo with other weapons and team mates) they are very effective. As a support weapon, it isn't always all about what you do, but how what you do effects your team mates. I still see LRMs grabbing kills and putting up good damage numbers.

I "Liked" this as well. I Quoted it so others would have an even greater chance of seeing it. Now, I've led you to the water...it's up to you now...

[Bagheera]

RG Notch, on 10 November 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

So if it's not OP you don't use it. Check.

Pretty much this. Sorry you (OP) can no longer hide behind a hill and drop an atlas in a couple of salvos because the missles find them, and make a RIGHT ANGLE TURN and drop directly on his head.

Similarly, I'm sorry you (OP) can no longer destroy a medium in one salvo for the same reason. Yeah, what a pancacking fun game. Stand behind the hill and faceroll your keyboard when there is a lock. Everyone else who wants to use anything else can just try to get cover and die when 90deg turning missles headshot them. I cannot believe there is a single person who wants that back. Oh wait, yes I can. I wish I couldn't believe it, but I can.



Sorry guy, but if you though LRMS were balanced before the hotfix, I don't even know what to tell you.

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

I have no problem with dealing 0 damage to a target in cover. The problem is, you can't deal effective damage to someone who IS NOT in cover right now.

As others have stated in this thread. That is incorrect.

Heck, one of the first matches I was in after the hotfix I watched a couple of Trial -K's wail on a Cicada who wandered into the lake (Colony map) and he was dead in short order. Clearly he failed to go to ground. Exactly how LRMs should function. You stay in the open, they take you down. Don't stay in the open.

LRMs are fine, [Redacted]

Edited by Niko Snow, 11 November 2012 - 11:22 AM.
Code of Conduct

[Dr Killinger]

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Actually, yes, why not let a catapult that fires every one of his 700+ to 1000+ LRMs on an atlas destroy it. Why is it such a bad concept to punish the stupid for not playing smart? Why say "oh it's an atlas! you shouldn't be able to solo one!" when PGI's philosophy is that every mech can kill the other? Right now LRM mechs can NOT kill anyone solo unless it's basically a killsteal.

They never once said that any mech should be able to kill any mech, but rather that every mech can fill a specific role, and that role is meaningful to the team. LRM boats can still rack up impressive damage values, but seldom rack up kills. It was like this before the Artemis patch, and it is like it after the hotfix. They're suppressive they make people think twice about coming out of cover, and provide extra damage when they do.

I just had a game in my dragon, and I ran straight up to a missile boat, and I was largely orange with no armour on my weak arm (because I point that to dangerous things so I still have an Autocannon when I get there), and when I got close, his lasers combined with those of his scout friend took me out. Sounds very reasonable to me. Now, I don't know if he was a good or bad player in general, but the damage figures for a person running through 400m up to an enemy seems right to me- he was near the top of the table, with one kill. If any other mech in the game could kill something going ~81kph before it can cover 400m to get close, the forums would light up in rage... oh wait, that's what happened on Tuesday night.

[Dren Nas]

bogmali, on 10 November 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

Yesterday I was in a match (twice) where we were engaging an Atlas (along with 3 others) up close and another dropping LRMs and he somehow was able to withstand it and kept fighting.

Next match fitted me against a Centurion and another Hunchback that was helping me (and LRM support) and we still could not knock this guy out!

Before the hotfix, I used to be able to brawl and 2-3 salvos of LRM support later-the target is reduced. Now, I see LRM boats go through their ammo arsenal and could not register a single kill!

Just my observation

Exactly what I'm seeing.

[Relkathi]

UraniumOverdose, on 10 November 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Any weapon that allows to sit behind cover 1000M away and still deal damage, should not do a ton of damage. As others have said it's a support weapon for softening up your targets that if played properly presents little risk to yourself. If you want a weapon system that does all the work for you, then live with the fact that you don't get the high damage numbers or the multiple kills per game that brawlers deserve to get.

You have obviously never been in the military. As currently one of the most powerful weapons in the military is the M109A6 Paladin, which allows Soldiers to rain metal death from 36,000meters away. If weapons in 3049 can't match that, then why other using them at all.

ATM, LRMs are useless, they aren't a threat to any mech, let alone an Atlas.

LRMs should be 1 point of damage per every missile that hits. If you are dumb enough not to seek cover, then you deserve to die.

[Noth]

bogmali, on 10 November 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

Yesterday I was in a match (twice) where we were engaging an Atlas (along with 3 others) up close and another dropping LRMs and he somehow was able to withstand it and kept fighting.

Next match fitted me against a Centurion and another Hunchback that was helping me (and LRM support) and we still could not knock this guy out!

Before the hotfix, I used to be able to brawl and 2-3 salvos of LRM support later-the target is reduced. Now, I see LRM boats go through their ammo arsenal and could not register a single kill!

Just my observation

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

I have no problem with dealing 0 damage to a target in cover. The problem is, you can't deal effective damage to someone who IS NOT in cover right now.

To both of these, then you are doing something wrong.

[Dren Nas]

Bagheera, on 10 November 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Pretty much this. Sorry you can no longer hide behind a hill and drop an atlas in a couple of salvos because the missles find them, and make a RIGHT ANGLE TURN and drop directly on his head.

Similarly, I'm sorry you can no longer destroy a medium in one salvo for the same reason. Yeah, what a pancacking fun game. Stand behind the hill and faceroll your keyboard when there is a lock.



Sorry guy, but if you though LRMS were balanced before the hotfix, I don't even know what to tell you.

Yes, lets use the one day when PGI screwed up and bugged LRMs to do way too much damage as what I'm calling for.

I want their damage output in line with othe weapons with similar slots/tonnage needs, right now they do not compete with them.

Noth, on 10 November 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

To both of these, then you are doing something wrong.

Only if by wrong you mean firing salvo after salvo into someone in the open while they are spotted?

[Noth]

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

Yes, lets use the one day when PGI screwed up and bugged LRMs to do way too much damage as what I'm calling for.

I want their damage output in line with othe weapons with similar slots/tonnage needs, right now they do not compete with them.

If you want the damage output to similar weapons that have shorter range, have to be aimed, kept on target (not just on the box) blocked by even small cover, in some cases are not precise (SRM, SSRM, LBX), then they need to have more risk and skill involved in using them. Before the Artemis, they were easy mode and did more damage with less skill involved than most direct fire weapons.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

This is what happens when people get used to taking out an Atlas in 3 salvos. They expect their broken support weapon to remain broken.

Edited by crabcakes66, 10 November 2012 - 10:17 AM.

[Wispsy]

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Actually, yes, why not let a catapult that fires every one of his 700+ to 1000+ LRMs on an atlas destroy it. Why is it such a bad concept to punish the stupid for not playing smart? Why say "oh it's an atlas! you shouldn't be able to solo one!" when PGI's philosophy is that every mech can kill the other? Right now LRM mechs can NOT kill anyone solo unless it's basically a killsteal.

So you believe that you should be able to punish all players who make a single tactical move or mistake with rains of instant deaths because they did not play smart? So smart play is lrmboating or poptart sniping only....well that may be the game you want but I want my normal games to be fun and involve some mech on mech action :/

Relkathi, on 10 November 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

You have obviously never been in the military. As currently one of the most powerful weapons in the military is the M109A6 Paladin, which allows Soldiers to rain metal death from 36,000meters away. If weapons in 3049 can't match that, then why other using them at all.

ATM, LRMs are useless, they aren't a threat to any mech, let alone an Atlas.

LRMs should be 1 point of damage per every missile that hits. If you are dumb enough not to seek cover, then you deserve to die.

I shoot LASERS! they instantly cause the mech to heat up to THOUSANDS OF DEGREES where they hit! Why the hell do I not cut through mechs like a lightsaber through a battledroid? this game is way too unrealistic WTF stupid...etc...
You are firing explosive missiles. You are doing this against something with tons and tons of armour. Your argument sucks. People who take damage from lrms because they "do not even matter" will die later on due to fighting with half armour even if the rain on them stops. If it continues it adds a definite time limit to your survival, I do not see why it is more fun to make this time limit 10 seconds from a single boat....(5 of those seconds are travel time)

[Shaddock]

I love how everyone uses the 48 hour bug when LRMs would 1-2 shot mechs in their arguments. For 2 weeks about 250 LRMs supporting a mech in close combat would assist with or kill that mech, for 48 hours it was about 60 LRMS, now it is about 400+. I am proposing we go back to the 250ish. That was 1/3 my ammo that I carry, to have the possibility of killing 3 mechs isnt overpowered. Every gauskitty has enough ammo for 5+, SRM boats for 3-4, laser boats whole team etc.

[Bagheera]

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

Yes, lets use the one day when PGI screwed up and bugged LRMs to do way too much damage as what I'm calling for.

I want their damage output in line with othe weapons with similar slots/tonnage needs, right now they do not compete with them.

You original statement was that you could not solo-kill an atlas with LRMs from your cat. That, imo, is by design. You should not be able to stand behind cover and solo kill the heaviest mechs in the game in a matter of minutes by facerolling your keyboard.

Simply responding to what you said in your post guy.

Shaddock, on 10 November 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

I love how everyone uses the 48 hour bug when LRMs would 1-2 shot mechs in their arguments. For 2 weeks about 250 LRMs supporting a mech in close combat would assist with or kill that mech, for 48 hours it was about 60 LRMS, now it is about 400+. I am proposing we go back to the 250ish. That was 1/3 my ammo that I carry, to have the possibility of killing 3 mechs isnt overpowered. Every gauskitty has enough ammo for 5+, SRM boats for 3-4, laser boats whole team etc.

We are bringing that up because of the way the OP framed his complaint. That part in bold there is actually sensible and specific. Grounds for a far more useful conversation. AFAIK, the dmg on LRMs was supposed to be set at 1.7. If it has gone lower than that, then either Paul was incorrect, or the hotfix was bugged and they will be back in line shortly.

Paul Inouye, on 07 November 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

2.0 > 1.7

However, the OP is clearly lementing the loss of that 48 hour window when citing his examples in the first post. Wording is important. Yours is sensible, his was full of tears.

Edited by Bagheera, 10 November 2012 - 10:22 AM.

[Kaijin]

Shaddock, on 10 November 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

When LRMs get to where they are no longer feared on the battlefield, they arent doing their jobs. Weapons are meant to be scary. If/when the forums constantly cry foul because they died while strolling through the open we are going to be left with doing nothing but shooting teddy bears and hugs at each other.

You don't get it. The first-person-shooter crowd is upset about getting damaged by "no-skill" (or "support" - they're interchangeable with this crowd) weapons. Their line of reasoning is any weapon that doesn't place the shooter in direct LOS with the target so return fire can be given is a "support" weapon , and should therefore not do significant damage. So only "no-skill" weapons will fire blanks. Manly direct-fire weapons shoot the real bullets. It's sad - what they're turning this game into, and quite sad that PGI is caving in to them.

[Dren Nas]

Noth, on 10 November 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

If you want the damage output to similar weapons that have shorter range, have to be aimed, kept on target (not just on the box) blocked by even small cover, in some cases are not precise (SRM, SSRM, LBX), then they need to have more risk and skill involved in using them. Before the Artemis, they were easy mode and did more damage with less skill involved than most direct fire weapons.

Don't forget that if someone can not keep a steady target lock on someone, the missiles probably won't be hitting target, so you have to depend on someone else to not screw up. There's the risk.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

There's the risk.

I'm not sure you understand what "risk" means.

[Noth]

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Don't forget that if someone can not keep a steady target lock on someone, the missiles probably won't be hitting target, so you have to depend on someone else to not screw up. There's the risk.

No that is no risk to you. That is risk to the spotter. also If you are supporting your team, not just trying to kil lwhat a scout spotter has locked, there shouldn't be a loss of lock because it's multiple team mates locking the target. Again no risk, and pretty much no skill involved.

If missing is a risk to you then all direct fire weapons have that exact same risk and many times are harder to hit with as well.

Edited by Noth, 10 November 2012 - 10:25 AM.

[bogmali]

Noth, on 10 November 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

To both of these, then you are doing something wrong.

You might be right about me doing it wrong (although I doubt it) but how could you explain the other 3 in my lance team that were engaging the same target? So you're saying that we were all doing it wrong?

Hit registration is still an issue (one explanation) coupled with the LRM nerfing and other weapons having their hit patterns changed (Streaks) could be to blame.