70 replies to this topic

[Monky]

Head hitbox should be standardized. How this hasn't happened by now I don't know.

Using 'its a quirk of the mech' as an excuse is pretty weak, and will only lead to the chassis being discarded when something without the weakness comes out, that can fulfill the same role.

[Dirus Nigh]

Hidirian, on 11 November 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

You think the cockpit on the catapult is too big? Go and play a Cicada and then tell me that again.

True that. I used a couple of cicadas before open beta hit. I quickly learned that streaks where an almost instant head shot. Not to mention lasers being aimed for center mass. I went back to using an awesome. Much safer.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 12 November 2012 - 01:21 PM.

[ODonovan]

ragbasti, on 12 November 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

Sorry, but that has nothing to do with being "fair". A small mech with a small profile of course also has a small cockpit. The catapult was intended to be a long range support mech and of course it has a giant window for a cockpit for reasons of vision on the battefield to do its job properly. Stop whining about things that MAKE SENSE! Your "basic game mechanics" are nothing but bullocks - And if you want to play a brawler-cata, that's your choice but not what a Cata was built for. As for the Atlas being hard to hit in the Cockpit: "A 'Mech as powerful as possible, as impenetrable as possible, and as ugly and foreboding as conceivable, so that fear itself will be our ally." -Aleksandr Kerensky Need I say more ? If so, of course it is hard to hit in the Cockpit, it's a freaking Brawler and having a huge frecking window at the front would just make you a damn joke on the battlefield! The Atlas is a 100 ton killing machine that was biuld for going up close so that every enemy that sees the skull painted on its face would crumble with fear and start running (which really isn't a problem if you consider the speed of an average Atlas). And making the hitbox for all mechs the same size would simply screw balance entirely. I am not saying the game is balanced as is but for gods sake people need to stop whining about their favourit mechs not being rediculously overpowered. Every mech has certain pros and cons - I for myself could whine all day about my Centurions arm being shot off every match and therefore becoming useless on the battlefield OR I could say "**** that, I'm going SRM", and while people have a shot at my arm I blow their stupid heads off with 18 SRMs coming their way because they were to dumb to look at my weapon loadout and think about where to shoot first. LRMs have been "nerfed" after a week of terror and everybody seems to think that things have gone to ***** ever since - they have never been better imo. LRM is a support choice and not something that is supposed to drop an Atlas within a couple seconds. Every weapon involves a certain level of skill to be effective, even lock on weapons such as LRMs and what has been going on at the start of open beta was simply a ton of people being essentially bugusers that didn't know better. There is not perfect mech and certainly no perfect configuration, if you want to have a certain playstyle and be good at it you'll have to practise it! Just because you can't get 5 kills/match anymore only because you have to push more than 1 button is not the games fault, it just shows that you still have a long way to go. PS: Excuse the language but since most players are just ranting all over the forums anyway, I simply don't see the point of taking the time to properly word any argument anymore.

Troll much lately?

Quote

A small mech with a small profile of course also has a small cockpit.

I guess that means only midgets can pilot recon 'mechs then, right? *ROTFLMAO!*
Get a grip! Every 'mech is supposed to have the same internals in the head. Making them the size of the head (because the head is a LOT more than just the cockpit) would mean an Atlas would be an easy kill on the battlefield, so your entire argument about the size of windows on Catapults makes no sense at all.

Quote

...as impenetrable as possible...

That refers to maxed out armor, not a little tiny cockpit window. *ROTFLMAO! (again)*

For game balance and game mechanics, the size needs to be standardized...period. EVERY 'mech has a standard sized cockpit (from the BattleTech rules), life support, sensors, and a couple empty slots which can be used for ammo, HS, or whatever. If you don't like it, too bad. To not have standardized head hitboxes means everyone will soon be driving only Atlases and the entire character of the BattleTech/MechWarrior universe will be lost...and the game will just become another footnote in BattleTech/Mechwarrior history.



-Irish

[Dimento Graven]

Nah, what you're seeing is the increasing prevelance of Crysis engine aimbot hacks.

I've been in games where it looked pretty much like everyone died due to head shots.

Y'know I sure as hell wish PGI would add enhanced logging so that I can review who shot whom, where the hit landed, how much damage occurred.

Not only for this sort of thing, but to help with determining the "real" value of certain quick fixes and such...

[HybridTheory]

Tuku, on 10 November 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

As someone who runs a cat up close and personal .....and someone who has been headshotted more than a few times....Get over it....The head on a catapult is huge.....that whole peice of glass is the head....its the risk you take in rolling with a cat.

Agreed. I pilot them fairly regularly... and besides. Cat is tougher to hit in the left/right torso making the Gauss Cat harder to disarm... every Mech has a weak point. When you use a Cat... don't stand still

[Scratx]

My Laser Cat likes stationary mechs. 28 damage alpha will gut most of a cockpit's armor and structure. Just need to line up a second shot...

Honestly, the vast majority of cockpit kills I see, and cockpit LOSSES, are when either I and/or my target/aggressor are stationary.

[Dagger6T6]

I only pilot Catapults and I have to be honest I can only think of maybe once that I have been headshotted and that was by a Guass rifle... I'm always on the move so maybe that might be a factor

[J4ck4l]

I haven't been using any other Mech than a Catapult and have tried alot of different builds, mostly brawlers with a bit of longrange kick. And, unfortunatly i noticed the bigger cockpit hitbox aswell, with any build. Don't get me wrong, getting headshotted when standing still has always happend now and than. So me being stationairy is a risk i am willing to take at times.
However, lately it happens more than often that i get headshotted by for instance a Dual gauss K2, while moving at 75Kmp/H, while also looking away when he is firing (e.g. showing him the ears instead of CT+cockpit). Sure, a lucky shot is always possible, but the frequency of the cockpit kills is just too high imho. Especially if you take the sometimes strange weapon conversion rates of weapons like gauss and ACs during movement. Which should make short range surgical shots more of a challenge.
I notice it versus other catapults aswell. I seem to inflict cockpit dmg far more easily than before, esp with lasers.

Dagger6T6, on 12 November 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

I only pilot Catapults and I have to be honest I can only think of maybe once that I have been headshotted and that was by a Guass rifle... I'm always on the move so maybe that might be a factor

Noted. I am curious though, what kind of Catapults you pilot. More longrange, or brawlers aswell? This since me moving near say a 5-100m target doesn't help as much as it did before.

I hope they revert the change.

[EnigmaNL]

Monky, on 12 November 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

Head hitbox should be standardized. How this hasn't happened by now I don't know.

Using 'its a quirk of the mech' as an excuse is pretty weak, and will only lead to the chassis being discarded when something without the weakness comes out, that can fulfill the same role.

Head hitbox should NOT be standardized, that makes absolutely no sense at all. Battlemechs have different cockpits, that's just the way it is. Some have a big cockpit, some have a small one, adjust and get used to it.

I hope they don't revert this change.

[Ragor]

ragbasti, on 12 November 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

Sorry, but that has nothing to do with being "fair". A small mech with a small profile of course also has a small cockpit.
(...)

Sorry but...

The cockpit on all weightclasses is about the same size.
Or does the pilot himself grows bigger when leaving his Flea and entering a Battlemaster?

It is more of the opposite:
The smaller the mech the bigger the cockpit gets regarding proportions and mechsize.


Edit:
@OP:
I have the same experience the last days, my K2 brawler goes down quite frequently due to cockpit shots.
At least more often then I was used to and I didn't change my playstyle fielding it.

Edited by Ragor, 13 November 2012 - 03:48 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Didn't noticed any change, and I'm running Catapults-only. I headshot and get headshoted as much as before the patch.

[Calmon]

EnigmaNL, on 13 November 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

Head hitbox should NOT be standardized, that makes absolutely no sense at all. Battlemechs have different cockpits, that's just the way it is. Some have a big cockpit, some have a small one, adjust and get used to it.

I hope they don't revert this change.

100% agree, I mean I could use more torso twist range for my atlas as well but I don't want it! If we start to take out the specific stuff I don't feel piloting an atlas or a cat.

I want far more differences!

[EnigmaNL]

Calmon, on 13 November 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

100% agree, I mean I could use more torso twist range for my atlas as well but I don't want it! If we start to take out the specific stuff I don't feel piloting an atlas or a cat.

I want far more differences!

Indeed, if you take away the differences between the mechs you might as well just play one and never buy another.

[p4r4g0n]

Thanks to this thread I got my first cat headshot kill today

[Xenok]

Dagger6T6, on 12 November 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

I only pilot Catapults and I have to be honest I can only think of maybe once that I have been headshotted and that was by a Guass rifle... I'm always on the move so maybe that might be a factor

I need to preface this, with I don't really care about the heat shot issue. It has not caused me to stop playing the catapult and it wont until we get the cataphrac and the jaggermech and even if addressed my play would still switch to these two chasis.

I was head shot 5 matches in a row on Sunday night, Every one of them moving 74kph - 84kph (315xl engine with the speed tweak). Twice by gausecats, once by LRMs, Once by AC20 and some lasers and once by 9 medium lasers. It was a bad streak, the next game I got 4 kills and 2 assists with less than 5k in repairs. It happens both ways and if it did not the game would either become boring or frustrating and I would quit playing.

Atlas have in past games had a particularly big head hit box. The Atlas freaks in closed beta screamed about this and it was made tiny, oh so tiny. Even with this change the highlander will mean people play a lot less atlas and more highlander. Without it the Atlas would cease to be played once the highlander comes out. The same has been true of the catapult, once we have the catafrac and the jaggermech you will see very few if any Cats in game (i for one will only play my Founders cat, adn then only to make 25% more cash). Its for the same reason that in past games the atlas was only used by the Atlas freaks.

The fact remains that the head area of the mech is the same size on all mechs. In TT you do not have different odds of hitting the head on different mechs. You do have different levels of armor on other areas, but the head is universally the weak spot,

Regardless of any of this, Good game design would say that head hit boxes are the same size on all mechs since we have moved from needing a pair of ones on two six sided dice to targeting the head on the mech. It would stand to reason both from the TT conversion and from just some reasonable game design that head size should be reasonably the same on all Mechs. Any argument to the contrary does not make sense for game play, balance or Tabletop argument.

[Antagonist]

Seeing as every mech cockpit has six internals and can be armored with up to 9 points of armor, heads of any mech - 20 to 100 tons - should have close to the same size, with varying differences in shape.

My 0.02$.

Also, I'd like to see you take down a light mech via cockipt redecoration. That is, actually aiming for the cockpit of a moving mech other than an Awesome.

[J4ck4l]

EnigmaNL, on 13 November 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

Head hitbox should NOT be standardized, that makes absolutely no sense at all. Battlemechs have different cockpits, that's just the way it is. Some have a big cockpit, some have a small one, adjust and get used to it.

I hope they don't revert this change.

Agreed, head hitboxes should indeed NOT be standardized. You are quite right when you say, different mechs have and should have different cockpits.The difference between how it was and how it is now is rather big in my opinion. For me it feels as if the Cata cockpit is nearly as big as CT when looking straight on it. yes it is a big cockpit, but not as big as the hitbox is now. Thing is, it's hard to proove how big it really is compared to the cockpit model...
Let's say... revert back to between before and now? Like 50/50 ?

Regards

Edited by J4ck4l, 13 November 2012 - 10:09 AM.

[AlanEsh]

Hidirian, on 11 November 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

You think the cockpit on the catapult is too big? Go and play a Cicada and then tell me that again.

I've played CDAs almost exclusively for 4 days and got headshot about once. I went back to the Cat last night and got headshot 3 matches in a row and put it back in the mechbay.

[Tywald]

I've seldom been able to get a headshot on a moving mech and mostly only hit their heads as an accident rather than on purpose. But then i'm an european player so i'll have to adjust for 150ms latency and whit the current movement prediction it's isn't as easy as too simply "Aim at the cockpit".

Anyways, I think one major contribution to why the Cats seems more prone to catch headshots is becuse the cockpit lies almost in perfect center of its body. When people are targeting a mech they're aiming at the center of it and on a Catapult it's easier to hit the cockpit by "misstake". This doesn't happen as often on the humanoid mechs (Dragons/Centurions/Atlai) becuse in order to hit their cockpits you must aim high on the body.

[fxrsniper]

I thinks its right where it needs to be considering the fire power and heat they can handle 6 streaks rips to many mechs apart now