70 replies to this topic

[MavRCK]

I feel that after the latest patch and hotfix with artemis that the catapult headshot is more difficult than previously - perhaps there was an unannounced change? (Or I'm worse than a pilot than before!!!)

[Monky]

EnigmaNL, on 13 November 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

Head hitbox should NOT be standardized, that makes absolutely no sense at all. Battlemechs have different cockpits, that's just the way it is. Some have a big cockpit, some have a small one, adjust and get used to it. I hope they don't revert this change.

Justifying poor mechanics is never a good idea. Cockpits are the easiest way to kill a mech in game if you can hit them, having some mechs with bigger ones and some mechs with smaller ones makes no sense. This is a sim shooter game, not a real life military sim where we are trying to reproduce 'manufacturing/design' defects.

[Josh Davion]

I've been head shooting Catapults since early Closed Beta. It hasn't changed from my perspective.

[Eco]

more crying from people who got owned...

[Atayu]

At one point there was a easier mech to headshot. That was the awesome, but after the last time of reducing its head hitbox, the catapult is now the easiest mech in the game to headshot once again. Every mech seems to get its head hitbox made smaller exept the catapult I guess they like it getting headshot so that is the way it is going to be.

[Ragz]

Tuku, on 10 November 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

As someone who runs a cat up close and personal .....and someone who has been headshotted more than a few times....Get over it....The head on a catapult is huge.....that whole peice of glass is the head....its the risk you take in rolling with a cat.

this is correct and similar to the madcats, when you run a mech where its head sticks out further than anything else and takes up 1/4 ish of the center torso, guess what everyone learns to aim at....

[Ragz]

Monky, on 13 November 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Justifying poor mechanics is never a good idea. Cockpits are the easiest way to kill a mech in game if you can hit them, having some mechs with bigger ones and some mechs with smaller ones makes no sense. This is a sim shooter game, not a real life military sim where we are trying to reproduce 'manufacturing/design' defects.

no you're crying, this has ALWAYS been a mechanic of the game, from TT to every iteration of the video games. (maybe not one, its the only version i haven't played, and the tactic games, which you just don't get to aim). in the 90's there were tips to avoid picking mechs with big heads, for the very reason of getting rolled by people that know better or at least cover your head when big guns are shooting at you. any way the cats are suppose to be fire support your not really suppose to be close, and if your standing still... well c'mon your asking for it. I love mad cats, but i'm well aware that if and when they come out, i will be head shotted to hell and back.

Edited by Ragz, 13 November 2012 - 04:10 PM.

[AlanEsh]

Ragz, on 13 November 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

no you're crying, this has ALWAYS been a mechanic of the game, from TT to every iteration of the video games. (maybe not one, its the only version i haven't played, and the tactic games, which you just don't get to aim). in the 90's there were tips to avoid picking mechs with big heads, for the very reason of getting rolled by people that know better or at least cover your head when big guns are shooting at you. any way the cats are suppose to be fire support your not really suppose to be close, and if your standing still... well c'mon your asking for it. I love mad cats, but i'm well aware that if and when they come out, i will be head shotted to hell and back.

Table top (Battletech) does not differentiate between sizes of mechs' heads for to-hit purposes.

The primary Catapult config has 4ML as well as the fire support LRMs. And with only what, 8 shots (?) stock, the C1 most certainly isn't a stand-off only mech.

So, your inaccuracies aside, here's the problem with some mechs having much more vulnerable heads than others... there is zero reason to program in this weakness. There is no "benefit" to having a fat head up on a stick where it can get shot off. The game doesn't give easily headshotted mechs some other advantage to compensate.

Building in arbitrary vulnerabilities like fat heads or weak codpieces does absolutely nothing positive for the game, unless that mech happens to have some other distinct advantage, and with the hardpoint system that's rarely the case.

[Aratan Aenor]

I'm not sure the catapult's head hitbox should be considered a drawback in the current version of the game. With the wonky hit detection you can drill an overheated catapult's cockpit with 2 consecutive shots of dual gauss or 4 large pulse lasers and have the damage spread out over the arms, legs, and pretty much anywhere but what you were aming at.

[IntruderAlert]

I believe more than hit-box issue..is the fact that more people are learning that head shot aiming kills cats.
The majority of people generally always shot at the big cat ears to remove their missles previously.
As the player base learns, the tactics and outcome change. I have always ran several cat designs...my favorite
mech! And have almost from day 1 realized that the tippy-top of a cat head was the sweet spot.
I have often got one shot kills with dual guass and see artemis lrms doing the same.
However, I am not getting one-shotted or head shotted any more than before in my cats.

This isn't World of Mechcraft..we can't all be mageMechs...you may actually lose sometimes...OMG!! NOOOOO!

Edited by IntruderAlert, 14 November 2012 - 02:33 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Catapult head hitbox isn't that big... it's just conveniently placed to be hit.

The Awesome has a ridiculously big head hitbox.

As for Catapult's being headshot more, well, maybe because they aren't glowing as brightly as they were a week ago? It was pretty hard to location target them when you were blinded and plunged into a world of darkness...

[Hayashi]

I've been taking Catapults for the past few games, unlocked basics on all the three chassis I've used so far already. Played mostly PUG, and a small fraction 2-3 man teams.

Never been headshot even once, even by Gausscats. However, I keep getting critted in the engine before losing all my CT internals - that accounts for 100% of my deaths right now.

[Dimento Graven]

Hayashi, on 14 November 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

I've been taking Catapults for the past few games, unlocked basics on all the three chassis I've used so far already. Played mostly PUG, and a small fraction 2-3 man teams.

Never been headshot even once, even by Gausscats. However, I keep getting critted in the engine before losing all my CT internals - that accounts for 100% of my deaths right now.

I'll say that my experience is somewhat similar to this, though I have been taking head shots. Darn near all my deaths I've always had some armor left on the 'mech, no areas black.

Very frustrating when I'm trying to kill that "super hunchie" who's at 19%, legged, no arms, black left/right torso, and dark, dark red center torso and back. But of course, I'm piloting a missle boat most of the time so it's hard to get kills...

[Corison]

The fact that you didn't get headshot has nothing to do with hitbox being right or wrong, simply means you played against players who didn't know how to or didn't have the skill to line up a good shot.

Also remember the Armor display is KNOWN to be broken, anyone that plays (Esp a mod) should know that by now. The last surge of damage is frequently not displayed on the mech damage display. Even though you have been cored, you may still see armor there.

Honestly the Dev's should get their keisters in gear and standardize all of the mechs head hit area's. It should be just as hard to headshot an Atlas as a Commando within reason.

[Dimento Graven]

Corison, on 15 November 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

Honestly the Dev's should get their keisters in gear and standardize all of the mechs head hit area's. It should be just as hard to headshot an Atlas as a Commando within reason.

Honestly, for the most part, I think they have done this already. I think it is 'within reason' based on the size of the 'mech and exposure of the head.

An Atlas cockpit is behind one of the eyes, not the entire head. The Cat head is at the very tippy-top of the torso kind of towards the back. A cent's has glass around his cockpit so it's semi easy to spot..

I don't think head hit boxes should be altered at this time.

I think more effort should be spent defeating Crysis engine aimbot hacks.

[vettie]

Hugster, on 10 November 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

The head hit box on the catapults is now way to big, very easy to hit making them extremely vulnerable at medium range to lasers

please revert back the change

I agree, but it does keep my repair bills lower...


The Atlas head hit box seems very small now (I know it was HUGE) and harder to hit. The Awesome is probably next in line behind the Cat as it has a really big head hit area.

I also agree there are many other things that need work before we tighten the hit boxes. Compared to random crashes, memory leak - 4fps lock then eventually crash, over heat screen staying even tho some have tried the P shutdown restart method to no avail, the ability to run right through any mech (no knockdown no stopping), oh the list goes on, the hit boxes, IMO are a fix that can come later.

I would gladly pay the repair bill and get killed more than I should to get some of these basic issues fixed.

Edited by vettie, 15 November 2012 - 08:38 AM.

[Ragz]

Angelicon, on 14 November 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

Table top (Battletech) does not differentiate between sizes of mechs' heads for to-hit purposes.

The primary Catapult config has 4ML as well as the fire support LRMs. And with only what, 8 shots (?) stock, the C1 most certainly isn't a stand-off only mech.

So, your inaccuracies aside, here's the problem with some mechs having much more vulnerable heads than others... there is zero reason to program in this weakness. There is no "benefit" to having a fat head up on a stick where it can get shot off. The game doesn't give easily headshotted mechs some other advantage to compensate.


Building in arbitrary vulnerabilities like fat heads or weak codpieces does absolutely nothing positive for the game, unless that mech happens to have some other distinct advantage, and with the hardpoint system that's rarely the case.

4 mpls on a heavy doesnt turn it into a power house thats a back up weapon to fend off harasment.
And stay in the battle once those missle bays are gone.

Okay tabletop no advantage, you can also punch kick and eject... And no matter what range missles were crazy inaccurate. The pc games from at least mwII have all had pros and cons to head size though. Its a sim, its not simulating a lack of understanding proportion... If your heads the size of a barn its the size of a barn. It does serve a purpose it makes people second guess running straight at 2 gauss rifles. Like centurions you twist to catch damage with the arm i dont go around gun arm first. For a reason. If you want everything similar go get some folks together in a pre made with all the same mech but things like this encourage people to come up with solutions to situations inherent in the design of a mech. By your logic its arbitrary to have mechs of varying sizes then.

Edited by Ragz, 16 November 2012 - 08:41 PM.

[Corison]

1) The models were designed for looks, and were NEVER intended to be used in a FPS style game.
2) The core game rules define the odds of hitting the head on an average shot.

Guess what? Its not _FUN_ to have your head blown off in the first seconds of a match from half way across the map on a consistent basis.

Simply put, getting a head shot on _ANY_ mech should be fairly rare and require either a lot of luck or skill... Or an enemy shutting down in front of you.

IMO the dev's need to get a clue and set head hitbox's according to the games intended play, not by some random artists choice to increase this or that because it "looks" different.

[xenoglyph]

Actually right now I think all the head hitboxes seems like they're finally the same size. I haven't been headshotted in mine in a long time. It's easier to go for a head shot though because the cockpit is right in center mass. You don't have to go out of your way to aim for the cockpit like you would say for an Atlas or Hunchback.

edit: Corison, before you spaz out on the devs, realize that the 3d model doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how the hitboxes are defined. Hitboxes have been tweaked all beta long.

Edited by xenoglyph, 19 November 2012 - 08:56 AM.

[Corison]

I am aware that the hit boxes have seen a lot of tweaking... and its getting much closer but its still an issue. I know that I for one make Cats one of my top targets, as I can land head hits fairly easy and that's saying something as I am a... Horrible horrible shot.