804 replies to this topic

[Korbyn McColl]

MethosFurey, on 03 May 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

I'll just ask straight out. Do you think that 'Smoke Jaguar Reborn' will be allowed?

Hylius, on 03 May 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Okay, these statements are a bit murky and can be misconstrued multiple ways. Some clarification would be nice.

For example, our unit: Eridani Light Pony. Our name is a derivative of a canon unit. However we claim no ties to the ELH, do not claim to represent them, be a subfaction, that their history is ours, etc. etc. We just derived our name and icon based on theirs due to both being equines. That's it. Does that fall under the canon protection scheme? I don't think so the way you described it but it would be nice for it to be in the clear, because I imagine a lot of people would report it just because of the naming. (If you do allow a report method for names, I'd suggest implementing a "cannot report because already verified to be okay" setting in your design so you don't have to waste time on stuff already discussed. Plus it removes the "this mod said it was okay but you say it's not and now my group is disbanded" moments.)

Werewolf Fetladral, on 03 May 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

that answered? lol

On the same note... Wolf Spider Battalion? So instead of Battalion, Wolf Spider [WS] would be allowed.
or as long as we don't have Wolf Dragoons in front of out names, Wolf Spider Battalion is good?

I might just not be understanding all the fine print here.

Werewolf Fetladral, on 03 May 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

Cannon Units = NO
Sub-cannon Units = If you change the name around and association. (should be allowed IMO)

Bryan already stated that the CSRs will have the final say in this. If a CSR feels that your unit name is too closely tied to an existing canon unit or sub-unit it will be changed or you will be banned.

At this point, I think it's safe to say Smoke Jaguar Reborn, Eridani Light Pony and Wolf Spiders would all three be subject to a CSR's discretion (although putting Smoke and Jaguar side by side is apt to not make it through the name filter in the first place). If I were you, I'd play it safe. That's the route we're going.

[Storm McIntyre]

Magnificent *******, on 03 May 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

I feel exactly the same way. I'm not going to name names or point fingers but my personal opinion is that the merc corp community is taking this very poorly. We need to get over this minor issue and adjust to the change. Yeah, it sucks for people who have ordered custom t-shirts, registered domain names, and tattooed their right buttocks... but we need to sack up and get over it. If nothing else we all need to decide on new names.

Agreed. Well said!

[Korbyn McColl]

Storm McIntyre, on 03 May 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

I think this decision will ultimately stimulate a lot of creativity for players. A chance to add something that is totally unique to the BTU. Something that they can point to with pride and say, "We built that from the ground up!". I understand that players have over the years claimed to be either a canon unit or part of a canon unit, and they are somewhat disgruntled by this ruling. I look at it this way: I don't get to go out and call myself Microsoft, or a subsidiary of Microsoft, just because they are an awesome company. If I'm lucky, I start my own original company, and later on manage to become a force in the software world in my little corner of it. Even if I can't use their name as part of my company's logo, I have created something that nobody can say is a copy of anybody else. Will I ever be able to call myself Microsoft? Probably not, and looking at what I've managed to create, why would I want to? I have created a unique company that I and maybe a group of friends has built from the ground up, and it has its own unique niche in history, and nobody can take that from us.


Not even Microsoft.


I would urge my fellow followers of MWO to keep an open mind. Don't view this as a setback, but rather an opportunity. An opportunity to step outside of another larger unit's shadow and start casting some ominous shadows of your own.

Just a perspective from a Lone Wolf.

We're already hard at work in NWH doing exactly that.

A lot of people don't realize that the very reason many of us chose canon merc units is that we've been role-playing in those units for decades (seriously). Never forget, source books for these units were created specifically so that players of the TT/RPG game would join them.

No worries, though. We're still role-players. We'll adjust and adapt. We're not Northwind Highlanders afterall? OK, maybe our ancestors were and we split off from them when they returned to Northwind under House Davion in 3028. Whatever. We'll work something out.

[Oswin Aurelius]

jimsolo, on 03 May 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

"The Customer is ALWAYS right"

I imagine you're one of those people that think Bioware should change Mass Effect's ending because you didn't like it.

(DISCLAIMER: I am only using Team Banzai as an example, no offense is intended to the player-run Team Banzai group.)

I think Team Banzai is an amazing unit and I relate with them very well, having a great thirst for knowledge and 'mech combat, but I never once had the audacity to think I could butt my way into the canon and say I was a member of them. The most I knew I ever had the right to do (and wanted to do) is make my own mercenary company that shared the values of Team Banzai. I never wanted to be Team Banzai, I wanted to be like Team Banzai.

In short, anyone pissed off about this decision needs to get over themselves and suck it up. You're not Dr. Banzai, and you never will be.

[Claw55]

I can say right now that the majority of the 1st R[Redacted] R[Redacted]s are in support of this decision. Besides, even nameless, we're still a big step up from The [Redacted] [Redacted]s. No offense, [Redacted] .

Edited by Claw55, 03 May 2012 - 05:44 PM.

[Bullwerk]

Claw55, on 03 May 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

I can say right now that the majority of the 1st R[Redacted] R[Redacted]s are in support of this decision. Besides, even nameless, we're still a big step up from The [Redacted] [Redacted]s. No offense, [Redacted] .

My compatriot here speaks true about this matter. When I joined the 1RR and got involved we had a discussion early on about this type of thing happening and we are okay with it. We are bigger fans of BattleTech and MWO than we are our individual name.

We will retain the name for the out of game stuff (website etc) but in game we can be the 1st Robinson Regiment, 1st Ranger Regiment, or some other similar thing. WE are going to lose no sleep about it and we are gonna enjoy the game PGI is putting together FOR us, because they are truly making this game FOR the fans (knowing that if they do it right the fans will shower them with money).

This decision makes things better for the fans, and this will become obvious once we get into the game if my history with online games can be counted on in the least.

[thrashdog]

empath, on 03 May 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

...

Okay.

So I'm going to take the safer assumption that "Team Banzai" (which might well have its own separate trademark issues ) is going on the 'Canon Merc Unit List'; I guess we can throw "Banzai Institute for Advanced Armored Warfare" in the hat, instead. *shrug*

No biggie. BIAAW almost sounds like a battle cry.

My only concern is not directly relating to MW:O itself, but...well, [TB] was active in the NBT/MWL era, and I'd come along as MW4:Mercs was dying down...and I never actually got around to being officially admitted into the team/clan/unit (and they have {had?} protocols for this), so despite being just about the only active poster back on the BI's forums for a 'lean period', and kinda the active representative over here, I'm hardly the Sempai or anything...

...meh, this is gonna be like herding cats, for pete's sake...

I'll admit to a little frustration at the idea of not being able to call ourselves Team Banzai. We've been Team Banzai for something like a decade now. Some of us damn near grew up in the group. Hell, we have shirts! And license plates! And bumper stickers! A part of me feels like our identity is being stolen from us.

Now the more reasonable side of me (and our resident attorney-at-law/Solaris VII champion) says it's hard to claim ownership of a name that we stole from FASA, and that FASA stole in turn from 20th Century Fox. And like empath says, we've got alternatives should Team Banzai end up locked out -- Hong Kong/New Avalon Cavaliers, Blue Blazer Irregulars, etc... maybe this is the nega-Sphere, and we'll grow goatees and call ourselves the World Crime League? Devil Man is right; we could adapt. But losing that name that we've had for ten years would be a sore blow.

And empy -- don't worry, we'll figure it out. Maybe after we elect a new Sempai, after leaving the current guy in place for three years after his 6-month term ran out!

[Kudzu]

Devil Man, on 03 May 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

A lot of people don't realize that the very reason many of us chose canon merc units is that we've been role-playing in those units for decades (seriously). Never forget, source books for these units were created specifically so that players of the TT/RPG game would join them.

The flip side of that is that it's a lot easier to multiple people wanting to be the same unit in a small group of friends then it is to deal with it when there's 100,000 strangers clamoring over famous names.

There's really no happy medium or perfect solution to it-- if you do it on a first come first serve basis you end up with a bunch of butthurt people who were a few seconds late in registering (or a small group of trolls who snake the names of famous units just to **** people off), if you do it this way then at least everyone is equally denied.

I'm more discouraged that it looks like house players are going to have to deal with large masses of subpar players and the competitive gamer in me hates that idea.

[Storm McIntyre]

Devil Man, on 03 May 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

We're already hard at work in NWH doing exactly that.

A lot of people don't realize that the very reason many of us chose canon merc units is that we've been role-playing in those units for decades (seriously). Never forget, source books for these units were created specifically so that players of the TT/RPG game would join them.

No worries, though. We're still role-players. We'll adjust and adapt. We're not Northwind Highlanders afterall? OK, maybe our ancestors were and we split off from them when they returned to Northwind under House Davion in 3028. Whatever. We'll work something out.

No offense intended there DM. I, like you, have been a Battletech TT gamer since '83, so I know that role-players are great at adapting and overcoming any roadblocks thrown in their way. I also know that when you have a certain house or unit that you have become attached to, you sink a lot of hard work into fleshing out that unit, and its history. MWO is going to be something totally different from the other games that are out there and that we have played in the past, and I'm looking forward to seeing what new and exciting things the players come up with.

[Threat Doc]

The statements were very clear to me about how this works, and I'm supremely tired of hearing this, now. I'm out.

[soulfire]

One of the problems of this whole mmm problem is one those who are making the game and setting it all up should have for seen this problem coming long ways off and should have thought this all out sooner. Reading whats been said so far to this point from what I am reading its still a not sure thing. One of the small problems is that non of us out here knows just whats going to be in the game and how house, merc units will operate. Listening and reading old interviews its sounding similar to world of tanks.Why would it matter a hoot if this group called themselves this or not other than you didnt want people to mistake what your "Innersphere news" was talking about with actual player units. Thats why we were told that it was ok to just run the title of the group together and it would be fine. Now, no cant be that way for now but maybe someday. Now if your name is even mistaken as that group we will change it. But hey if you want to be a house unit go for it !You can earn that in honor points or ? still nothing known for sure...
. . Many of these units whether it house units or merc units have people that have played under them for 20 years or more. Great many of us like the "canon" units because we know the history of them for better or worse and allot of us have some kind of connection to them. IN the three Merc units that I have seen no one uses the names of the fictional char as their own in the unit.No one claims the unit as theirs. There is no one playing GraysonDeath Carlyle in GDL. nor McLeod in NWH. that I know of. Make your own unit I can not wait to come into the game and see a Merc Group called "Big Bubbas Slam Dunkers Merc group." "give us the job and its a slam dunk!"
. I can understand if you had many groups fighting for the same canon units but other than what Wolf Dragoons I haven't seen it happen. In the rest of the units we've all just gravitated together. Personnely you should treat merc units just the same as house units, you can join the northwind highlander just so you 80 people know, who have been playing together, made your own web sites,sticker and such, your just a unit in that merc unit I think all of us would be happy. At the moment it appears your giving the house units a pat on the head," work hard and you can be something" then you have turned around to Merc core and slapped us across the face saying bad! make your own names. You tell us there wont be the internal politics in Bubbas slam Dunkers as there will be in Northwind Highlanders? Come now lets take a reality check with human nature. This is your game you make the call but I think you need to do what Paul and Fox and others have done and interact with a large part of what will be your games paying community or not yourself.

Edited by soulfire, 03 May 2012 - 06:35 PM.

[3Xtr3m3]

After reading this and the other thread on Claiming names....My eyes ache.

Everyone, please, take a few days to absorb the info. Think, long and hard.

And give Bryan his well deserved Kudos for his time and input.

[Despaxas]

I am excited about the idea that WD or GDL or any number of other Cannon units might become Factions you can join.

[rafgod]

I can empathize with the role players. And hopefully, as some of the larger, well-known merc units become factions..you'll be able to join and fight for that faction (and go up in rank, etc.)

You'll just have to be ok with not running that unit.

[guardian wolf]

Bryan Ekman, on 03 May 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

We can't control people "claiming assocaition", however if your name implies association, it will be changed.

Okay, so if I'm getting this right, and, I hope I am, this would mean that, even something like the 1st HellJumpers Company, (which my step brother, some friends and I RPed) which was SPONSORED, by the Wolf's Dragoons, and so did a lot of work with the Wolf's Dragoons, but was never officially a part of the WD, (until after the Clan Invasion, we got called in to help replace a lot of the losses on some regiments, mainly Alpha, but I digress). Would that be available, or is it still under the implied association rule?

[Turbo Corvair]

I simply wish to state that I thoroughly approve of this decision. This whole thing was shaping up to be a real mess if Canon names were allowed in any form. I think that anything that looks like it is trying to hint at any canon unit will/should be disallowed. I do feel for the folks who have been operating under some canon name for (often many) years. I myself am a recently inducted member of "Clan Smoke Jaguar" but I hope those guys would rather nobody have the name rather than see it sullied by a bunch of wannabe's with misspelled variants of the name.

I do have one question if Bryan is still in a generous mood. Will non-player run house units have any kind of unit cohesion whatsoever or will it simply be a bragging right?

The way I see it is that earning membership in these units will just be for show, and that seeing a full lance of MechWarriors from the same non player run unit will be rare, whilst seeing a lone member of such a unit among a mix of other players will be common. This is unfortunate, however...

What I can imagine is creating a community externally that functions something like this:

I decide to set up House Davion "2nd Fanboy Unoriginals" (a canon unit to which membership can be earned)

I create a website and set up external game communications.

I run the unit externally the same way that I would run an original "merc" unit, but we play within the House Loyalty system. Membership to my externally created House Davion "2nd Fanboy Unoriginals" requires earning (and maintaining) membership in game via the Loyalty system to this canon unit, as well as application and acceptance to the external player run House Davion "2nd Fanboy Unoriginals".

Using primarily external communications etc. we organize and arrange to fight together as much as possible creating a semblance of unit cohesion. Personally I would also use the built in rank system in game, since having a "Corp CEO" would not be needed. The only thing we would need is a single community organizer to maintain the site and membership criteria (in the example, that would be me).

How does that sound Bryan? =)

Edited by Turbo Corvair, 03 May 2012 - 07:52 PM.

[Togg Bott]

Firefly, on 03 May 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

I think you're misunderstanding my intent. I'm okay with the devs' decision. I'm not interested in retaining the name because I work in video games and I have a healthy respect for what these guys have to deal with announcing a decision like this - and then there's knowing how this stuff rolls, how filters work, how CSR policies and procedures deal with circumventing the filter system, why and how name lockouts function, etc.

What I *AM* interested in, however, is retaining as close a semblance as possible to the name we've used for ten years, simply to keep close to it. As in, it makes no sense for BWC to suddenly change to Ominous Latin Name because it's a 180. If we're going to change (and we are), I'd prefer it to be more of a 15-degree angle than a complete 180. Does that make sense?

Understandably, people are going to be pissed. They'll live. Like I said - we'll be there. Hopefully, as something close to what we've always been. Either way it doesn't change a thing for us. The end.

nigrum vidua comitatu

[IceFyre]

You have no idea how much more I am suddenly interested in how Hawken turns out. Wonder if the Meteor devs will take such a constraining viewpoint... Probably not since their whole game is "original" IP.

Of course I'll also be able to destructively waste time playing MechWarrior Tactics (admit it, most of you are intrigued by this one also) or Reign of Thunder or even <gasp!> Solaris Assault Tech. Is there a pattern emerging here?

In the meantime I think I'll be spending more time in MWLL where no one gives two hoots what you call your unit, company or faction and less time reading the MWO forums since it's become pretty obvious that the "since we own the IP, they will come and pay anyway" mentality has taken root.

Ice

[Sassori]

I figure what I'll do is work my way up in Lyran Commonwealth, and then if I find enough people I like dropping with and work well with, maybe, /MAYBE/ make a merc group of our own. It really depends a lot on how it handles premades. If I can group up with 11 people I know, within my House and drop as 3 lances of friends then I don't need to worry about being the Skye Rangers until we earn it. Then it /means/ something, a lot more than just 'claiming' the name. It's something we fought and bled (Virtually) for.

It's the same thing with a blood name for the Clans I'd figure. Anyone can /claim/ to have the blood of Kerensky (A lot of clanners do) but not /everyone/ will be able to have the blood name. Earning that name makes it have a lot more weight, earning the rank of Colonel for example, has a lot more weight, than just saying you are these things.

I'm personally pretty glad to see that the established IP merc companies might end up as factions of their own, then the Devs can use them by having them shift allegiances and the like, are the GDL your friends this week, or are they enemies? Can't wait to see it if they do go that route.

[Moksha Raver]

I like the idea of canon Merc units being NPC. Bottom line, I don't really care what unit I'm part of! I just want to play the game!!!! From reading all the forum subjects, etc., it looks to me that there is going to be enough content to satisfy most gamers!