804 replies to this topic

[Fetladral]

Do people realize that for alot of these units to actually be in game PGI probably has to have bought the rights be able to use "2nd Davion Heavy Guard" or whatever and any of the merc units. Same for any mechs that are in the game PGI has to have bought the right to be able to use it in the game its alot different when its an MMO compared to a single player game. Anything related to BT that is going to be in names, weapons, mechs they have to buy the rights to use it. I'm not going to ask what rights they did buy because it doesn't matter to me. And the difference between the house units and merc units is that the house units probably won't be player run still. Where that unit will be will be assigned to by whatever is going on (player controlled events, canon events etc) where merc units will be player run and they CHOOSE what contracts to take where to go and such.

I don't know exactly what it is but my understanding is if someone wanted Wolfs Dragoons theyd have to get the rights and cite EVERY SINGLE COPYRIGHTED material that mentions Wolfs Dragoons. Games, Books, comics (if there are any) and any other source I think it goes down to the page that its on say "such and such book on page 452"

Edited by Fetladral, 03 May 2012 - 08:20 PM.

[HeIIequin]

I think before everyone gets all riled up and begins burning bridges over this, you should wait for more specific info. It's possible PGI isn't going into intricate detail because they are still working it out, but decided to give us players info on the direction they're headed towards anyways. Tell them what you think, but do so respectfully.

It's my understanding that the RP element for many players is as, or more important than actual gameplay. I get it, but I still understand PGI's stance on this. You shouldn't get to be your canon unit just because you registered it first. I'm sure there's someone out there in the world who used 'your' canon name before you did, but for whatever reason isn't around here to claim it yet. Why do you deserve the name more than they do? Besides, if you DO claim it, do you really want a bunch of W0lf Dr4g00nz with various spellings running around? I sure don't. Names with awful spellings get on my nerves .

I'm with those who hope that sub-units, or units sponsored by a canon unit will remain available for use (unless bound by copyright somewhere). Even better if they have these units NPC/Dev run like the House units, and let players join them that way. If I had to bet, I would guess that this will be the direction PGI will try to take. You might not get your cake, but there's at least pie!

[Edit] Oh and as for the Application To Add Your Merc Corp Page topic, I'm guessing it was posted simply to provide a list of all the groups out there looking for players. It was in no way accepting peoples names, but just trying to be helpful to people looking to find a unit to play MWO with. I agree they could have handled that better though, since the last thing they want to do is have all these people create websites and stuff for their group, and then tell them the name they picked can't be used. That topic was posted back in Dec though, so they prob hadn't gone into any detail on this subject yet.

Edited by HeIIequin, 03 May 2012 - 08:41 PM.

[FinnMcKool]

ok I will be happy whatever, I have waited soooo long for this game, I just ask that we all take a step back , think hard, wait and see how it goes in the BETA.

and pgi; be careful about splitting the baby, the intention was to know who the true mother was, not have a dead baby.

truth is the game is looking to be very complex and I like that.

[Ravn]

If you can't pick something cannon to the fiction, pick something that is cannon to your experience.

Ravn, on 19 April 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

RK and zeus, what's the merc group going to be called?

Zuesacoatl, on 19 April 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

We are going to be called Spectres Ravens, in honor of one of our fallen comrades. He was a great man that was taken from us too soon, and was SaKhan of the W!O Ravens while I was ilKhan of the Clans. We lost a good friend in him, like a father to the lot of us, and it is the least we can do to keep his Mech legacy alive. He was one of the guys that would laugh no matter how many body parts were shot off lol.

RkAngel Crow, on 19 April 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

Zeus,

I can still hear him laughing his you know what off because someone blew him to pieces in his uller he loved so much. Miss him very much.

Edited by Ravn, 03 May 2012 - 08:28 PM.

[Monky]

Seems pretty cut and dry along very obvious lines,

First - There are incredibly complicated litigation issues involved with battletech/mechwarrior. Many MANY different authors/companies/publishers have contributed to the creation of the lore. Having a player run canon group opens loopholes that could lead to lawsuits, and we know how those turn out.

Second - A fan does not own rights to a merc corp whether they played the last 3 millenia as them in their TT group anymore than a fan writing fan fiction for batman since the beginning 'owns rights' to batman, or anything related to it. You may really like that group, and that is fine, but it is unrealistic to expect the entire world to cowtow to your demands just for the satisfaction of it, how is your claim more legit than any other person/group? Especially in regards to the rights holders who are the caretakers of this fictional world.

Third - It has been made apparent that merc groups are 'on the table' as a joinable faction, and the framework for that is being laid out as we speak. PGI is LISTENING to you guys, lighten up a little eh? Make them aware, politely and reasonably as to your concerns without loaded questions and pointed remarks and you're likely to be listened to.

Fourth - If none of that works - consider this. You log in on day 1, register your group 'The Righteous Potatos' after your much beloved in canon merc group. Except you don't. Someone has already taken it. OK regroup, quickly decide on another close name to that and try it. No dice. In the time it took you to decide someone grabbed that one too. Ok... repeat until you have to spell it as T|-|3 R1g|-|730|_|$ P()747()$ ..... Do you still feel like this is a good idea at this point? Be something original if you want to make your own merc group. That's the opportunity that this game is allowing, freakin' grab hold of the reigns and be something that the authors couldn't envision. Don't tie yourself to old ways of thinking just because you are used to it, this is the REBIRTH of Mechwarrior, you have a chance to be part of it, relish that rather than cut it off at the knees because you have to embrace something new.

That is all.

Edited by monky, 03 May 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[Ravn]

Oh my lord I hope the filter on mech unit names eliminates 1337$p33k.

[Hyperius]

I still don't understand why everyone is so upset about this. I don't even get why people didn't see this coming. I thought it was relatively obvious that we couldn't set up canon units. In fact when I first read the OP I thought "Well yeah obviously I thought we all already knew that". Canon units have a history in the lore that they have to stick to and giving the players the ability to basically form those canon units screws up the Lore. That's why this rule has been implemented in pretty much every MMO based on licensed IP eg. in SWTOR you can't be Luke Skywalker. It sucks but when you think about it all it's going to affect really is the name of your Merc Corps and that's not really that big of a deal when you put it in perspective.

Edited by Hyperius, 03 May 2012 - 09:25 PM.

[Ravn]

Well think of it this way. That name would immediately become a collectors item, and introduce all kinds of illegal account selling. How much do you think the first guy who took the name Luke Skywalker or Grayson Death Carlyle could sell his account for on the basis of that unique name alone?

Edit: NOT ADVOCATING THIS.

Edited by Ravn, 03 May 2012 - 09:34 PM.

[Ramrod]

Really glad to hear this news. Tired as hell of seeing people claim to be one of the canon units. You wanna wear the colours of, for example, the Wolf's Dragoons? Cool, I hope PGI allows you to join them as an NPC faction. Just don't claim to be the one-and-only WDs, or even worse, the Jaime Wolf himself, that's just obnoxious.

IceFyre, on 03 May 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

You have no idea how much more I am suddenly interested in how Hawken turns out. Wonder if the Meteor devs will take such a constraining viewpoint... Probably not since their whole game is "original" IP.

Of course I'll also be able to destructively waste time playing MechWarrior Tactics (admit it, most of you are intrigued by this one also) or Reign of Thunder or even <gasp!> Solaris Assault Tech. Is there a pattern emerging here?

In the meantime I think I'll be spending more time in MWLL where no one gives two hoots what you call your unit, company or faction and less time reading the MWO forums since it's become pretty obvious that the "since we own the IP, they will come and pay anyway" mentality has taken root.

Ice

Cool. Not gonna miss ya.

Edited by Ramrod, 03 May 2012 - 09:50 PM.

[Dickie Mckraut]

[Vincent Vascaul]

MWO has had its first public relations kurfluffle, our little MMO is growing up so fast .

But on a more serious note, first off this does suck for groups like GDL and NWH who I talk with alot on TS3 and honestly run a cool and organised enough outfit that I really wouldnt have much of a problem being in game units. However since the very first Q&A that have said some units would be held back. Now we didn't know it would be all of them and I know that a couple groups recieved missleading information, we all should have at least anticipated this possibility. I do however agree that it would have been better for many if the info had come out sooner but I chalk that up to laywers and sorting out what can and cannot be done with trademarked/copyright material. I am just glad that the Sea Wolves seem to be ok with the aforementioned guidelines.

[Ravn]

I think I could handle just about everything up to amputating my trigger finger to play this game. I'm not going anywhere.

[Werewolf Fetladral]

Lone Wolves vs. New Players vs. Old Players.
Lone Wolves 1 point.
New Players 1 point.
Old Players 0 point.

[Thorn Hallis]

I assume that canon units from past and future times are also restricted?

[Sassori]

wwiiogre, on 03 May 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Enjoyable for all except players that wanted to be part of a known merc group. ALL except. Note I didn't say players that want to run the known merc unit.

Chris

You know, I normally got no beef with you Ogre, but you need to step away from the grape kool-aid kiddo. If your /entire/ grasp of enjoyable is pretending to be part of a single merc unit? Man, keep on pretending, just don't try and expect everyone else to play in your pretend world of make believe.

Statements like: I will not play if I cannot be Black Widow Natasha Kerensky boytoy er merc company, and, now we won't have any fun at all because we get /no enjoyment now/ need to stop. Serious. It's not your IP, it's not your TT game, it's not your RPG. THEY ARE THE GM AND THEY ARE SAYING NO!

Play, or not play, complaining at this point only looks bad on you.

[Victor Morson]

Werewolf Fetladral, on 03 May 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

Cannon Units = NO
Sub-cannon Units = If you change the name around and association. (should be allowed IMO)

I'm rather hoping the Blazing Aces is allowed. We've run that banner in a ton of games, and really, it's not technically canon; almost all of the fiction around the unit (paint schemes, mottos, lance assignments, the majority of history, etc.) we created ourselves entirely. We even redesigned the logo. In fact we picked a unit that wasn't mainline canon because of these reasons, to give us freedom to create our own fiction and creative choices.

If not, we'll have to come up with some creative solution as I'm sure many other units will. Frankly I really, really wish the restricted list was limited to the "big" groups: Northwind Highlanders, Gray Death Legion, Wolf Dragoons, etc, etc. Those are major plot movers and also have dozens of already existent clans that run those names that'd fight over them. I just can't see applying that to some poor group that wants to be Wilson's Hussars.

By contrast there are dozens of canon units that are in no way majorly important to the universe that units have been closely associated to for years and it's a shame to see them locked down.

Christopher Dayson, on 03 May 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

You know, I normally got no beef with you Ogre, but you need to step away from the grape kool-aid kiddo. If your /entire/ grasp of enjoyable is pretending to be part of a single merc unit? Man, keep on pretending, just don't try and expect everyone else to play in your pretend world of make believe.

Statements like: I will not play if I cannot be Black Widow Natasha Kerensky boytoy er merc company, and, now we won't have any fun at all because we get /no enjoyment now/ need to stop. Serious. It's not your IP, it's not your TT game, it's not your RPG. THEY ARE THE GM AND THEY ARE SAYING NO!

You are missing the problem as to why people are upset (and it's something I understand): It has nothing, in most cases, to do with RP elements or loyalty to a specific scripted faction, but rather, loyalty to a Clan name they've had for years. Some of these groups have existed with their names since MechWarrior 2 and kept alive through countless titles over the years.

It's upsetting to basically be told that the clan name you've had for seriously over 12 years suddenly won't be allowed. That's where the opposition comes from. Even in less extreme cases such as 6-8 years that's rough and seriously disheartening.

Edited by Victor Morson, 03 May 2012 - 11:02 PM.

[Hyperius]

Victor Morson, on 03 May 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

By contrast there are dozens of canon units that are in no way majorly important to the universe that units have been closely associated to for years and it's a shame to see them locked down.

They probably locked down all the canon units to make the rule equal to everyone. Why should one group be prevented from naming their merc unit something prominent in the canon while another group is allowed to name theirs something canon that's a bit more obscure? Locking down every canon unit indiscriminately is the easiest way to prevent this inequality.

[Werewolf Fetladral]

Christopher Dayson, on 03 May 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

You know, I normally got no beef with you Ogre, but you need to step away from the grape kool-aid kiddo. If your /entire/ grasp of enjoyable is pretending to be part of a single merc unit? Man, keep on pretending, just don't try and expect everyone else to play in your pretend world of make believe.

Statements like: I will not play if I cannot be Black Widow Natasha Kerensky boytoy er merc company, and, now we won't have any fun at all because we get /no enjoyment now/ need to stop. Serious. It's not your IP, it's not your TT game, it's not your RPG. THEY ARE THE GM AND THEY ARE SAYING NO!

Play, or not play, complaining at this point only looks bad on you.

I can personally say that myself being a 13+year 13th Wolf Guard veteran, I do base the majority of my enjoyment by being part of the unit and not just on the game play. I got the majority of entertainment from my wingman inside the game, then the game itself. Ogre is not ******** the fact that PGI is being over obsessive with their product (imo they probably are).

Also, if anything you look and smell like a NEWBIE and I will be fragging your arse when I get the chance (Just on principle for speaking out of line).

[Sassori]

Werewolf Fetladral, on 03 May 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

I can personally say that myself being a 13+year 13th Wolf Guard veteran, I do base the majority of my enjoyment by being part of the unit and not just on the game play. I got the majority of entertainment from my wingman inside the game, then the game itself. Ogre is not ******** the fact that PGI is being over obsessive with their product (imo they probably are).

Also, if anything you look and smell like a NEWBIE and I will be fragging your arse when I get the chance (Just on principle for speaking out of line).

Bring it random internet toughguy I've been playing BT since before there was mmo's Look forwards to slagging you on the battle field just for thinking that whole 'out of line' comment. Like you've got any more right than anyone else.

[Axen Marik]

So, I haven't taken the time to read the entirety of the forums here, and maybe this has already been suggested, but could a sub field be added to the merc units identities for the purposes of having one of the canon units be "sponsoring" your individual merc command that just happens to be of the same name?

I.E. Northwind Highlanders, stays npc, but merc units can operate independently under their banner, all they have to do is issue a unique unit ID number for the group(s) that want to play as NWH. You'd end up with multiple merc units playing as NWH, but being able to operate separately, much like a large merc unit would anyways, working many contracts simultaneously. This could be balanced by limiting how many different houses they can contract with as individual units or collectively as the NWH whole. NWH(123456) being a NWH unit that played in NBT, NWH(654321) being a MWL NWH unit and so forth.

Edited by Axen Marik, 03 May 2012 - 11:29 PM.