804 replies to this topic

[wwiiogre]

It appears we are going to be pirates and we will be conquering worlds and owning them in game if we are a Merc Corps. So PGI better be careful which worlds they put up on the borders between Houses. Cause once we get on a world we may never leave and make it our home.

Aargh

Chris

[Solis Obscuri]

wwiiogre, on 05 May 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

So does this mean you are giving up Rasalhague? since Rasalhague is a known canon House/Faction? I would love to be able to start from the bottom up in NWH. You get to, Steiner players get to, Davion players get to, Liao players get to, Marik Players get to, Kurita players get to, All players of the invading clans will get to. Mercs players that want that same connection, ooops frac off.

Rasalhague is a Canon name and by your own statement should be untouchable as should any clan or any house.So if we take the current rule applied only to known canon/merc corps names and apply it to the entire universe perhaps some of you would be singing a different tune. Yet, it is only applied to a small section of the community, not all. And it is not fair. All of us would be happy to start in the faction NWH, GDL, WD, KH etc, knowing that if we joined that unit and our friends joined that unit we would still get to play together, meaning in mission without being sorted with random player 213,000. Same as in any modern multiplayer game online that allows drops with friends/squads/etc.

Wait but that is not what PGI said, they said you can't have known merc names, everyone else can or associate with all of the Clans and Houses.

Which in the end is what we are talking about. We do not want control, merely to be able to play for the Merc unit we like.

Christopher Drayson is a House Steiner Faction player, Marowi Rasalhague, Samuel Maxwell Rasalhague, etc, etc, etc. Love the fact you guys specifically say its ok to not let people play known units. So please practice what you preach and be a lone wolf. Otherwise, your argument is intellectually dishonest and your continued posts appear to be antagonistic.

Note I did not single you three out as an attack but as an example and I apologize upfront if this in some way offended you. It is not meant that way but is merely to make a point. A point that continues to be ignored. Some here continue to make the you cannot control x merc unit. That is not the issue. Never was, it is a red herring argument being put forward to say its a good idea. There might have been one or two munchkins running around claiming they are the only Il Kahn of some clan or that they are Grayson Death themselves. But those are rare and fringe.

Thanks all for the wonderful and thoughtful comments.

Chris

Well... there's a big difference between being a member of a canon unit (non-player controlled) in the game, and trying to claim player ownership and control of a canon unit. I'm cool with the idea of creating a few of the major merc corps as "factions" players can join, but I have to admit, I was always a bit uncomfortable with the idea of claiming ownership of a canon unit within a persistent online world that is (at least loosely) expected to follow canonical events within the timeline. Player-run merc units are going to have a fair degree of latitude in managing their own affairs, and will be able to chart their own destinies in MWO, and that sounds, to me, like a lot of fun regardless of what anyone is called. (I hope the house troops get to have as much fun!) I also realize a lot of people picked up canon unit names in the previous MW series, since all the insignias etc were provided for you through the multi-player interface, and folks gravitated into forming their own versions of those units. But MWO is not trying to form an extension from the earlier Activision/Microprose/Microsoft products, and operating as an MMO instead of a 1st-person sim with an afterthought multi-player mode, I can see why they'd want to do quite a few things differently.

As for naming, while I'd say what PGI has told us so far indicates there may be a little ambiguity/interpretation wiggle room, I wouldn't consider the guidance by any means vague. People are allowed to list affiliations/backstory involving canon units in their unit descriptions, but they aren't allowed to share the names on canonical units and/or their sub-regiments. That's really pretty straightforward. I would say it's pretty fair to expect that an attempt to "game" the naming rules is going to be met with rejection. Given that a number of merc corps who have been requiting under the aegis of canonical unit names are already having to go through the inconvenience of renaming themselves, why set up for disappointment a second time? Be the "Northwind Fighting Hagises", or the "Outreach Mounted Auxiliaries" if you must, but I wouldn't expect "Macleod's Highland Fusiliers of Northwind" or "Epsilon Black Wolves" to pass muster with the GMs.

As an aside and question to the devs, I would ask, though: Will there be any pre-registration/pre-approval of merc corps prior to launch? That might help a little bit with winnowing down the allowable names, etc. and setting expectations ahead of time, instead of dealing with a mad rush (and ensuing storm of support tickets from upset folks) at a later date.

Edited by Solis Obscuri, 05 May 2012 - 11:49 AM.

[Sassori]

wwiiogre, on 05 May 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

It appears we are going to be pirates and we will be conquering worlds and owning them in game if we are a Merc Corps. So PGI better be careful which worlds they put up on the borders between Houses. Cause once we get on a world we may never leave and make it our home.

Aargh

Chris

LOL I think there will be contracts in game, so that Mercenaries fight for the major factions

At least I hope there's contracts... if there's not, I am so making a pirate 'corp'.

[Nighthound]

Ok thanks for the clarification. I won't repeat myself and my ideas and my opinons again, I stated them many times, for now i will go to sleep and see if, or rather when the Devs will answer our questions.

So long, and sleep well all of you

[wwiiogre]

nothing new to see here, move along

Chris

[Thorn Hallis]

Eagle_HH, on 05 May 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

So one that wants to roleplay for House Davion will not be allowed to join a Guild/Merc Corp Unit?

Why would you need anything more then a friendslist when joining a faction? A "guild" wouldn't get anything within a faction, all rewards are player-exclusive (as far as we know).

Christopher Dayson, on 05 May 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

As for your units: Make a new Unit, only work for one faction. Presto, new faction unit I guess.

Well no, that wont work, as merc and faction play are different (again, as far as we know).

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 05 May 2012 - 02:06 PM.

[3Xtr3m3]

The thing that intrigues me about this is the possibilities of new names and units.

When FASA needed an "Alien Invasion", They were forced to come up with new names, new military structures, even new names for leaders. They did a neat job of it inventing the Clans.

When someone a few decades back wanted to form new league of football in places the National Football Conference did not want to form teams, The came up with the Americn Football Conference, both merged into the NFl we have today.

Now here we are in the same boat. House Units of fame off limits as a Player Controlled Unit, Same with Clans, when they get here, and also the more famous Merc Units are off limits as PCF's.

I am rooting for the person out there with the vision to find a new name, a new structure, new logos, new paint schemes...A New Standard. Who will hold it up, and call people to follow him and help him create a legacy that will outshine anything that has come before it.

Who will it be? I don't know. Maybe a Mercenary unit out of the Taurian Concordant, who organizes his units into Tribes. Maybe his units will be Units of three, A triangle instead of IS Lances or Clanner Stars.
The point is. Here is this broad beautiful painting the world has been dabbling on for Decades, And off in one corner is the space that maybe someone here will fill with something new, something never seen before, something we will once again feel the joy of filling in that space with thrilling tales of wins being pulled out of almost certain losses. Of heroes rising from obscurity to stand in the same Company as Allard, Kell, Wolf, Mcleod, and on, and on, and on.



Don't You Dare Touch That Dial...

[guardian wolf]

Christopher Dayson, on 05 May 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

Here we go again...

Fair is Fair. Everyone needs to have the exact same opportunity to play their favorite. For some, that's a House, For other's that's a Bandit Kingdom, still others it's a small republic, or a Mercenary company.

Personally if it were an option I'd have picked Magistracy of Canopus or to be a pirate. Those weren't options so I went with a fall back (Almost went with Liao but decided against it).

Unfortunately when dealing with a mercenary company you are dealing with a group of people who are getting together and those people have the power to tell other people: No!

No matter how far I advance in House Steiner, I'll never be Archon, Even if I was, I'd never have the ability to say to /anyone/ 'No, you cannot play House Steiner.'.

A Mercenary Company however /CAN/ tell people No. However, once you start being affiliated with canon forces and gain the ability to tell people 'No' you start tromping on their ability to have fun.

That's simply not fair.

I /want/ the major merc companies to be a faction just like any of the Houses, even if it does break lore a bit if there's 10,000 wolf dragoons in game. I want everyone to be able to play what they want. I don't want someone to be able to with hold something by going:

Nyah-nyah I was here first!

Which could happen.

Tell you what, I'll stop associating with my house, when /your/ branch of the NWHL start accepting /everyone/ and treat /everyone/ the same. Go on, go invite Chuckie. Reduce everyone to the same rank until they earn it in game. Make them pug it up just like everyone in a House will have to do.

It's not going to happen. You want to have an exclusive group. Claim it's 'part' of the NWHL all you want, it's still an exclusive group. It excludes people. More power on you, but going to war with the Dev's isn't helping, and it's wrong to do.

Long and the short is: It's not Fair to /everyone/ who wants to be 'associated' with any faction if there are parts of it going 'No'. It's got to be all or nothing to be fair.

Christopher Dayson, on 05 May 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Why would you not be able to delve into the 'Lore' as a new Mercenary Company? Last I knew Mercenary Companies sorta... worked for other people. That's what made them Mercenaries. You'll sign on with a faction, and go fight for them, therefor, you have access to all the same 'lore' as everyone else...

As for your units: Make a new Unit, only work for one faction. Presto, new faction unit I guess.

I'm pretty sure that guilds are mercenary companies, yes. I could be wrong, they haven't given us full disclosure as to how it's going to be yet.

@Ogre:

No, it's exclusive, period. You cannot have 'inclusive in game' and 'exclusive' out of game. You're either inclusive (Accepting all) or exclusive (accepting some). It doesn't matter what reason you guys had for that fracas with Chuckie, I didn't pay a lot of attention to it. As a Mercenary Company you guys were well within your rights to tell anyone to **** off that you felt like.

The problem is that right now, Northwind Highlanders /isn't/ a 'Faction'. It is a Canon Mercenary Company. A popular one, which people outside of your group may wish to be. Maybe you build up a big name, and people want to /be/ in the 2nd Kearny Regulars or whichever if it were a /faction/ they could do so by joining the northwind highlanders, and working their way up to get into the unit.

As far as we know, nobody is being told they can't play with their friends. Nobody is trying to exclude your mercenary company from playing together, or with others that your company is hired by. All anyone is being told is that mercenary companies have to be original.

I've seen you dance around this issue over and over again, and what it seems to be is this:

You want to play a Northwind Highlander. Period.

I want to play a Pirate and make a Pirate Band and conquer worlds in the periphery with my friends. We're both in the same boat right now, but at least you might be able to have northwind highlanders as a faction in the future.

Okay Chris, I you've got me to come out, your houses, have the availability that has been confirmed, you also get serve said house in a PUG manner which is why you chose that house. Even the FRR guys are forming their own merc unit for the FRR, and as such will be getting to use that merc unit. You want to accuse us of trying to be "exclusive"? This is because of the fact that we are actually a bit dedicated to our units, and their preformed command structure. Chris, I joined the WD in November with the intention of being a contributing member of that Merc unit, we all did. We didn't want to drop with somebody who wasn't going to be on and off, a random player. And we did this so that way, WE, yes WE, wouldn't get burned in a drop, because a guy dropped out, or didn't show. If I can't count on someone, or my CO can't count on them, then they had better get to changing our minds, or just resign. It's all fun when you have an actual unit that trains, prepares, and fights like a team. THAT'S WHY WE STARTED IT AND COMMITTED... that was why I committed several years ago when my step brother offered me a spot in the Hell Jumpers Company. That is why to this very day, if I'm going to be playing a WD unit, I will make damn sure that when we have meetings, that people get there, and that training drops are attended, so that way, we are on the mark, and organized. I'm sorry if I sound pissed Chris, but I am, enraged, by the fact that you claim that we are "exclusive", we have standards, either meet them, or just don't show up.

[Thorn Hallis]

guardian wolf, on 05 May 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

snip

Just for clarification - did you expected merc fights to be 4v4 or 8v8?

[Volthorne]

guardian wolf, on 05 May 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

-snip-

Take a fragging chill pill, man, you're getting too worked up. "Shape up to our standards or GTFO" is essentially all I'm getting from you about your unit right now. If it was real life, I'd say that's fine, it's expected, because that's how real life works (hell, I'd jump on your bandwagon). This is a ******* VIDEO GAME. What right do you have to say someone may or may not join your unit, given no reasonable grounds to reject them? If you applied to join a unit (your dream/favourite unit), yet weren't able to meet every single one of their 20 rigid specifications/standards (which have no reason to be so rigid in the first place), and they denied you entrance, you'd be pretty sad. Ease up a bit, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar (supposedly).

Christopher Dayson, on 05 May 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

Tell you what, I'll stop associating with my house, when /your/ branch of the NWHL start accepting /everyone/ and treat /everyone/ the same. Go on, go invite Chuckie. Reduce everyone to the same rank until they earn it in game. Make them pug it up just like everyone in a House will have to do.

Christopher, I understand where you're coming from. Equality for all, and such, right? I'm there, provided the ones requesting equality don't make unreasonable demands. We at (formerly NWH, insert new name here) try to be as inclusive as possible. Submit an application, you'll be accepted (to date, Chuckie is the only one who hasn't gotten in, but he withdrew his application). Your belief that we wrongfully refused Chuckie admission, I'm sorry to say, is misplaced (he refused to follow the near non-existant rules (read: only three; 1] Don't be disrespectful, 2] Be responsible 3] Don't demand things you haven't earned)). I can PM you the whole story if you'd like, for clarity/confirmation. This goes hand-in-hand with my reply to guardian wolf.

As a side not to Cristopher: We're going to go by our forum ranks because in-game ranks won't accurately represent the contributions of each of our members. People who play a LOT (let's say 30 hours a week) will obviously rank higher in-game, but they might not contribute much out-of-game. Would it be fair to say that because they play more, they get a better rank than someone who can play maybe only 3 hours a week, and dedicates each of those 3 hours improving/contributing to the (insert new name for formerly NWH) outside of MW:O?

This is all just food for thought. I thank both of you for listening to my attempt to calm the shitstorm of accusation and counter-accusations.

[Sassori]

guardian wolf, on 05 May 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

*snip*

. I'm sorry if I sound pissed Chris, but I am, enraged, by the fact that you claim that we are "exclusive", we have standards, either meet them, or just don't show up.

Way to miss the /entire/ point. *golfclaps*

I will try to explain again:

I have no problem with Guilds/Companies/Whatever you want to call them. More power to those who make them. I want people to make Mercenary Companies, I want them to have fun and be a success.

What I don't want them to be is exclusion based. If Players A & B both love the Wolf's Dragoons, have played them in TT, Leagues, whatever. Maybe they haven't played them before, doesn't matter. If both those players love the Wolf's Dragoons then they should both have the opportunity to play them equally.

That means they need to be /INCLUSIVE/.

When they're in the hands of players, they are not /INCLUSIVE/. They are /EXCLUSIVE/. They exclude others for whatever reason.

I've got no problem with (Player Made) Mercenary Groups being exclusive, if I make one, I will invite people I enjoy playing with and have fun with, I won't invite people I dislike. That's simply the way groups work.

However, Player A /claiming/ the Wolf's Dragoons before Player B and then /excludes/ player B for any reason then that's not fair. The established factions and organizations of the IP should /not/ be exclusive. Everyone should have an equal right to play in that faction/organization.

Or in whatever case, an equal inability to not play in that faction/organization.

Am I upset I can't be from my favorite faction? Sure. Is it nerd rage worthy? No. Move on.

I don't know what else I can say about fairness to make people understand that this was the only fair route PGI could take. Sometimes we don't get what we want.

EDIT:

@ Volthorne:

The business between you and chuckie is besides the point. The point is that you have an application process, therefor are not inclusive. Inclusive takes anyone who wants, not just those who agree with you. I'm not wrong about anything, I don't care /why/ you excluded Chuckie, you were within your rights to do so, but you /did/ exclude him, thus making your organization exclusive in nature. Something an in game faction cannot be.

Edited by Christopher Dayson, 05 May 2012 - 04:13 PM.

[Marowi]

Thorn Hallis, on 05 May 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Why would you need anything more then a friendslist when joining a faction?

I think this is a great point that answers the "we want to choose who we drop with" concern; players don't have to be in control of anything regarding the faction or the unit to make this happen. Just give people the option to create drop teams--that was essentially the functionality that MW4M had.

Christopher Dayson, on 05 May 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

The point is that you have an application process, therefor are not inclusive.

I also think this is quite right; the presence of any application criteria, whatsoever, makes the organization necessarily inclusive--especially if the evaluation of those criteria is subjective. Putting such discretion in the hands of a player is going to be unacceptable for canon factions or units, period. I think most of us agree that it would be better not to have join-able "famous" mercenary units at all than to put them in the hands of a tiny, but animated following. The question this raises is which famous mercenary units should be join-able? And should there be a hierarchy (as has been indicated regarding the house units)? How would that be decided? Someone earlier said that the mercs have a point if they can't create their version of the NWH and can't join a non-PC NWH; but what if implementation of that fix is simply more trouble than it's worth?

[Volthorne]

Christopher Dayson, on 05 May 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

@ Volthorne:

The business between you and chuckie is besides the point. The point is that you have an application process, therefor are not inclusive. Inclusive takes anyone who wants, not just those who agree with you. I'm not wrong about anything, I don't care /why/ you excluded Chuckie, you were within your rights to do so, but you /did/ exclude him, thus making your organization exclusive in nature. Something an in game faction cannot be.

The application process is more ceremonial than anything else. If you graduate from high school, but don't go to the ceremony, do you still graduate? AFAIK, pulling a Chuckie is the only way you won't get in, and those kinds of people only want what's best for them, generally not giving two ***** either way about the rest of the unit.

Edited by Volthorne, 05 May 2012 - 04:43 PM.

[Sassori]

Volthorne, on 05 May 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

The application process is more ceremonial than anything else. If you graduate from high school, but don't go to the ceremony, do you still graduate? AFAIK, pulling a Chuckie is the only way you won't get in, and those kinds of people only want what's best for them, generally not giving two ***** either way about the rest of the unit.

Doesn't matter, ceremonial or not, it's /not/ inclusive. The standards might be low, they might be high, I don't know. I just know that if the standard is other than download the client and log into the game then unless it's a private organization that should be all that's necessary. Any IP organization needs to be either that inclusive (Aka not player ran at all) or not available otherwise it's not fair.

Again: I was using Chuckie as an example, I could really care less about the particulars (No offense to you, the Highlanders, or Chuckie). It just proved my point.

[Volthorne]

Christopher Dayson, on 05 May 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

I just know that if the standard is other than download the client and log into the game then unless it's a private organization that should be all that's necessary.

By all means, you can do this. You can contribute squat out of the game, and still be a part of our unit. You just won't progress more than halfway through the ranks. The reason is because ranks depend on the participation effort in both halves.

Unfortunately to be recognized, you still need to submit an application (again, it's ceremonial, and provides some basic info on you. You wouldn't let a random guy into your house without learning a bit about him, would you?).

[Listless Nomad]

Why not just make "mercenary" a faction and have all the merc units be joinable units exactly the same way houses are set up. That way - there would be basically two divisions. Player run and npc. That everyone is truly equal - and mercs aren't left out in the cold. Additionally, you wouldn't need each big merc unit to be a separate faction. Granted it would need work but it's just a suggestion.

[Carl Wrede]

Listless Nomad, on 05 May 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Why not just make "mercenary" a faction and have all the merc units be joinable units exactly the same way houses are set up. That way - there would be basically two divisions. Player run and npc. That everyone is truly equal - and mercs aren't left out in the cold. Additionally, you wouldn't need each big merc unit to be a separate faction. Granted it would need work but it's just a suggestion.

There has been many suggestions already along these lines, either making famous mercs their own faction or including them in the houses. The developers have even said that they will consider this but i would expect that this will take some time so dont hold your breath

[wwiiogre]

Yes Listless Nomad, Yes;

If we want to setup a private club that includes are friends in MWO but is separate from MWO and we recruit here for roleplayers and team players to join us as friends and then we all join NWH faction and then drop with each other. That would be private, just like if you in House Steiner drop with your friends you call from your cell phone or setup on skype or IRC, etc. Because you called your friend or your brother and you two dropped together is that EXCLUSIVE? No that is friends playing a game together because they like to.

Note that is how most friend lists and drop lists work. I could give a rat's arse about what my rank is in the NWH faction in MWO. I could care less what your rank is in House Steiner. But I do care who I have to drop with and when possible I would like to drop with friends. We want to include new players and people we don't know to join our little offline club and we have been so Exclusive that only one person who wanted in didn't get in. Only because he withdrew his application cause he didn't get to be the big CHEESE just because he showed up saying "NI". Love you Chuckie, wish you well.

We are not going to boss around anyone in the NWH faction if they ever make one, we will attempt to play with all of them and welcome them to our own version of NWH offsite of MWO. If they don't like what we have, great make your own club, share it with friends all is good. We have no stake in how NWH is run on MWO, we just want to wear a patch. Roleplay on our own site (note I am not one of the roleplayers on our site, but I appreciate giving others that do enjoy it the chance to do so) is not mandatory nor is it expected. Neither is wearing a kilt or speaking with a Scottish accent. The only thing we expect is be professional and mature, don't just take, help out, earn what you want. If you work hard it will be recognized by everyone and rewarded and praised.

We welcome anyone if they don't like what is going on, go your own way. We are not part of MWO, merely people who have met here on MWO that share some of the same passions and ideas. The most important of which is playing in mechs with other people we like, can trust to do their job and also have fun without being fbomb throwing, temper tantrum rage quitting kids. Note we have ages from 12-60+ in our group. All are getting along, all are helpful. Some are quiet, some are not. All have been respectful of each other. We have members that live on many different continents, speak different languages and I am sure have different political and religious thoughts. We leave that at the door. We are together to play a game, in a way we would like to play it.

Sorry if we aren't Politically Correct enough for you. I am pretty sure if I joined House Steiner right now and said on my entry app oh by the way I get to be Colonel so and so and I get control of x Regiment. I would be told by PGI and the House Steiner players to take a flying leap. I might even be told that you are private x, go earn your rank by how you play and contribute. Ooops isn't that exactly what we did to a single player? yes, yes it is.

While we have never told PGI that we are the NWH, we have not said no one else can ever be NWH but us and we get full control over NWH. In fact we have repeatedly stated ad nauseum that we believe the exact opposite. We merely want the chance to be part of NWH. Or if we cannot do that name our unit so it is associated with Northwind or the Highlanders of Northwind. But we have not only been told no, but don't even think about naming your group anything even close or even attempting to closely resemble or associate yourself with the unit or some CSR will ixnay it, ban it or change your name, with or without the permission of the Co Founder of the Company since by his own words he will have no say over what his employee does. Ok I know Bryan has since come back and said just hold on and relax. I know the Mods have begged us to not respond to the repeated troll attacks on this topic and many others or to respond to the insults made by members here in IRC channels or over TS3 and other voips.

But really guys, stop using arguments that really do not apply. All we want is the equal chance that all other player types of this game are getting. Namely to associate with a known Faction/House/Merc/Clan group in canon/lore/fiction. Not control, not keep others from becoming associated with or joining, but joining, working our way up, with the chance to drop with our friends who also join that faction and work their way up as well.

Our offsite club has no bearing on this, none, nothing to do with MWO, not ruled by, run by, governed by and in no way connected to MWO, PGI, IGP, CATALYST, etc, etc, the Canadian Government or any Government or any player on this forum or any other that thinks they can control someone elses private life or who they decide to be friends with or chat with or have fun with. Listen to yourselves, Are you the Fun NAZIS given power over who plays together, who chats together, who visits which website. The whole you are exclusive argument would only apply if we actually controlled THE NORTHWIND HIGHLANDERS, but we don't, and we didn't want to, nor will we ever. So this whole red herring argument about exclusivity is merely trolling for an argument that has no basis or place in this debate. PERIOD!

So once again wall of text, sorry all. Please forgive me mods. But eventually after getting hit with bricks that are not part of the wall that is being built I simply need to lob them aside. Lookout

Chris

[Marowi]

I don't think the exclusivity argument can be considered "trolling" or illegitimate at all. I think the right of players to join factions they are interested in without having other players--especially those empowered by an offline, private social network that they may or may not be granted access to--tell them what to do or how to behave is a legitimate concern. At least as legitimate as the desire to join a canon faction that you like in the first place. You mentioned encouraging other people in a hypothetical NWH in-game faction to join your club; what if your club becomes the dominant social force in that faction? I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with that happening in any faction, and I think that's a very complicated question. But since I think you agree that an offline, private organization shouldn't have control over canon factions or units, I don't think you're very far off from the consensus. I apologize, but I would appreciate it if you could more clearly elaborate on what you feel is so offensive to you, in the hope that we could continue discussing (as I thought we were) more civilly.

Edited by Marowi, 05 May 2012 - 07:01 PM.

[Volthorne]

I think Chris (wiiogre) is just bloody fed up with every slamming on our (formerly named NWH, insert new name here) group, and maybe or maybe not the other large canon unit groups too. Everyone on the forum should be sighing with tiredness at every new post in this topic that slams one group or another for whatever reason.

EDIT: Looks like he's gone a bit loopy. Must be all the heat from the firepit where (formerly GDL) and (formerly 1RR) are attempting to roast effigies of Bryan. Please stand by while we deploy the medics.

To think this all started by one person posting "What the hell is up with these 8 different Clan Wolfs, and why is every clan "Khan" challenging every other clan for blood-names, blah blah blah". I guess that's all it takes for a bunch of people to bandwagon and then wildly speculate enough to catch the eye of the Devs.

Edited by Volthorne, 05 May 2012 - 07:38 PM.