804 replies to this topic

[Tyr Gunn]

Marowi, on 06 May 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Tyr: I think you have unfairly interpreted the direct, but reasonable comments of others to be attacks against your organization. You should not interpret this, also, to be an "attack", as it is my sincere impression and I equally sincerely encourage you to relax. At the moment, you are the only party that seems to be behaving out of line. (Your "opponents" in this thread are busy clarifying and apologizing, for Heaven's sake! Meanwhile you're saying "Come at me with flames! I'll put the mods to work! I don't [expletive] care!" How can this do anything but discredit you and your organization?)

Dude! So far I am not creative and/or unimaginative. Im stupid for not seeing it coming. Or I'm trying to cheat the system for seeking clarification. To name a few things. No, you're totally right, I should't take that personally. Those are all obviously constructive and helpful critiques.

I'm also some kind of horrible monster for finally standing up and saying NO MORE! Ok. Maybe I should take a step back, because THAT is crazy talk.

[guardian wolf]

Christopher Dayson, on 05 May 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Way to miss the /entire/ point. *golfclaps*

I will try to explain again:

I have no problem with Guilds/Companies/Whatever you want to call them. More power to those who make them. I want people to make Mercenary Companies, I want them to have fun and be a success.

What I don't want them to be is exclusion based. If Players A & B both love the Wolf's Dragoons, have played them in TT, Leagues, whatever. Maybe they haven't played them before, doesn't matter. If both those players love the Wolf's Dragoons then they should both have the opportunity to play them equally.

That means they need to be /INCLUSIVE/.

When they're in the hands of players, they are not /INCLUSIVE/. They are /EXCLUSIVE/. They exclude others for whatever reason.

I've got no problem with (Player Made) Mercenary Groups being exclusive, if I make one, I will invite people I enjoy playing with and have fun with, I won't invite people I dislike. That's simply the way groups work.

However, Player A /claiming/ the Wolf's Dragoons before Player B and then /excludes/ player B for any reason then that's not fair. The established factions and organizations of the IP should /not/ be exclusive. Everyone should have an equal right to play in that faction/organization.

Or in whatever case, an equal inability to not play in that faction/organization.

Am I upset I can't be from my favorite faction? Sure. Is it nerd rage worthy? No. Move on.

I don't know what else I can say about fairness to make people understand that this was the only fair route PGI could take. Sometimes we don't get what we want.

Our unit inside the faction has a set of meetable standards that anyone can meet, they are reasonable, we just don't want someone becoming a member just to be an *******, and for the badge and try to get himself some publicity. We are a unit because of the fact that we are going to be fighting with each other, the reason we signed up, is so that way we could be a part of a dedicated unit. WE ARE BY NO MEANS, EXCLUSIVE... if you would actually take the time to get to understand our application process, we are consistent, and if someone wants to join, let them, but if they join, and then be an *******, claiming command of certain units, due to "past" experience, and not because of the fact that a) you founded the unit, have actually talked to the COs, and they agree that you should be in command due to experience that they have seen, and just whining saying that you should be having your own command, is not acceptable. Neither is insubordination, unless with a good reason. We have standards, just like anyone else, just like your in game units, so quit whining about them.

Volthorne, on 05 May 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Take a fragging chill pill, man, you're getting too worked up. "Shape up to our standards or GTFO" is essentially all I'm getting from you about your unit right now. If it was real life, I'd say that's fine, it's expected, because that's how real life works (hell, I'd jump on your bandwagon). This is a ******* VIDEO GAME. What right do you have to say someone may or may not join your unit, given no reasonable grounds to reject them? If you applied to join a unit (your dream/favourite unit), yet weren't able to meet every single one of their 20 rigid specifications/standards (which have no reason to be so rigid in the first place), and they denied you entrance, you'd be pretty sad. Ease up a bit, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar (supposedly).

Our system isn't that rigid, it's like Christianity (now if someone wants to get into a religious argument, by all means, do it now, I'm Christian, and proud of it), all we ask is that you act the part, listen to your COs, and be a regular on the forums, and in game.

[Marowi]

Additionally, it wasn't "silly" to suggest that you could have made your points while also leaving NWH (the organization) out of it. I wasn't privy to your conversations with the mods, but I imagine this is what they meant. Obviously, that doesn't mean refraining from using NWH (the name) as an example, but it does mean not making the discussion about NWH (the organization). No one in this thread seems to be making it about that.

Which brings me to my next point: Volthorne: I want to point out that I'm only addressing what's being said in this thread. If you guys are having trouble outside this thread, then why don't you go vent there, or not at all, and not here? Do you see how someone who only pays attention to the direct back-and-forth within this thread might be confused or offended by your conduct?

Tyr, I'm not going to respond to you until you stop inappropriately trying to escalate this discussion. We've already been called out by a mod to be civil. I've worked very hard to keep a level head, and I'd appreciate the same from you.

Edited by Marowi, 06 May 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[Sassori]

guardian wolf, on 06 May 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

*snip*

WE ARE BY NO MEANS, EXCLUSIVE... if you would actually take the time to get to understand our application process, we are consistent, and if someone wants to join, let them, but if they join, and then be an *******, claiming command of certain units, due to "past" experience, and not because of the fact that a) you founded the unit, have actually talked to the COs, and they agree that you should be in command due to experience that they have seen, and just whining saying that you should be having your own command, is not acceptable. Neither is insubordination, unless with a good reason. We have standards, just like anyone else, just like your in game units, so quit whining about them.

*snip*

You have an application process. You have the ability to kick people out of the unit. You demand that people follow their 'CO's' commands. CO's who are there by virtue of being there first or somehow having 'earned' them. You have standards.

These /all/ make you Exclusive.
Period.
Quit whining about being exclusive. That is a /good/ thing for organization and success, it is /not/ a good thing to force one Canonical IC organization to be more restrictive than another canonical IC organization, and most definitely not under complete control of the players.

Say I earn myself the rank of Colonel in the Swords of Light Kurita regiment for example. Sure I have earned that position through my in game actions, but, I can't /stop/ anyone else from doing the same, or even surpassing my rank. I also cannot /demand/ people in the Swords of Light listen to me and kick them out of the Swords of Light for not doing so. Why? Because I don't control it, the dev's do, it's not mine.

The moment you can deny anyone the ability to be in the unit/organization it's exclusive. Doesn't matter if it's justified or not, it's exclusive. Exclusive isn't bad, it just shouldn't be applied to a canonical mercenary unit anymore than it should be applied to a canonical House Faction. It's an all or nothing thing. At this point the devs have chosen nothing.

[Nakir]

I see all you too agitated and restless.I close this topic.....hoping to not see more skirmishes of this kind.Try to calm down a bit your spirits please!