76 replies to this topic

[Arcadinal]

Khobai, on 25 November 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

No. Friendly Fire is the funnest part of the game. Because if I dont like a teammate I can just kill them.

#1 reason to get rid of FF, this guy.

Jager Wolf, on 25 November 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

If more was required there could be an xp penalty based on points of damage done added in and the offending player could be penalized the cost of the repairs instead of the person getting hit. This could also work to curb intentional team killing if the penalties were steep enough to put a team killer in the poor house. I imagine they would get sick of using trial mechs after a while. At the very least it would require them to play as a team member so they could afford to repair/rearm mechs.

Hah! Clearly you sir, have never played EVE Online, and thus have an unrealistically optimistic view of how this sort of thing works out. That game has scads of players who spend 90+% of their time flying around in ultra-cheap ships and ganking random folks for little to no proffit, just to make them cry. Tis called griefing and trust me, they don't get sick of it.

[Farix]

Necroposting much?

[Kraven Kor]

Find every NO.JPG on the internet, and imagine them all here, in sequence.

Lasers and Missiles and Autocannons do not magically bounce off of friendly targets.

Actually, I could see missiles having IFF and not arming on friendly targets, but that would be a bit complex for LRM mechanics.

Friendly Fire is essential to any game that features guns, period.

If a game does not have friendly fire, I do not play it, because it is unrealistic and dumb - to me. You are welcome to it.

And if they even add an OPTION for a game mode without friendly fire, I will be very, very sad at the current state and future of humanity as a whole

[Kraven Kor]

Arcadinal, on 25 November 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

#1 reason to get rid of FF, this guy.

No, that is the #1 reason to get rid of that guy.

And I don't see what the big deal is. Maybe once or twice a week I see anything more than accidental friendly fire. And it is usually some jerk who gets a little graze from a noob and turns around and obliterates them and then they ***** and moan in chat and we all make fun of them and try to win even short-handed

[Blue Footed Booby]

Way back in the day, I used to play a lot of Rainbow Six 3 on the original xbox. Back then there was no matchmaking; everything was the "host game"/"join existing game" system. The host (and only the host) could change settings like whether friendly fire is enabled. Sometimes hosts would mess with people by changing settings without telling anyone. When FF is off, people used grenades to open doors--you throw it at the door when you're a few steps away, it explodes right as you get there, you go through without having to stop to open anything. Quietly switching FF from off to on would frequently cause entire teams to wipe themselves out five seconds into a match.

The lesson here is that people adapt to the rules of the game. When FF is enabled you get the occasional TKer and a whole bunch of low level accidental damage, but when it's off everyone changes their play style in ways that frequently aren't intended or even anticipated by the developers. It's not a change that should be made lightly.

Disabling FF has so many implications on how the game is played at a fundamental level--from group formations to target selection--that I find it a little disheartening that so many replies in this thread go the "put on your big boy pants you carebear" route. Even setting aside the fact that real toughguys/girls typically don't need to go around proclaiming their toughness, it misses the point so badly.

Edited by Blue Footed Booby, 11 July 2013 - 08:29 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

Blue Footed Booby, on 11 July 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Way back in the day, I used to play a lot of Rainbow Six 3 on the original xbox. Back then there was no matchmaking; everything was the "host game"/"join existing game" system. The host (and only the host) could change settings like whether friendly fire is enabled. Sometimes hosts would mess with people by changing settings without telling anyone. When FF is off, people used grenades to open doors--you throw it at the door when you're a few steps away, it explodes right as you get there, you go through without having to stop to open anything. Quietly switching FF from off to on would frequently cause entire teams to wipe themselves out five seconds into a match.

The lesson here is that people adapt to the rules of the game. When FF is enabled you get the occasional TKer and a whole bunch of low level accidental damage, but when it's off everyone changes their play style in ways that frequently aren't intended or even anticipated by the developers. It's not a change that should be made lightly.

Disabling FF has so many implications on how the game is played at a fundamental level--from group formations to target selection--that I find it a little disheartening that so many replies in this thread go the "put on your big boy pants you carebear" route. Even setting aside the fact that real toughguys/girls typically don't need to go around proclaiming their toughness, it misses the point so badly.

For the record, my responses have nothing to do with being tough (I'm not), awesome (I'm terrible) or any of that.

It has to do with EXACTLY what you state - the fundamental changes to gameplay.

Don't do it.

[Stardancer01]

Should weaponry converge on friendly mechs?
Should a big blue (X) appear like MW4, when pointing weapons at a friendly mech?

Would be nice (also with preference to switch off, so you can see the nice paint jobs)

[Kraven Kor]

Stardancer01, on 11 July 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Should weaponry converge on friendly mechs?
Should a big blue (X) appear like MW4, when pointing weapons at a friendly mech?

Would be nice (also with preference to switch off, so you can see the nice paint jobs)

I would be OK with an IFF indicator that let you KNOW you were firing on / might be firing on friendly units.

But if your laser beam or shell or missile impacts a friendly mech, it takes damage, because this game NEEDS to be realistic in at least that regard.

Star Trek you can modulate your shields so that friendly phasers don't hurt you. In Battletech, your weapons work just as well on foes as they do your friends. So check your fire

[Mackman]

Holy necro, batman! (PS: thread is a year and a half old)

[blinkin]

NO! this game has already been dumbed down enough. we are just now starting to get back into the trend of ADDING realism to the game instead of removing it.

it is not that difficult to let go of the trigger once in a while, and if you pay a little attention you quickly realize that walking into the streams of tracers and the sustained beams of light is A BAD IDEA.

[Lord of All]

Tamerathon, on 12 November 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

Hear me out on this one:
...

NO

[Haradim]

I am ambivalent about whether FF exists or not, but I do think if it does there needs to be a robust way to track who caused it to you, how much damage was done, and so forth, for reporting purposes (or to elect to forgive).

[mistformsquirrel]

Friendly Fire is only a problem in two circumstances:

1) Deliberate idiocy - in which case the person ought to be banned as it's doubtful their stupidity only manifests in this form.

2) Fog of War making it difficult to determine friend from foe in a skirmish... that's OK, that's kind of why friendly fire is on to begin with.

World of Tanks I feel does a good job at dealing with teamkillers to be honest - you kill enough teammates (or shoot someone in spawn), you turn blue and can be freely shot by your teammates for xp and credits just as if you were an enemy.

In my 5500+ battles in WoT I have never, ever turned blue, and I've accidently killed a few teammates in my time* However I've seen plenty of jackasses get what's coming to them through this system, and it at least allows your team to get a little reward for having to put up with someone's idiocy.

Another thing that I think would help in this regard is 12v12 mode. The more machines on the battlefield, the less value is placed on a single machine - so if someone decides to be a jerk, you're at less of a disadvantage than you are if someone's jerktacular in an 8v8 scenario.

Combine both and I feel you've got a pretty good handle on teamkilling and friendly fire without removing it from the game.

*Mostly when playing artillery... I always feel bad about it, the poor scout is lighting up targets for me and then *boom* the shell goes over the intended target and hits my scout instead. Oops.

[Redwood Elf]

Instead of getting rid of FF, how about making a mech's arm weapons "home in" (within their normal range of motion) on whatever target is locked (since you can only lock enemy mechs, this would reduce FF accidents a bit (unless someone is directly between your mech and your target) as well as giving players who aren't that good at poinpoint targetting (Like myself, gimme a break, I'm pushing 50 and can't target a single pixel as fast as I used to, not to mention camera shake, which is 100% miss if I'm trying to aim while getting shot at - mechs are SUPPOSED to have at least minimal targetting computers, aren't they? Let the teenagers turn autotargetting off, and make autotargetting hit random areas on the mech instead of being able to automatically aim at legs or whatever)

[Inkarnus]

and put back TEAM KILL to -100.000 Cbills like it was in CB
and introduce TEAM DAMAGE always netting you -10.000 CB
solved

[blinkin]

Inkarnus, on 12 July 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

and put back TEAM KILL to -100.000 Cbills like it was in CB
and introduce TEAM DAMAGE always netting you -10.000 CB
solved

if we ever manage to get back repair and rearm i would just have players pay directly for any damage they caused to friendlies. that would put a stop to it pretty damned quick.

[Caseck]

Tamerathon, on 12 November 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

Hear me out on this one:

I've seen and observed a lot of issues with Friendly Fire both ingame and on these forums, with people suggesting everything from banning Team Killers to people accidently being killed during combat. I think that the easiest way to deal with all of these issues is to simply turn Friendly Fire off.

Cons:
1) It's not "Mechwarrior" as most people know it, and detracts from the realism of the game.

2) This space reserved for the discussion

Pros:

1) Removes the necessity of long lines of code dealing with how to handle friendly fire/team killings, as well as the dilemma of having to seperate out true FF incidents (which shouldn't necessarily be punished) from the team killing incidents by trigger happy new players and or griefers.

2) Promotes more intensive firefights. Yes, you can fire your missles into the back of your friendly Atlas while hiding behind him, but all you're doing is wasting ammo. Now, instead of good players holding fire because their lasers will carve out the teammate in front of them, they'll be encouraged to engage.

3) Doesn't punish the players. Anytime you can set the game so that the players see a positive effect instead of a negative one, they'll enjoy it more.

Shooters are penalized for shooting their buddies.

Lesson: Don't shoot your buddies.