153 replies to this topic

[Grotoiler]

I'm at work right now so I had to TL;DR alot of this thread...

My two cents on the matter though are this:

It's called MechWARRIOR, NOT Mechcoward. Even if you have to lumber agound your enemy's feet with ZERO weapons, that means that your badly beaten up scout buddy could run to cap, or take someone down. The enemy will be too busy lighting up your "free c-bills" carcass to care what's happening around them...

[Hammerhai]

On a historical note mercenaries are usually less dependable than elite soldiers because - guess what - they fight for the money. They will even simply withdraw from the field of battle if no pay is forthcoming. So if you RP a mercenary then you will usually choose the easier option.
On the other hand, that Kurita samurai would choose death before dishonour. An Amber cliffs Ninja on the other hand would simply fade away, to fight another day. So if someone chooses to RP that, I have no problem with it.

But I REALLY like the stories coming out of this. Some good stuff. Gaming moments are what it is all about. Keep em coming guys.

[Applecrow]

I've surrendered once too often when the enemy team only used it as an opportunity to kill me.

I have the names, never again. Screw the salvage, I'm getting medieval on their mechs.

That being said in the days of full premades I will offer and accept surrender when I know the entire team will honor it.

[Like a Sir]

I can almost never justify surrendering in my mech so I never bother. To elaborate, I have an XL engine, 2 MPL in one side torso, and 2 srm4s in the center. So as long as I am alive, I can do decent damage... Kind of feel like I have to keep going =D

[Selfish]

Maybe it was too much gaming in my youth, or even Dwarf Fortress in my senior, but screw the philosophy that I should care more about my gains at the end of the match than my enjoyment of the match itself.

(1 V 4, I was the only one who could run back to stop cap and we lost the main fight, I don't win)
http://youtu.be/E5Im...2Y?hd=1&t=4m40s

[Eltyr]

I take pride in my actions. In a one off fight, I can find absolutely no reason to ever surrender. I have no affiliation, but I am a loyal merc. You paid me to fight here, I'll fight here. Anyway, my aggressive style virtually never has me as the last surviving member of my team. My philosophy is defeat in detail; it just so happens that if I lose, my opponents manage it instead.

[Percival Hasek]

nitra, on 13 November 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

any one who looks up to kenny rogers deserves to be shot like the coward of the county .

so why dont you take a stand , and fight to the death instead of wussing out and pretending you are being all strategical .

cause there is nothing in this game to be strategic about .survival does nothing to provide long term gain.

nor does it conserve resources or endows bonuses .

all cowardice does is provide another halfhearted shiv preventing their team from winning because they are only partially committed to the battle as long as they are winning .

if things go badly they go run and hide.

Cowardice is the Primary reason for team loss in Mech Warrior Online !!

Survival is of no long term gain. Hmmm....maybe if you are playing a trial 'mech, I'll give you thatere not as much difference as a purchased mech. That accounts for the wastes of team slots out there running trial mechs and suiciding in them constantly instead of playing. But hey, they are being 'brave' by running out into the open in that cicada or commando right?

Spare me such' bravery' on my teams, please. Give me a thinking player any time over someone who thinks his small laser walking toros with no armor is going to single heandedly defeat a lance of enemy mechs.

But for anyone in a non-trial 'Mech, not getting blow up is cheaper to fix than getting blown up.

'Cowardice' (such a emotionally loaded and innacurate term to use term) is not the primary reason for team loss. New players as part of uncoordinated pugs in horrible trial mechs versus customized 'mechs in pre-made teams ran by players of far greater experience and skill is the major factor in team losses.


I have to admire how people will latch onto one comment because its easier to respond to a straw man than the rest of the comments.

Being down by three isn't automatically the time to run, but it is time to start considering your situation. What is your team doign wrong? Who are the other 5 on your team? are they participating? Are you down three, but stuck with 2 more AFK and disconnects? Het a headcount of who is active. What is your situation? What do you need to do to turn this around, and what are your goals? If the other 5 on your team are simply clueless scattered puggies, and you are pretty sure you are facing a team speak using premade thats at full strength, you'ld be a fool not to consider your chances are slim.

If the remaining enemy have been battered to heck, or lost all of their assaults, then certainly don't give up. If the match is still possible, stay in it. maybe they are out of position, and a couple of you can cap while your other units harass, delay and woudl be return defenders.

But, more than likely, down by three turns into down by4, them 5, then 6 when facing a good group, with equal skill on both sides. And at that point, the player who has goals that involve upgrades or buying a new mechs may want to contemplate an honorable end to the match.

Hiding when the odds are hopeless is preferable to surrender; as evidenced in the game there are many players out there you can't trust to accept a surrender. But if you can't hide and get away, give it a try.

And there is nothing wrong in offering surrendur to an enemy. It is a smart option for your team if you are in the winning situation. Capping is better than winning. No one on your team risks damage, or being killed. You get a higher reward for a capture win, and you may get a bit of respect by giving someone who fought a hard fight a break. There's no real fun in being part of a 6, 7, or 8 on one curbstomping of a lone survivor. That doesn't take skill. That isn't 'fun' competition.

I'll repeat it again, to be clear. You don't give up unless there is no feasible chance of victory, in your best judgement. Quitting too early is also damaging to your long range goals, and will certainly reduce your monetary gain and XP earned for that fight.


For those who enjoy the desperate last stands against all odds, good luck to you, and have fun.

Side thought---What is so enticing about a fleeing jenner that convinces a lance of slow assault 'mechs they are going, this one time, time, catch that darn 'Mech and try to chase it all over the map. Its the Charlie Brown effect of MWO. "This time, I'm going to get that jenner and kick it right through the goal posts!"

[Direwolfe72X]

I play the game for the fights, not to power down. I'd rather remember the valiant, yet hopeless final fight, then to remember I powered down.

Quitters never win, only powerdown.

[axeman]

Anyone remember the Mech 2 Mercs intro?

This guy captained the dropship.

That said, depending on what mood strikes me, sometimes I'll face reality and walk off into the horizon.

Other times I feel like going down like old mate in the Mech 4 intro.

[FrostPaw]

Never.

If you find me annoying because I won't just "let" you win, then I take satisfaction in that.

[o0Marduk0o]

My sig says it all.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 14 November 2012 - 02:26 AM.

[nitra]

Please dont take my writing personally i know i use the word you liberally but in no means is it as a personal attack . im using the word you, in more general sense . one day it will become second nature for me to be able to write in more generalized manner .

Survival is of no long term gain. Hmmm....maybe if you are playing a trial 'mech, I'll give you thatere not as much difference as a purchased mech. That accounts for the wastes of team slots out there running trial mechs and suiciding in them constantly instead of playing. But hey, they are being 'brave' by running out into the open in that cicada or commando right?

Spare me such' bravery' on my teams, please. Give me a thinking player any time over someone who thinks his small laser walking toros with no armor is going to single heandedly defeat a lance of enemy mechs.



But for anyone in a non-trial 'Mech, not getting blow up is cheaper to fix than getting blown up.

'Cowardice' (such a emotionally loaded and innacurate term to use term) is not the primary reason for team loss. New players as part of uncoordinated pugs in horrible trial mechs versus customized 'mechs in pre-made teams ran by players of far greater experience and skill is the major factor in team losses.

--
As desirable it is to romance about an organized team with hardened tactics being the sole reason for a good stomping . it is not the primary reason .

watching players i have seen how their cowardice yes cowardice . lets the team down .
instead of maximizing their damage across or into mechs they are to busy trying to conserve their own mech for god knows what . watching these players back out of skirmishes where their added fire power could have cored an enemy and turned the tied, can be described as cowardice.

many of times a player's fire power is needed yet they have run off in pursuit of easy targets or too busy sitting behind a hill waiting for a prime opportunity to strike . all the while scouts and the front line mechs are being pounded but, what is this conservative player doing ? nothing!! sure he may be around in the end game but he is going to be up against a superior force less his team kicks arse with out him..

and then if this player is a coward, what will he do when he sees the odds as unfavorable . he will go and hide.. if this player wants to do something as pointless as conserving their mech they should just quit MWO now and start playing farmville where their conservative strategies might actually gain them something.
--

I have to admire how people will latch onto one comment because its easier to respond to a straw man than the rest of the comments.

Being down by three isn't automatically the time to run, but it is time to start considering your situation. What is your team doign wrong? Who are the other 5 on your team? are they participating? Are you down three, but stuck with 2 more AFK and disconnects? Het a headcount of who is active. What is your situation? What do you need to do to turn this around, and what are your goals? If the other 5 on your team are simply clueless scattered puggies, and you are pretty sure you are facing a team speak using premade thats at full strength, you'ld be a fool not to consider your chances are slim.

--
What the heck ?!! are you doing thinking about pro vs con at this point of the game this is the time to push and find a target and wipe out something the game is going to go one or two ways why not push for the win rather than the lose ?
--


If the remaining enemy have been battered to heck, or lost all of their assaults, then certainly don't give up. If the match is still possible, stay in it. maybe they are out of position, and a couple of you can cap while your other units harass, delay and woudl be return defenders.

--
push push push .. again we are not on some campaign here its either win or lose .
--

But, more than likely, down by three turns into down by4, them 5, then 6 when facing a good group, with equal skill on both sides. And at that point, the player who has goals that involve upgrades or buying a new mechs may want to contemplate an honorable end to the match.

--

bah, loosing few several thousand cbills is worth the push, especially if a win means 50+ thousand bills
there is no real reward for preservation .unless you are aggrandizing (look at me !! im a schmart cwookie because i wan and shutdown my mech so i dont have to pay few thousand cbills burble, burble)

--

Hiding when the odds are hopeless is preferable to surrender; as evidenced in the game there are many players out there you can't trust to accept a surrender. But if you can't hide and get away, give it a try.

And there is nothing wrong in offering surrendur to an enemy. It is a smart option for your team if you are in the winning situation. Capping is better than winning. No one on your team risks damage, or being killed. You get a higher reward for a capture win, and you may get a bit of respect by giving someone who fought a hard fight a break. There's no real fun in being part of a 6, 7, or 8 on one curbstomping of a lone survivor. That doesn't take skill. That isn't 'fun' competition.

--
sorry disagree here , there is nothing gained by preserving your mech or trying to be honorable all your doing is giving away a win . and respect is earned while you may think you have done some noble deed by powering off your mech and watching the opposing team cap. it really boils down to treason. and you should be hung by your jimmies and skinned alive for such treachery . you was supposed to defend the damn base!! yet you gave it to the enemy ?? and for what ?? to save your self some cbills !! you MAGGOT !!
--

I'll repeat it again, to be clear. You don't give up unless there is no feasible chance of victory, in your best judgement. Quitting too early is also damaging to your long range goals, and will certainly reduce your monetary gain and XP earned for that fight.


For those who enjoy the desperate last stands against all odds, good luck to you, and have fun.

--
thats the game we are playing at the moment , maybe latter next year sometime their will be a purpose to be a bit more strategic about your mechs . However presently it is defend the base or capture the base. So go out and do it anything else is just unacceptable.

--

Side thought---What is so enticing about a fleeing jenner that convinces a lance of slow assault 'mechs they are going, this one time, time, catch that darn 'Mech and try to chase it all over the map. Its the Charlie Brown effect of MWO. "This time, I'm going to get that jenner and kick it right through the goal posts!"
--
Because...

Jenners are the Secondary reason for team loss on Mech Warrior .

where do you think all those lrms get their lock from ?

Edited by nitra, 14 November 2012 - 03:56 AM.

[Poerisija]

stoph, on 13 November 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Back in the good ole days of 8 man groups sometimes we would offer to allow the enemy to withdraw. It was rare but I have seen situations where they conceded the base and walked off and no on fired another shot.

I have been near to the last one standing and been offered quarter and I have accepted.

If I'm already engaged and the battle becomes hopeless I fight to the last. I know I won't be able to withdraw without being killed anyways.

Since I usually run an Assault Brawler I have seen 3-4 of my "teammates" run ahead and get themselves killed before I can get anywhere near and had the last four split on two sides of the map. In those instances I find a nice hill to hide behind and power down. I'm not one to throw myself on the sword for glory's sake alone.

I have also gotten into a fight, down by 3 or even 4 but a fair share of enemy mechs were heavily damaged which we were able to finish off quickly and go on to win.

So use good judgement but if the situation is hopeless disengage if you can and allow the base capture, it isn't the path to eternal glory but it is the mercenary way.

"The dead know only one thing, it is better to be alive." - FMJ

There were no "good old days", just 8-man pugstomps and spitting on the losers. Asking them to power down so you could core them with ease. It was disgusting and I'm happy those times are over.

For the powering down part... the guys who think their wallet first and glory second are the ones driving the big mechs sooner than the guys who prefer to take the repair bill instead. Which I think is perfectly suitable. They like dying with honour so they can keep doing while the smart of us prefer taking the money and running.

[Adeptus Odren]

00dlez, on 13 November 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

That isn't a "sure win" at least not in my book and I wouldn't blame you for giving that a shot, because as you demostrated, it's possible to pull it out.

But when your armless Yen Lo Wang is up against 5 mechs, give it up bro, its over.

Or an lrm cat with no missiles left.