293 replies to this topic

[Terror Teddy]

Khobai, on 14 November 2012 - 05:24 AM, said:

Yeah but thats because the cbill costs are poorly balanced. Like why is an atlas 10,000,000 cbills when its completely outclassed by a jenner?

Because their duties are completely different?

A Jenner is better at what it does, and so is the Atlas but their fields of expertise are different.

The Atlas is a TANK, designed to be able to take a LOT of punishment and have a HUGE arsenal of weapons. The Jenners job is NOT to try and do that job.

This is not a game where something heavier by default is BETTER than something lighter.

[Khobai]

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Because their duties are completely different?

A Jenner is better at what it does, and so is the Atlas but their fields of expertise are different.

The Atlas is a TANK, designed to be able to take a LOT of punishment and have a HUGE arsenal of weapons. The Jenners job is NOT to try and do that job.

This is not a game where something heavier by default is BETTER than something lighter.

At Atlas still should not cost more than a Jenner if its worse 1v1. And I assure you a Jenner can take far more punishment than an Atlas... due to no collisions, lag shielding, and the sorry sack state of missiles and hit detection. If anything a Jenner should cost more than an Atlas, as ridiculous as that sounds, its the truth.

Edited by Khobai, 14 November 2012 - 05:43 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

So wait, the guys with the most expensive cars get the most money...

Really?

Changed it to racing. A formula one driver makes more money than a demolition derby driver because a formula one car costs far more than a junker used in a demo derby. It's called economics.

[Ultrabeast]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

Changed it to racing. A formula one driver makes more money than a demolition derby driver because a formula one car costs far more than a junker used in a demo derby. It's called economics.

I think it's cute that you reply to everyone else and ignore my post that destroys your whole argument.

PS: You know nothing about economics.

[Stymir]

you should still have to work to get weapons and mechs. its a long grind to get a real mech but its worth it. its not pay to win and i hate it when people say that. the MC system is in place for those few people who either do not have the time to play the game or are to lazy to play and earn money. pay to win no the founders and premium bonuses are not astronomical there pretty low. and yes they start out with four mechs if they are legendary but they are going to have those 4 mechs for ever and they are not going to add more founders mechs so they are going to have to either spend MC or grind like the rest of us.

[ForceUser]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

Changed it to racing. A formula one driver makes more money than a demolition derby driver because a formula one car costs far more than a junker used in a demo derby. It's called economics.

Only they don't compete in the same races do they? Sorry not gonna work.

Khobai, on 14 November 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

At Atlas still should not cost more than a Jenner if its worse 1v1. And I assure you a Jenner can take far more punishment than an Atlas... due to no collisions, lag shielding, and the sorry sack state of missiles and hit detection.

You missed/ignored my post.

A tournament level jenner costs as much as a tournament level Atlas. A better skilled pilot in one will usually beat a worse skilled pilot in the other. I am not 100% sure but collisions/tackling *should* come back in once the netcode is better. It was in since just before open beta. Lag shielding should be better once the netcode is better, same with hit detection.

All of your points are inccorect.

[Khobai]

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A tournament level jenner costs as much as a tournament level Atlas.

no it doesnt

a jenner with DHS and an XL is like ~10,000,000 at most

my atlas with DHS and an XL and Gauss was ~18,000,000... almost double

Edited by Khobai, 14 November 2012 - 05:52 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

Only they don't compete in the same races do they? Sorry not gonna work.

No, they do not, but the costs for competing in formula one racing is far higher than demo derbies. Again, it's called economics.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 14 November 2012 - 05:46 AM.

[ForceUser]

The Herrick, on 14 November 2012 - 05:44 AM, said:

Because the price of the mech or it's running costs does not equate to it's performance. Any mech that uses missiles or ballistic ammunition above AC/2 size is crippled by running costs. This is what people are saying is unfair, this is not a difficult concept.

I guess those cartoon horses for little girls really do rot the brain.

Gauss is one of the best weapons in the game. What you talking about?

[o0Marduk0o]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 05:20 AM, said:

In your opinion and your opinion doesn't matter to me. This, however, has nothing to do with the economy which is the point of this thread. It's amazing how much you and him deflect away from the problems of the economy for free players.

Can we agree on "Economy is awful for bad players"? You are such an ignorant piece of [insert something funny], luckily you're the minority.

[James The Fox Dixon]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 05:47 AM, said:

Gauss is one of the best weapons in the game. What you talking about?

And costs cheaper then missiles, but lasers are cheapest of all. Small lasers are the most economically viable solution to the current economy since it doesn't require rearms and its replacement cost is the cheapest of all the weapons in the game. However, a trial mech is the long term economical solution for free players since it makes the most money and you don't have to repair or rearm it. Every two weeks you get a brand new selection of trial mechs that cost you zero c-bills to buy.

You still aren't addressing the issues of the economy not being in PGI's best interest nor the fact it is punching free players in the face.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 14 November 2012 - 05:51 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

Khobai, on 14 November 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

At Atlas still should not cost more than a Jenner if its worse 1v1.

A pimped Atlas costs more than a pimped Jenner, period.

[ForceUser]

Khobai, on 14 November 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

no it doesnt

Yes, yes they do. Jenner + FF, +DHS + Endo + Large XL
Atlas + DHS + 3llas (comes with gauss)

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

No, they do not, but the costs for competing in formula one racing is far higher than demo derbies. Again, it's called economics.

Why are you comparing them if they do not compete against each other?

[Terror Teddy]

Khobai, on 14 November 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

At Atlas still should not cost more than a Jenner if its worse 1v1. And I assure you a Jenner can take far more punishment than an Atlas... due to no collisions, lag shielding, and the sorry sack state of missiles and hit detection. If anything a Jenner should cost more than an Atlas, as ridiculous as that sounds, its the truth.

-Lag Shielding
-No Collisions
-Missiles
-Hit detection

These are not things that makes the Jenner SUPERIOR - these are things that needs to be FIXED. The Jenner by itself does not have those things built in that affects it's targets.

Remove the above problems and the Jenner will still have an upper hand due to regular mobility UNTIL the Atlas pilot shoots the legs from under it.

A slow Jenner is a dead Jenner.

[ForceUser]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:

And costs cheaper then missiles, but lasers are cheapest of all. Small lasers are the most economically viable solution to the current economy since it doesn't require rearms and its replacement cost is the cheapest of all the weapons in the game. You still aren't addressing the issues of the economy not being in PGI's best interest nor the fact it is punching free players in the face.

Good luck hitting me with small lasers on the other side of the map while I chew away at your CT with dual gauss/LRMS

Small lasers are excellent though on a swayback. In fact that is a cheap build that is really, really good. So good in fact that it's *ghasp* Tournament level.

Edited by ForceUser, 14 November 2012 - 05:53 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

Good luck hitting me with small lasers on the other side of the map while I chew away at your CT with dual gauss/LRMS

Good luck hitting something that you can't see and using cover. In a trial mech it doesn't make one lick of difference to the pilot using it now does it? No rearm and repairs with the highest profit earning potential in the game currently.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 14 November 2012 - 05:53 AM.

[Khobai]

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Yes, yes they do. Jenner + FF, +DHS + Endo + Large XL
Atlas + DHS + 3llas (comes with gauss)

Atlas doesnt come with gauss. Only the Atlas-K does which is a terrible variant that no one uses in competitive play. 3LL + Gauss is a terrible Atlas build. I would destroy that thing in about 10 seconds with my Atlas-D.

Atlas-D is the best overall variant, and will run you 9.5 million, another 5 million for the XL engine, another million for gauss+ammo, another 2 million for DHS, and at least another million for everything else.

Atlases cost way more than Jenners. period.

Quote

These are not things that makes the Jenner SUPERIOR - these are things that needs to be FIXED. The Jenner by itself does not have those things built in that affects it's targets.

Yes they need to be fixed. But currently they are built-in to the Jenner, saying theyre not is just silly.

Edited by Khobai, 14 November 2012 - 05:59 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 14 November 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

Atlas doesnt come with gauss. Only the Atlas-K does which is a terrible variant that no one uses in competitive play.

Why wouldn't they? I mean, I understand why it's not a preferred combat variant, but competitive play should be a totally different set of rules.

[ForceUser]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Good luck hitting something that you can't see and using cover. In a trial mech it doesn't make one lick of difference to the pilot using it now does it? No rearm and repairs with the highest profit earning potential in the game currently.

My 150k winnings before taking into account premium disagrees.

Also the 3llas C1 is fast enough to keep you at range and just as good in a brawl as it is at range. A Swayback that snuck up on me is playing to it's strengths. Me staying at range is playing to my strengths. It'd be a good fight.

Khobai, on 14 November 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

Atlas doesnt come with gauss. Only the Atlas-K does which is a terrible variant that no one uses in competitive play.

Atlas-D is the best overall variant, and will run you 9.5 million, another 5 million for the XL engine, another million for gauss+ammo, another 2 million for DHS, and at least another million for everything else.

Incorrect my dear friend. The K was in fact the first atlas I bought. It makes an *amazing* exterminatlus.

[Khobai]

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Incorrect my dear friend. The K was in fact the first atlas I bought. It makes an *amazing* exterminatlus.

No the Atlas-K has the worst hardpoints of any Atlas. Its freaking awful.