293 replies to this topic

[Scratx]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

Hehe looks like I will have to repeat myself

The most fun and best toys are not the most expensive. The best builds do not require the most expensive chassis, weapons or all the upgrades. The best mechs with he most fun toys do not cost the most to run.

Absolutely.

Anyone thinking they needs the most expensive toys in their mechs in order to have fun are very wrong, unless their definition of fun is having the most expensive toys installed regardless of effectiveness.

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

75% of your ammo gets refilled for free after every match

Yes, don't remind me. I'd rather not have that loophole in game. (and have the ammunition sanely priced to account for that ... ergo, ballistics x3 cheaper and missiles x5-6 for a 25% free reload scenario)

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

Sounds fun but I'm worried about weight just as much as crit on that build. LRM20s weigh a stupid amount. Even DDC atlases only boat 2 lrm20s and an lrm15 at most (Although not sure now with the extra crit artemis takes up, might even be less now)

Heck, this actually brings me to another point regarding the economy, why should you NOT be punished economically for running a bad build? Or alternatively, why should you be rewarded economically for running a bad build?

I didn't try building that, I just picked the most expensive crap I could think of, lol. Drop that to LRM15's if you can't stuff them in. The point is boating Artemis LRMs, XL engine, Ferro-Fibrous Armor and still have the heaviest mech around, or close to. (an Atlas might be better, actually, since you can probably stuff a heavier XL engine, more than compensating for having one less LRM launcher. Remember, trying to come up with a build that makes Recette giggle with dollar signs in her eyes thinking about how much money she'll make selling you ammo and replacement parts isn't the same as thinking how to make an effective build )

Edited by Scratx, 14 November 2012 - 04:49 AM.

[Sarevos]

Scratx, on 14 November 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

Absolutely.

Anyone thinking they needs the most expensive toys in their mechs in order to have fun are very wrong, unless their definition of fun is having the most expensive toys installed regardless of effectiveness.



Yes, don't remind me. I'd rather not have that loophole in game. (and have the ammunition sanely priced to account for that ... ergo, ballistics x3 cheaper and missiles x5-6)



I didn't try building that, I just picked the most expensive crap I could think of, lol. Drop that to LRM15's if you can't stuff them in. The point is boating Artemis LRMs, XL engine, Ferro-Fibrous Armor and still have the heaviest mech around, or close to. (an Atlas might be better, actually, since you can probably stuff a heavier XL engine, more than compensating for having one less LRM launcher. Remember, trying to come up with a build that makes Recette giggle with dollar signs in her eyes thinking about how much money she'll make selling you ammo and replacement parts isn't the same as thinking how to make an effective build )

ok you and force user create a new account and play a solo drop like a new player would and tell me its a fun experience and that that experience would make you want to play more

And go ahead come back here and lie saying that it was just fine

[ForceUser]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 04:36 AM, said:

It still is the biggest expense on my build because of the ammo cost. The FF doesn't even come close in cost to a single ton of SSRM ammo. Remember this is about economics and the 75% free rearm doesn't help low ammo carrying builds as much as it does for large ammo builds. I have 4 tons of ammo and that is it. At 75% rearm it still costs me over 54k to rearm a single ton of ammo.

I tried running the A1 with just 5 tons of ammo and 4srm6 and 2 srm4s (And that's with artemis for less spread) and I still ran out of ammo almost every match before everything was dead. bad mech design.

And I've said it before, misisle weapons are kinda meh atm, they are busy balancing that stuff.

And AGAIN if you drop FF you might just start seeing a profit on games you lose and a bigger one on games you win.

Your unwillingness to adapt your build is like you hitting your head against a wall and complaining about it hurting, but not willing to listen to everyone telling you to STOP hitting your head against the wall.

Not much can be done in that case my friend because sooner or later people will begin pointing and laughing once they are tired of helping.

[Scratx]

Sarevos, on 14 November 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

ok you and force user create a new account and play a solo drop like a new player would and tell me its a fun experience and that that experience would make you want to play more

I don't know which bit you're specifically speaking about, but if you mean the ammo cost bit, please check my ninja edit when I realised I had missed a critical bit of my position was missing.

The rest, I'm afraid I need you to be more specific.

[Vassago Rain]

Scratx, on 14 November 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

Absolutely.

Anyone thinking they needs the most expensive toys in their mechs in order to have fun are very wrong, unless their definition of fun is having the most expensive toys installed regardless of effectiveness.



Yes, don't remind me. I'd rather not have that loophole in game. (and have the ammunition sanely priced to account for that ... ergo, ballistics x3 cheaper and missiles x5-6 for a 25% free reload scenario)



I didn't try building that, I just picked the most expensive crap I could think of, lol. Drop that to LRM15's if you can't stuff them in. The point is boating Artemis LRMs, XL engine, Ferro-Fibrous Armor and still have the heaviest mech around, or close to. (an Atlas might be better, actually, since you can probably stuff a heavier XL engine, more than compensating for having one less LRM launcher. Remember, trying to come up with a build that makes Recette giggle with dollar signs in her eyes thinking about how much money she'll make selling you ammo and replacement parts isn't the same as thinking how to make an effective build )

[James The Fox Dixon]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

I tried running the A1 with just 5 tons of ammo and 4srm6 and 2 srm4s (And that's with artemis for less spread) and I still ran out of ammo almost every match before everything was dead. bad mech design.

And I've said it before, misisle weapons are kinda meh atm, they are busy balancing that stuff.

And AGAIN if you drop FF you might just start seeing a profit on games you lose and a bigger one on games you win.

Your unwillingness to adapt your build is like you hitting your head against a wall and complaining about it hurting, but not willing to listen to everyone telling you to STOP hitting your head against the wall.

Not much can be done in that case my friend because sooner or later people will begin pointing and laughing once they are tired of helping.

I shouldn't have to adapt a design that works perfectly for my playstyle just because you say so. Are you me? No, you aren't so step off your high horse and stop dictating to people how to play the game.

The rest is just a personal attack.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 14 November 2012 - 04:54 AM.

[Sarevos]

Scratx, on 14 November 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

I don't know which bit you're specifically speaking about, but if you mean the ammo cost bit, please check my ninja edit when I realised I had missed a critical bit of my position was missing.

The rest, I'm afraid I need you to be more specific.

I'm watching you...

[PhigNewtenz]

Valore, on 13 November 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

Repair costs for mechs using high tech gear, such as DHS, XL engines, Artemis, Ferro/Endo, are fairly high. Same goes for mechs running weapons which chew through large amounts of expensive ammo, i.e. Streaks and Artemis missiles.

As such, some argue that because of this, MWO is P2W, because only those who fork out for the premium boost, or pay for a premium money mech like the YLW, will be able to run these builds on a consistent basis.

My opinion is that if you run a high maintenence mech, you should be able to afford to run it without premium, and even turn a slight profit, as long as you win without completely wrecking your mech.

However, if you're running a mech with high level gear, and you lose, or come back with your mech having the crap shot out of it, you should lose money, or just about break even.

As for how much, not an excessive amount, but enough to tell you that you're not doing it right.

I'd say losing up to 100k cbills in which you played absolutely terribly and lost the match would be about right, seeing as to how the highest repair bills you can rack up is probably around 200k - 250k cbills.

Feedback from players looking to play without ever buying premium is most welcome. Is this too harsh?

I wonder if you'll be saying the same thing after a full ELO matching system is implemented and your win-rate is driven from whatever its current, pug-stomping value is down to 50%? Lot's of people who have high win-rates are underestimating the effect this will have on their perception of the C-bill system.

[ForceUser]

Sarevos, on 14 November 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

ok you and force user create a new account and play a solo drop like a new player would and tell me its a fun experience and that that experience would make you want to play more

And go ahead come back here and lie saying that it was just fine

My 'free' premium times should run out soon. I will run a lot of games with the builds I posted on the previous pages and with tournament builds posted in the guides section and see how well I do without premium. Since I am advocating playing in premades I will be playing in premades. I believe this should change quite a bit once phase 2 comes out as well and potentially even more with phase 3 depending on what they implement then.

[Scratx]

Sarevos, on 14 November 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

I'm watching you...

Hehe.

Also, addressing your suggestion, I've been paying attention to how much my mechs cost. I almost always make money even if I'd been without premium.

And since I have grinded up to a T43 in WoT without premium, I am pretty sure I wouldn't have a problem as long as I'm making a decent profit.

That said, I also do have a position on the new player experience you might like to hear. I think new players could use a discount on their first mech (say a million c-bills for example) or some other measure, like some form of rental mechs.

In other words, I want new players out of trial mechs sooner without literally giving away a commando or something... (that has its own set of issues)

I'm open for ideas, really. I know there are ISSUES for the new player... but how expensive blingy mechs are to run actually ISN'T one because they need to be able to buy and mod one to start with.

Edited by Scratx, 14 November 2012 - 05:06 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

My 'free' premium times should run out soon. I will run a lot of games with the builds I posted on the previous pages and with tournament builds posted in the guides section and see how well I do without premium. Since I am advocating playing in premades I will be playing in premades. I believe this should change quite a bit once phase 2 comes out as well and potentially even more with phase 3 depending on what they implement then.

You won't be having fun.

[ForceUser]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

I shouldn't have to adapt a design that works perfectly for my playstyle just because you say so. Are you me? No, you aren't so step off your high horse and stop dictating to people how to play the game.

The rest is just a personal attack.

I am giving you advice on your (bad) build and tips on how to do better in pug matches. I am sorry you feel that my analogy is a personal attack.

[Joseph Mallan]

This is like saying bad drivers shouldn't drive expensive cars. If a player can afford to play bad in an expensive Mech, let him. the OPs contempt is disgusting.

[James The Fox Dixon]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

I am giving you advice on your (bad) build and tips on how to do better in pug matches. I am sorry you feel that my analogy is a personal attack.

It may be a bad build to you, but you are not me. Capice?

[ForceUser]

Vassago Rain, on 14 November 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

You won't be having fun.

Oh silly, we *always* have fun when playing in a group on coms. it's half the reason to even boot up the game

[Vassago Rain]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

Oh silly, we *always* have fun when playing in a group on coms. it's half the reason to even boot up the game

You really won't be saying that when you're freeplayer scum. You'll get very frustrated, and quickly realize there's a gigantic paywall in the way of your enjoyment, that cuts you out of running a lot of what you now take for granted.

[ForceUser]

James The Fox Dixon, on 14 November 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

It may be a bad build to you, but you are not me. Capice?

A bad build is a bad build. I mean I've seen some of the best players in the game take a bad build and do half decent with it, but put them in a good build? They dang well own everyone on the enemy team, making 1500 unmodified XP or more sometimes.

It's down right scary.

Vassago Rain, on 14 November 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

You really won't be saying that when you're freeplayer scum. You'll get very frustrated, and quickly realize there's a gigantic paywall in the way of your enjoyment, that cuts you out of running a lot of what you now take for granted.

If you say so mate.

Edited by ForceUser, 14 November 2012 - 05:13 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

Oh silly, we *always* have fun when playing in a group on coms. it's half the reason to even boot up the game

Only half????

[ForceUser]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 November 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

Only half????

Big stompy robots is PLENTY to fill the other half

At least for me.

[James The Fox Dixon]

ForceUser, on 14 November 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

A bad build is a bad build. I mean I've seen some of the best players in the game take a bad build and do half decent with it, but put them in a good build? They dang well own everyone on the enemy team, making 1500 unmodified XP or more sometimes.

It's down right scary.

Is that with or without premium? I am a very good player with this build, so your opinion means jack and squat to me. Just because someone wins a tournament doesn't mean jack either.