41 replies to this topic

[Redoxin]

I have had pretty good success while playing solo without a group or TS. Yesterday 9 wins out of 9 games.
With the matchmaking changes coming on the 20th the win chance for anyone without a group should be close to 50%.

I believe the bigger poblem for many "casual" players that dont play the game very often is just that they are not very good at it. Because it actually takes time to become better.

Edited by Redoxin, 16 November 2012 - 06:54 AM.

[NapalmRat]

AtomicFrawg, on 16 November 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

Soooooo, you want PGI to change the way the game is played because you cant put more than 20-30 mins a day during the week on their game? Just play on the weekends, problem solved.

And I get what you are saying about casual players, but your allowed time, during the week, puts you in the category of the casual Farm ville/ cafe ville player. Not being rude or anything, but come back into reality and realize not everyone has the same issue you do.

I would say you are only able to get, what maybe 2-3 matches in? That's not real worth playing this game at all during the week. Again play on on the weekend only.

It seems the real issue is that you like the game but you can't play as much as you would like. Family, Food, Work, Bill, then video games. If you don't have the time for the last one, its best to move on.

Fantastic. But also realize I need you to come back to reality and realize that not all of us have an excessive amount of time to play video games. That being said this game is overall a business venture for these folks and they're trying to make money. And making money off a F2p game involves ppl willing to spend money. People aren't going to want to spend money unless they think spending money is going to help them dominate. Which goes back to my original post.

[AtomicFrawg]

NapalmRat, on 16 November 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

Fantastic. But also realize I need you to come back to reality and realize that not all of us have an excessive amount of time to play video games. That being said this game is overall a business venture for these folks and they're trying to make money. And making money off a F2p game involves ppl willing to spend money. People aren't going to want to spend money unless they think spending money is going to help them dominate. Which goes back to my original post.

So again you need to come into reality and realize the world does not revolve around your time. Your OP was about how you only have 20-30min to play their game and you would like something to help casual players like you.(because all casual players have 20-20 mins) Well sir, 20-30 min of play per night is Not even enough time to casually play any game, well maybe except Combat Atari.
As I said I understand about casual play. I play casually 1-1.5 hrs a night If i feel like it.

Edited by AtomicFrawg, 16 November 2012 - 09:15 AM.

[Famhair]

AtomicFrawg, on 16 November 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

... realize the world does not revolve around your time....

Mine does, and anyone wanting to effectively sell me anything needs to understand that.

At this point in the Beta process the game has attracted hardcore gamers who may or may not have any history with BattleTech and casual players like me who go way back with BT. The question seems to be how to accommodate noobs (also like me) without compromising the game's fidelity for the hardcore guys while also coaxing the noobs to get hooked and spend a little cash. To the first point, set an XP threshold system on the drops. The players would never need to know that it was there, and you would always end up with 0 XP players in trial mechs playing against other 0 XP players in trial mechs. New players with bad skills don't get discouraged by getting wasted 30 times before they log their first kill, and the good players get consistently good competition.

As far as casual players paying money to play, it will never happen so long as the game remains only an arena combat simulation. However, if there were a galaxy wide, long-term scenario storyline that I could check in with once or twice a day and play a 30 minute mission that would affect the scenario, I could get into that. An MMO that's got some features of an MMORPG that doesn't force me to play 15 hours a day in order to get anywhere!

Edited by Famhair, 16 November 2012 - 11:21 AM.

[Tarkesis]

AtomicFrawg, on 16 November 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

Soooooo, you want PGI to change the way the game is played because you cant put more than 20-30 mins a day during the week on their game? Just play on the weekends, problem solved.

And I get what you are saying about casual players, but your allowed time, during the week, puts you in the category of the casual Farm ville/ cafe ville player. Not being rude or anything, but come back into reality and realize not everyone has the same issue you do.

I would say you are only able to get, what maybe 2-3 matches in? That's not real worth playing this game at all during the week. Again play on on the weekend only.

It seems the real issue is that you like the game but you can't play as much as you would like. Family, Food, Work, Bill, then video games. If you don't have the time for the last one, its best to move on.

You do realize that most, and I mean 70%, of players in a FTP game fall into this category of player right?
Most players can't devote a huge chunk of time to games.

MWO will end up one of 2 ways. Either they will become more user friendly (or light user friendly as it were) or it will end up with a tiny user base of elite players.

Option one makes more money btw.

Which do you think PGI will go with?

[dxwarlock]

AtomicFrawg, on 16 November 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

So again you need to come into reality and realize the world does not revolve around your time.

No the world does not, but my time and money do revolve around me
So where I spend it is dictated by what gives me the most 'bang for the buck' of my small window of free time.

Im not knocking the game, Im enjoying the crap out of it, and have gotten myself some MC already.
Just pointing out some of us with a job, family, kids, have varying degrees of 'free time'. And when it comes to how they spend it, the world may not revolve around them for it, but any company that wants their money has to take that into consideration.
You shouldn't feel punished by a game because your life dictates that you cant spend enough time in it to keep up.

Sure those that devote more time should get more reward for it. But those that cant shouldn't feel 'ashamed and disappointed' by it.

Edited by dxwarlock, 16 November 2012 - 01:42 PM.

[keith]

i will call my self casul compaired to what i used to do. i play 2-3 hours a night at most. in my hard core days of gamign i used to play 5-6+. since open beta has droped i now have 5 mechs bought. 4+4 of my founders are unlocked, wokring on my 5th mech now saving for new mech now. game is not that bad of a grind. only thing it is realy missing is a decent store. preium account is there, but if we had a store that gave c bill boost and xp boost the casual gamer could keep up with the hard core person who had much more time.

[SmithMPBT]

The Grind here isn't too bad compared to others (WoT). Its the match based repetetiveness from your actions lacking meaning that focus people on the C-bills. Once matchmaking is fixed and the Meta game arrives alot of the casual player retention issues should be solved.

[Tarl Cabot]

SmithMPBT, on 16 November 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

The Grind here isn't too bad compared to others (WoT). Its the match based repetetiveness from your actions lacking meaning that focus people on the C-bills. Once matchmaking is fixed and the Meta game arrives alot of the casual player retention issues should be solved.

The bold piece is the clincher. Right now the real goal should be building up the skill, knowledge, social networking and mech hanger for when Community Warfare does arrive. Even if the player is not attached to a specific unit they will need to chose a House. And those players, the ones who are here today, will be in the shoes of those who have been playing since closed beta, learning to work with what they have on hand.

The is at Staples.

[Thirdrail]

Well, ok, let's set aside Piranha for a minute, since none of us really have any direct control over them.

Are there things that we, the other players, could do to make this work better for you guys? Maybe adding some people to your friend list, so you have someone to play with during your 30 minute forays? Better communication in in-game chat?

As I've said many times around here, I'm very pro-Piranha when it comes to them making money. But, at the same time, Battletech, and tactical board games in general, have never operated on a diffused economic model. A couple of people (or, often, one) spend money on the game, and miniatures, and spend a zillion hours painting things, and learning all the rules, and redesigning their rec rooms so the ping pong table now has hexes and terrain features, and then everyone else just shows up to play games. I don't see why that needs to be thrown out the cockpit window the minute we switch to an online format. There's simply no precedent for saying to all the free players, "We don't care about you, get out."

That is not the way of our people. You can't cite in-game canon in one post and then abandon the canon of gaming itself in the next.

Edited by Thirdrail, 16 November 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[dxwarlock]

Thirdrail, on 16 November 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

As I've said many times around here, I'm very pro-Piranha when it comes to them making money. But, at the same time, Battletech, and tactical board games in general, have never operated on a diffused economic model. A couple of people (or, often, one) spend money on the game, and miniatures, and spend a zillion hours painting things, and learning all the rules, and redesigning their rec rooms so the ping pong table now has hexes and terrain features, and then everyone else just shows up to play games. I don't see why that needs to be thrown out the cockpit window the minute we switch to an online format. There's simply no precedent for saying to all the free players, "We don't care about you, get out."

This is what I'm pointing out, and driving off my friends I'm trying to talk into playing.
I myself have looked past the "its not mechwarrior/BT as we knew it" aspect and enjoy it.
But having a HARD time convincing my friends that love the BT universe of the same.

As it is now, it would be like playing tabletop, and each person has to fund their own miniatures, any new guys wanting to try it before buying some gets a premade tiny set of standard mechs.
Now Bob a long time player of BT, hes got time and money to burn..and shows up with his miniature army hes coughed up for over the years, all upgraded and decked out..and stomps the new guys that get the 'starter set'.
And only thing I could tell them is "well each player gets what they pay for..you want to best Bob, go fork out some cash on your miniatures of your own"
Not many people would return next weekend, knowing that Bob is coming next weekend with his army of doom, and didn't enjoy the time they did get to spend playing it.

BT has ALWAYS been about "getting together to have fun" not "grind your way to a point where you can have fun and keep up".
You should get people hooked on the enjoyment of playing, Just like the tabletop. Someone stops by, sees you playing..gets in a game or 2 and has a hell of a time..then next thing you know hes out buying mechs and paint, and structures to chip in, and doing it because he WANTS to, not because he needs to, to be competitive.
Make people want to give you money..not make them feel inferior where they need to give you money out of shame.

Edited by dxwarlock, 16 November 2012 - 03:11 PM.

[dxwarlock]

Thirdrail, on 16 November 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Are there things that we, the other players, could do to make this work better for you guys? Maybe adding some people to your friend list, so you have someone to play with during your 30 minute forays? Better communication in in-game chat?

Better ingame/lobby chat would help a LOT I think for the solo players.
I know from my experience and my friends. If I wasn't there on teamspeak with them helping them out, figure out what the hell to do ingame, and such..they would have left after an hour.
The simple 'training grounds' video didn't help much at all. And these are long time MW/BT players watching it.
Knowing the rulesset, and watching a video does not translate into "Ok I got it, I'm all set to be thrown in a live match" mentality.

Something,even simple out of combat lobby chat, to give the first time players with no friends that play a feeling more than "here you go, your on your own now to figure it out".

[Gramrock]

I understand your concerns but wait untill the matchmaking system gets finished and the game gets released...
I am sure it won't stay like this for long...

[dxwarlock]

Oh yea, I understand totally..its beta much will change, improve, morph as it gets closer to release. I myself am enjoying it for what it has, not

Was just giving input from a 3rd person view of people I've tried to get to play it as it is..why they not too impressed/excited about tossing money into a beta game as it is at the moment, All of them have no problem with the learning curve, its the helplessness feeling of being stuck in a trail mech, trying to take out others that have bigger guns, better heatsinks, and faster XL engines.

Granted, those changes aren't THAT big a deal in a fight of equal skill players. But it is compounded, and a huge advantage when you get to have a veteran pilot with them, vs a new guy learning without them all.
So they get frustrated..learning the controls, tactics for a PUG, the layout of the maps...THEN have to try to toe to toe with a guy that can hit harder, better heat so can shoot faster, and bigger engine and mech XP to out dance them

One friend described it as getting tossed in the roman Colosseum with a spare sword and a shield while barefoot, to fight the 5 time champion that has a battle axe, body armor, and shoes. Sure the skill of the fighter comes into play..but the stuff the champion has sure doesn't hurt his chances at all

Hopefully the learning curve (well 'learning sheer cliff' I guess..as there is no slope to it as its stands..it pick a trial mech and goto a live game) gets smoothed out some.
And the new game modes, factions, and ongoing balance of power will get people to stick around past the
"do random matches for money so you can get more mechs to do random matches"

Edited by dxwarlock, 16 November 2012 - 05:34 PM.

[Quinton]

using the stock mechs they give me, in 20-30 minutes i can usually get 3-4 matches in. During that time if i play to the mechs strength (and not like a stoned muskrat, sorry muskrats) I can pull in 100-120k cbills easily. It'll be a long time before you can buy a mech only playing that tiny amount of time, but if you were hoping to get all the benefits of the longterm players, or the people who pay real money to play the game, then may i suggest you check out farmville on facebook, or perhaps 90% of the iphone games in existence? I'm sure they would recognize a kindred soul when they see one.

[Citizen Louis]

Quinton, on 17 November 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

using the stock mechs they give me, in 20-30 minutes i can usually get 3-4 matches in. During that time if i play to the mechs strength (and not like a stoned muskrat, sorry muskrats) I can pull in 100-120k cbills easily. It'll be a long time before you can buy a mech only playing that tiny amount of time, but if you were hoping to get all the benefits of the longterm players, or the people who pay real money to play the game, then may i suggest you check out farmville on facebook, or perhaps 90% of the iphone games in existence? I'm sure they would recognize a kindred soul when they see one.

Ha ha, I'm terrible at the game, but this made me smile It is hard to find people that are worse than I am, but it is fun to fight (I've never actually killed anybody) them when I do.

[p4r4g0n]

Agree with OP that the new player experience seems really counter-productive if your goal is to hook people from the get go and get them emotionally invested enough to spend money on the game. However, no point repeating again the things that PGI should have done but didn't in this regard.

We can only hope that PGI does something about this sooner rather than later. Having said that, the only reason I can think of why they didn't is that the improved new user experience is tied into the meta game in some way and can't be rolled out without it. The other possibility is that they're stupid which I very much doubt.

If the game is not quite to your taste at the moment, take a break from it and come check it out again in a few months. MWO is currently clearly not a complete product and I'm looking forward to seeing what the rest of the game looks like.

00dlez, on 14 November 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Besides that, a lot of casual players are also free forever players... PGI doesn't need to bend over backwards to cater to them,

AtomicFrawg, on 16 November 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

Soooooo, you want PGI to change the way the game is played because you cant put more than 20-30 mins a day during the week on their game? Just play on the weekends, problem solved. And I get what you are saying about casual players, but your allowed time, during the week, puts you in the category of the casual Farm ville/ cafe ville player. Not being rude or anything, but come back into reality and realize not everyone has the same issue you do. I would say you are only able to get, what maybe 2-3 matches in? That's not real worth playing this game at all during the week. Again play on on the weekend only. It seems the real issue is that you like the game but you can't play as much as you would like. Family, Food, Work, Bill, then video games. If you don't have the time for the last one, its best to move on.

Wow! Seriously guys? The OP just pointed out something that was highlighted in Closed Beta ... repeatedly.

The reality here is that if MWO cannot generate sufficient revenues during Open Beta to stay afloat and pay for more content development, MWO will have to at least show that there is sufficient growth in active user base during the Open Beta period that this will happen at some reasonable point in time to secure additional development funds once the Kickstarter funds run out.

Failure to do either will see a repeat of the MBPT: 3025 Open Beta.

Treating new users who take the trouble to make a reasonable post on forums outlining their issues / concerns with contempt seems .... [ah, hell. insert your own adjective / phrase here]. More so when you consider the probability that for every new user who posts something in the forums, a bigger number tried the game and walked away without any feedback whatsoever.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 18 November 2012 - 07:36 AM.

[Jim3]

Napalm,

As a casual player, if you want to win, stay behind the biggest mach on your team and kill the guys trying to shoot him in the back, this will allow him to focus on the guy he wants to destroy, and you will win much more.

AS for the customizable mech, practice with the trial medium. A new hunchback or centurian should run you 3.5 million. That is about 35 maches at an average take home of 100k per match. Then you have a permenantly customizable mech forever in three working weeks at 2 matches a night.

[Hayashi]

It takes some time to get used to the game as the learning curve is ridiculously steep. Many good FPS players come here and get their cockpit caved in because they were in a vulnerable position. Players not accustomed to shooting games will do even worse.

I don't disagree that the matchmaker system needs work, but work on it won't really change the new player experience much. Even at present, if you drop against a group of a partial 4-man premade and 4 PUGs, for every match the odds are against you, there will be another match in which the odds are with you. In another game, the premade will be on your side.

As a new player, try to hang slightly back. Follow the other players ahead of you, who already have experience, and back them up. If you're trying to fight experienced players alone you will probably die very quickly, but if you hang back a bit and support your teammates instead of attempting to charge, your death rate will drop. And the longer you spend not being dead in a game, the faster you'll learn how to play better.

I'm hoping the trials either get better, or a free starter Mech (say, the Flea or UrbanMech, they're good cheap choices) is given after more cheap chassis make their way into the game. But regardless, the steepness of the learning curve is hard to avoid, as you're not facing a normal-difficulty computer AI in here, you're facing Elite-level human players right from the outset.

[Stingz]

Player experience, and surgical accuracy potential of lasers make it very hard to survive in the slow, oven-hot trial mechs. PGI needs to modify the trial mechs at least somewhat from stock to fit MWOs heat scale.

Especially since all F2P players need to use them for quite a while. Even longer if you don't have much time to play.

Edited by Stingz, 18 November 2012 - 10:13 AM.