3696 replies to this topic

[Dirk Le Daring]

Do not go with 3rd person view. It offers too much advantage, and is not at all fitting with a sim-type game. <enter key twice !!> If, however you do do the [redacted] act of implementing it, make it server specific. Example: you ALL either play 3rd person on the server or you ALL play first person view. <enter key twice> Bottom line is I am against 3rd person, but if you must do it, keep the 3rd person viewers separate. You will likely lose players if you run mixed servers. In my opinion 3rd person view in a sim game is an exploit. If you are wondering about <enter twice> look here...http://mwomercs.com/...ey-malfunction/

[nodie]

Why,

I fail to understand, the reasoning.

I understand in order to make a game successful we must appeal to a larger audience, yes but do we have to dumb it down so every toddler can play?

The game is simple enough to understand if new players are finding it hard to get a handle on the control system. Please just introduce a training map where a player can just practice maneuvering.

Regards,
Theodore 'nodie' Dulay

[KarrRadane]

No, no and thrice no to 3rd person.

[CocoaJin]

What we need is a better interface to better convey the information, not a non-immersive, over-handed crutch.

Every game has a learning curve and either you feel its worth it to invest the time or you dont. Those who dont feel its worth it wont be around very long anyway. Its the perceived intrinsic value of the game that motivates people to put in the effort. Without that sense of value, the player is just going to get their 3wk novelty fix and move on. Been there, done that.

What we need is better information provided for positional and directional awareness. The HUD needs a vector indicator, a simpe pip that shows you what direction the mech is pointing/moving(where the feet are pointing). The triangles on the heading bar are nice, and should remain, but they are outside the focal area of the person, especially under fire/in combat/distressed situtations. When the pip is off the screen, have a triangle/arrow that sits on the edge of the screen in the direction of the pip.

We also need a graphical, 2D overlay that shows in an easy to interpret Torso to Leg orientation. It can be a top down view of the mech with easy to understand visual orientation between torso and legs, or as simpe as a biege/white/yelloe view arc as seen on the map, oriented up on the screen, overlayed over a green arrow that rotates according to and in reference to the legs. The arrow would always give a good indication of what direction you'd be heading if you move forward(and back). When you are going backwards, a smaller red arrow could appear on the tail of the green arrow, pointing in the opposite direction.

The issue isnt that dealing with mech movement and orientation is hard...is that the devs have neglected to provide effective indicators to properly convey the info to the player/pilot. Once the info is provided, its up to the pilot to learn to interpret and develop the movement skills...a 3rd person view will still require a learning curve, new players will still have movement issues...there is no easy way of learning how to effectivly and profficently operate any vehicle at a high level of performance while under distress...period. It just takes time, there are no short cuts.

[soth007]

No third person!

I love the feel of the gameplay, why would you mess with it? You will alienate the FPS community and it will hurt your game's popularity.

[Orzorn]

Soy, on 14 November 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Isn't it ironic, how some players think 3pv would be implemented in order to help newbies?

While others state that 3pv would be only helpful to hardcore players who would abuse it?

Whoa whoa whoa - you mean to tell me that it could potentially be beneficial to players of all skill levels and playstyles???

Not beneficial, destructive. Having third person usable in actual games would force all players to use it to be competitive. If you played Mechwarrior 4 you would have seen this.

People are against such an implementation of third person because those people (myself included) ENJOY first person. I would be forced to switch to third person to remain competitive against the corner/hill-peekers and pop tarters.

At that point it isn't a choice, it becomes mandatory to use it if you want to compete on the same level as everyone else.

[Shively]

It's good to see that PGI is still full of nothing but excellent ideas, as always.

No, really, not only have they found a way to completely break the game's "immersion" factor (one of the very few things the game actually does well), they've discovered an avenue to even further put off fixing the NPE by adding some sort of minimal tutorial - at least enough to cover movement and weapon usage -, as well as tie up resources that would be better put to use, you know, fixing some of the game's many almost-entirely broken mechanics. What about DHS? What about Gaussapults making a laughing stock of the Kuritan warhorse? What about the mechlab's numerous bugs and glitches? And what about that rate of heat accumulation/weapon firing speed in relation to the TT values that the game still seems to be revolving around?

nodie, on 14 November 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

The game is simple enough to understand if new players are finding it hard to get a handle on the control system. Please just introduce a training map where a player can just practice maneuvering.

This is most likely the best option for PGI. It's a simple, easy fix that would allow players a testbed to get accustomed to mech controls without messing with matchmaking, and is minimalistic enough that there's very little for PGI to botch in delivering.

Well, I'll take any new content over nothing, completely senseless and asinine as it may be.

Is now a good time to ask for a refund?

Edited by Shively, 14 November 2012 - 03:24 PM.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

1200 hundred before 'Yes' even gets in the triple digits.

[Daekar]

My input is that it is an understandable reaction to a problem. However, it is not the logical and correct reaction to the problem of learning curve that Russ discussed on the podcast... this is a symptom of a larger and more important issue: new player experience. I suggest the following to alleviate the issues Russ observed: 1) Training. Not a video, but an actual training map with voiceovers and triggers where the... hell, just copy one from one of the earlier MW titles, they were all good. 2) Remember in MW3 where the little window in the lower righthand corner showed an external view of the mech? None of the surroundings, just the mech (no double-render issues) where the relationship between the torso and legs is easily and intuitively seen. Do that. 3) Implement skill-based matchmaking. That way new players who haven't gotten the hang of things like torso twisting will be fighting other players who also suffer the same inability.

None of these will result in a split community, which will be the result of the currently proposed solution.

[RG Notch]

Soy, on 14 November 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Isn't it ironic, how some players think 3pv would be implemented in order to help newbies?

While others state that 3pv would be only helpful to hardcore players who would abuse it?

Whoa whoa whoa - you mean to tell me that it could potentially be beneficial to players of all skill levels and playstyles???

No way.

Yet people bash it.

I'm grinning at the moment.

If you take pop tarting and seeing around corners to be an improvement, why then yes it does "improve" the game for everyone who wants advantages.

[Dirk Le Daring]

If there has to be a 3rd person view for new players, make it restricted to a new player server. Other than that, only view should be from the cockpit.

[Alexander Diaz]

I think this thread needs to be started over with the Dev team outlining HOW they are going to implement 3rdPPOV. Maybe a list of options. Maybe clarify that units will be invisible if not visible in 1st person, ect... Right now, the conversation is being had with very little data on how the devs would do this without hurting the core players.

[Mason Grimm]

If you want to have this for a training server or mode where people are just shooting targets or AI mechs or something sure but to be a feature for live players? Absolutely not.

[DeathofSelf]

Soy, on 14 November 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Isn't it ironic, how some players think 3pv would be implemented in order to help newbies?

While others state that 3pv would be only helpful to hardcore players who would abuse it?

Whoa whoa whoa - you mean to tell me that it could potentially be beneficial to players of all skill levels and playstyles???

No way.

Yet people bash it.

I'm grinning at the moment.

Auto-aiming and armor re-gen would also be beneficial to both, doesn't mean I want it in the game. Bottom line is this, 3rd person breaks immersion, and provides an unfair advantage over people who want to use 1st person.

[Ravensfire]

Third person view would detract from gameplay and the experience of the game in so many ways it is almost unfathomable as to why it could be considered anything but a "bad idea".

[1nferno]

No on 3rd person during combat, however I would accept a third person view during spectate mode.

[PlasmoidPixel]

I doubt i'd use it much. Would be a cool option for spectator though. They have said they were trying to find a way to implement it without it representing a significant tactical advantage. We haven't seen what it does or how it works, so don't make any huge assumptions.

[PropagandaWar]

Ownyu, on 14 November 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

They have already gotten rid of mechs being knocked down (I liked it the way it was) so now mechs just try and run right through one another as a tactic. Now they want to make this game feel even less like a SIM by adding third person, what are they thinking? When I'm playing MWO i want to imagine I'm a pilot of one of these beasty contraptions, and it would be nice to have it as close to realistic as it can be, and I don't think I'm alone. So please don't bring 3rd person.

Knockdowns are coming back. The warping issue and not getting hit when down was a problem. Even though not falling seems to be a bigger problem now. Id rather take my chances at shooting warpers.

Maybe we can add Power ups, Jump across map jets and sidestep too! Oh Call of Hawken did that already! Damn!

[CeeKay Boques]

Madoc Owain, on 14 November 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

If PGI is interested in helping new players figure out how to drive a 'mech at a trade show, the quickest, simplest thing to do is to program an "EASY" mode that simply locks the torso, remaps left/right mouse to turn left/right or similar.

It's THAT EASY.

This allows the programmers to focus on more important things and doesn't fragment the user community further. Why not do that instead of breaking promises and splitting users apart even more?

Oh.... oh I like this. Advanced options yes.... "I got this down... hey, how do you guys turn your torso that looks cool, I can't ...oh... options? Ok let me look!"

[Loosenutt]

I say no.


Reason being is that you will remove a real tactics part of the game, and ruin the job of light and faster medium mechs. Right now faster mechs with less armor need this tactic of no 3rd person to stay alive and contribute to the fight. If you give third person view, then the game will suffer.

Not for nothing, i would think there is more pressing issues then this? 3rd person imho has be the last thing you guys work on.