3696 replies to this topic

[PlzDie]

3rd person view, no thanks.

[Sam Slade]

Accuso, on 14 November 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

... it was stated before and even promised not to implement 3rd person which led to the decission of players to buy the founders packs in the end...

Ezrekiel, on 14 November 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

I'd really appreciate it if PGI stayed true to their original game concept. -->> no 3rd person.

The above is true for most Founders I believe. Expect a HUGE demand for Founders pack refunds if you implement this and bear in mind that saying no will likely lead to your core player base walking away. This is pandering, plain and simple. It is not a good thing in the long term for all the splitting of player base reasons mentioned earlier.

As soon as it is implemented the bleating about "stupid invisible mechs shooting me" will appear on the forums as those who couldn't understand the legs/torso difference without seeing it demand to see what 'should' be visible from their vantage point(see how that went with World of Tanks). Once you open the door on pandering to Arcade Shooter demands you cannot close it.

[FreeZe]

Third person view would destroy everything that they've worked extremely hard to create in this game. Finally, I see a mech game that isn't an arms race, or a 15 min standoff between two mountain ridges full of hill poppers.The current balance has people playing the field at all ranges, and every weapon is used.

Why can brawlers be so effective? The answer is because people can't see me coming unless they pop up over the hill. You add MW4 style 3rd person ultra vision and all that goes out the window. It is unacceptable to allow people an advantage of seeing around objects by using 3rd person view.

Yes, it would be an advantage that everyone could use, but it would directly hurt the medium to short range aspect of the game. Basically, 3rd person would equal sniper wars for every match. Nobody would take short range weapons because you'd be toast before you could cross the battlefield.

If the sole basis for 3rd person view is so people can see their own mech in action then allow a limited 3rd person view that shows simply your mech and nothing else. Eliminate the HUD, and disallow targeting while observing yourself in 3rd person, and it might be feasible as long as the camera range is close enough to prevent people from looking around objects and corners.

Another option would be to add custom lobby games that people could use 3rd person view in to get a better understanding of how their mechs move. However, anything ranked or that gave xp or money should always be 1st person only.

I think it's stupid to magically fly behind your mech while controlling. You've made some wonderful looking cockpit art, and adding 3rd person is just ******* that out the window.

Conclusion:
What are the developers going to do when noobs want auto-target? What are they going to do when they want instant heal power-ups? Pandering to whiners will destroy this game. I would think a poll showing a 90% disapproval of the idea should be all the feedback they need.

[Cache]

Divine Madcat, on 14 November 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

Any further dev input on this crap???

Don't expect to see anything immediately. It hasn't been implemented so there is no rush. I'm sure they want to look over the feedback, see if there are any usable suggestions, and run them through the idea/testing process.

[FactorlanP]

Xyberviri, on 14 November 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

How would something like this be added in game with out it breaking rules? would it be like a probe that is launched from the back of the mech? and then you have say a PiP that switches between the two? something that would show up on the radar and have los rules the same as a mech, and hopefully be costly to buy and repair?

I seem to recall one of the mw games having a 3rd person camera but then again it could have been a non fasa universe game, maybe heavy gears.

A probe that could be launched, and lasted a few seconds, would be very cool.

But that is definitely NOT what PGI is talking about doing.

[Soy]

DeathofSelf, on 14 November 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

Then fine, but I don't see a way to make that happen

You get it. Thanks.

Other people seem to think that tactical advantage or situational awareness is a bad thing. I don't understand how.

The logic seems to be either that it would give noobs skill and water down the game play.
OR
The logic seems to be that it would give powergamers a cheese edge and break the game open.

Both of those cannot be true simultaneously.

..I mean they could be, and the game would be ruined. But I'm not really a skeptic; I enjoy the game, as far as I can tell others do too, so... it seems to me this is a pretty good game. Call me an optimist I guess?

I buy the logic about watering down the fluff/ambiance more than I do either of those 2, and even that's pretty BS since it's optional. Just like RPing.

Edited by Soy, 14 November 2012 - 04:42 PM.

[Livewyr]

If you do a 3rd person view: do it in a training match setup, where the player brings a trial mech; earns no XP, no credits, nothing with other players the same way... That way they can learn what the mech is doing (in regards to torso twist) and then come and join the big boys club.

[AEgg]

I don't see it as a particularly bad idea. The "advantage" to be had from a third person view is somewhere between zero and negligible, even less so if it's a MW3-style third person view that's on the ground to the right of the mech instead of floating above it's back.

Third person adds a lot to immersion, simply because a cockpit equates to a HUD for most players, which makes the game seem just like any other shooter. Since you can't turn your head to look around without six monitors (there aren't enough control axis), a cockpit view shows you far less than reality would.

A similar comparison is racing games, where third person is the standard not because it's exactly realistic, but because it's more so than an in-car camera is. An in-car camera means you can't see anything on your left or right until it's already past you, which obviously isn't the case in reality. A third person view gives you the left right view you would really have, while adding a foot or two behind you and a view above you, which means nothing in most racing games.

The lack of control axis will always plague simulation games, at least until circular monitors become popular. Either you have a "real" view location, but a hugely reduced FOV, or you have a "fantasy" view location but a more realistic FOV.

The only issue with having both is that one could argue the third person would mean no one uses first person anymore. But it could be implemented in such a way that this isn't the case. Maybe third-person doesn't get a HUD (or the HUD elements are moved to the actual cockpit screens). Or maybe first person will still be able to target or lock-on to anything the third person camera could see.

Completely unrelated, yes, there does need to be an in-game tutorial, and it probably should have happened a long time ago.

[Dnarvel]

I am personally against 3rd person view, since it is basically "easy-mode" as described by most people already. If you are adamant about brining it in, then only aloow things to be visible or detectable as in the current 1st person version. So If I am behind an enemy who is in 3rd person, but no-one on their team sees me, than that play in 3rd peron view cannot see me or the weapons hitting their backs. But sine that will take way more rending and server communication than you can handle right now, that won't happen. So giving 3rd person view is a distinct tactical advantage that breaks the immersion of the "Mech-Sim" you promised. Also, as a side note. If you encourage 3rd person view, there is no point selling cockpit items for the mechsm, since no-one will ever be inside the cockpit to see it.

PLEASE Listen to your fanbase, and not the 1% who complain that everything is too hard. IF you continute to do so I see in the future an Alpha rom an Atlas will kill everything in 1-shot.. just like the complainers want. And from an Information gathering perpective, People who are content don't post as much or whine.. Take a look at the number of people complaining versus the number of people playing. That should tell you whether or not it is a problem the WHOLE COMMUNITY faces.

[DeathofSelf]

Protection, on 14 November 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

1) Still offers a view of the terrain - judging distances or planning movements is much easier for 3rd person than first.

2) Too many assets: what about weapons fire? If a laser is fired, do we see where it originates? Do we see it at all? Do we see the same amount of it as the first person player would (and even if we did, a 3rd person player would be able to discern where it was fired from).

3) Destructible environments - supposed to be part of the game at some point. Do we just not see all the knocked down trees and fences? Or do they appear that way instantly when we get Line of sight? Again, with third person, I'd only need a small amount of that information to discern a mech's location.

4) These are not tanks - parts count and move. If I could see an Atlas's arm, only, in first person, do I get to see the whole Atlas in third person, or just a floating arm?

5) Glitchy and exploitable. You're adding more, very difficult algorithms to an already buggy game, and hoping that it wont be able to be exploited or abuse. If it is, the advantage will always be in favour of the 3rd person.

This kind of thing isn't acceptable on a competitive level. Third person needs to be segregated to a newbies only section.

TruePoindexter, on 14 November 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Since this has fallen off the page and people keep bringing up the see around corners thing.

Since YOU (TruePoindexter) ignore holes poked in that theory.

And with that I am done arguing with you and Soy, it's like talking to a brick wall.

Edited by DeathofSelf, 14 November 2012 - 04:42 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

AEgg, on 14 November 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

I don't see it as a particularly bad idea. The "advantage" to be had from a third person view is somewhere between zero and negligible, even less so if it's a MW3-style third person view that's on the ground to the right of the mech instead of floating above it's back.

Third person adds a lot to immersion, simply because a cockpit equates to a HUD for most players, which makes the game seem just like any other shooter. Since you can't turn your head to look around without six monitors (there aren't enough control axis), a cockpit view shows you far less than reality would.

A similar comparison is racing games, where third person is the standard not because it's exactly realistic, but because it's more so than an in-car camera is. An in-car camera means you can't see anything on your left or right until it's already past you, which obviously isn't the case in reality. A third person view gives you the left right view you would really have, while adding a foot or two behind you and a view above you, which means nothing in most racing games.

The lack of control axis will always plague simulation games, at least until circular monitors become popular. Either you have a "real" view location, but a hugely reduced FOV, or you have a "fantasy" view location but a more realistic FOV.

The only issue with having both is that one could argue the third person would mean no one uses first person anymore. But it could be implemented in such a way that this isn't the case. Maybe third-person doesn't get a HUD (or the HUD elements are moved to the actual cockpit screens). Or maybe first person will still be able to target or lock-on to anything the third person camera could see.

Completely unrelated, yes, there does need to be an in-game tutorial, and it probably should have happened a long time ago.

Excellent comment and viewpoint thank you sir!

[Aeross]

I've gone through some of the posts on here, I think all pretty much negative but I feel the need to add my vote to the dog pile. IMHO adding a 3rd person view to a game in progress would be horrible. Inevitably someone would find some type of exploit which adds more to your work load .... which doesn't need to be there. It would be better to focus your efforts to something that actually contributes to the idea of a mech simulator and not some run 'n gun game. The ONLY places I wouldn't mind seeing third person would be before the match starts (While waiting for pilots) and in spectator mode...

[Divine Madcat]

cache, on 14 November 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Don't expect to see anything immediately. It hasn't been implemented so there is no rush. I'm sure they want to look over the feedback, see if there are any usable suggestions, and run them through the idea/testing process.

You assume they listen to feedback *cough* Mechlab *cough* *cough* Double heatsinks *cough*

[GaussDragon]

As much as I've butted heads with the purists/TT grognards in the past, I kinda have to take their side on this one. I used to use 3PV all the time in MW4, but I don't really miss it. I only used it because others did, and not doing so would handicap me. With all the balancing that needs be done and the laundry list of other things that need to be addressed in this game, this seems unnecessary and only complicates game balance further. IMHO there are far more important features than this one.

[Morashtak]

Make it Optional - Optional to use it, Optional to drop against those using a different view, Optional to only drop against those using the same view as you.

Do Not make it Optional in CW.

Make the rewards smaller for using 3rd Person View.

The splitting of the server base is a given but the mass and impact is highly theoretical at this time.

[The Marauder]

Please do NOT implement a third-person view. MechWarrior never has and never should have a third-person view option. It makes no sense physically speaking, and destroys a lot of game mechanics. Implementing a third-person view would make it too simple to locate the source of incoming fire. Players should be self-aware - they should have to be vigilant. Putting in a third-person view will make it extremely easy-mode for a player under fire to say "Hey look! he's over there!" Additionally, how could suppressive fire work after this change?

TL;DR: No, NO NO!!!

[TruePoindexter]

DeathofSelf, on 14 November 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Since YOU ignore holes poked in that theory.

And with that I am done arguing with you and Soy, it's like talking to a brick wall.

I actually already responded to that:

• Your map also gives you a view of the terrain - from space.
  
• I don't see that being an issue since they track who killed who anyway. They can use this to limit what projectiles are visible if it's that big of a concern.
  
• True but a limited case and how is that different from hearing mech footsteps or seeing the glow of Atlas eyes?
  
• How is this a problem?
  
• Not anymore so than shooting/hit detection as is.

And I'm sorry you don't enjoy discussion. I do.

Edited by TruePoindexter, 14 November 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[yalk]

**** no

[Damocles69]

please please please no. when the game was first announced you said this would never be in the game and it is why i bought in and am a founder. do anything else. training missions, free money, free mechs for newbies, i dont care just not this. if it makes it in i will be asking for a refund because i dont want my money going towards something that i was told would never be in the game

[Shalune]

I can see how this would help new players out a lot. To that end I think this could be an option in trial-only matches (which I think need to be implemented for learning purposes too.)

In normal matches and competitive play though I don't understand the need for this. The limited visibility of the cockpit makes it more challenging to maintain situational awareness. This is a good thing. It adds another consideration for a pilot in combat both to free look and turn and have a better knowledge of map geometry. Is this more difficult? Absolutely, but that adds to the skill cap of the game and also adds to the uniqueness of each mech by having different windshields for visibility.

I'm all for making this game more accessible for new players. It needs that. But let's also leave it at "new players."