3696 replies to this topic

[Bushwacked]

Most of the previous posts sum up my feelings but I want my voice to be counted.

As a Legendary founder you have my money I gave it to you in trust that you would live up to your promise and create this awesome MechWarrior Sim. I will to continue to show my support to the game through buying hero mechs, paint jobs, premium time. But as far as I am concerned 3rd person view is not what I payed for and is a game breaking addition. 3rd person view is something I will not pay for or support.

Edited by Bushwacked, 15 November 2012 - 09:30 AM.

[Rokuzachi]

Wolfcp, on 15 November 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

That is even LESS intuitive for a new player. They would look around a corner, see no one there, then call hacks when someone seemingly teleports as they turn the corner.

That's fine, but that wasn't the question.

[Wieland]

Its a mech, i am the pilot, i sit inside.

NO, to 3rd.

[Xantha]

Card, on 14 November 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

We are men of action. Let us be direct with each other.

Those of us who were in the Closed Beta practically begged you to divide matchmaking into 2 pools - one for Grouped players and one for PuGs. Why? Because PUGstomping was going to drive off new players. What we got was some kind of half-baked solution that doesn't solve the problem and just makes everyone unhappy.

Those of us who were in the Closed Beta practically begged you to develop a full Training Level. Why? Because the game has a steep learning curve, and we knew it would drive off new players. What did we get? Ignored.

Those of us who were in the Closed Beta practically begged you not to go to Open Beta with an incomplete, almost broken product which is really little more than a Demo for a game that has potential. Why? Because we knew people who weren't already diehard Mechwarrior fans wouldn't find enough here to hold their interest. What did we get? You moved Open Beta back a few weeks and then launched it anyway.

Now your retention rate for new players is lousy. People are signing up, installing the game, trying a drop or two and quitting.

And you've convinced yourself this is because of torso twist? Seriously?
Now you're interested in our opinion? Seriously?

Great post and this really does sum up the issue. I know I have personally been fighting for a long time for the new player experience which honestly sucks.

Trial mechs, no xp & hard grind for cbills, no tutorials, getting ***** by custom mechs/organized groups, no mechbay comms, guilds, etc. It's truly a lone wolf experience unless you go out and find a guild/clan on the forums.

The fact that PGI believes 3rd person would solve all these problems really concerns me about the future of MWO. Seriously?

[Adrienne Vorton]

following things would be okay for me to implement 3rd person:

1.IF they add a trial vs. trial only que for players with a battle/ skillrating 0 - XXX, which is meant to be "training grounds" ...
problem here: ppl would get used to 3rd person and QQ that much, until PGI gives in to it and adds it to all game modes...

2. in spectatormode, like in many other games too
problem: could be abused in teams...

like mentioned before "you can choose with whom you play" is like "you have the choise to not play the game"... basically...there is enough community split already...

the most important argument for me (or better, one of many) is, that the cockpits are already so damn well designed, and if you guys noticed, there are lots of monitors added now, which are at moment "offline"... one can imagine that they will be used for many things, and that will push the immersion immensely... all wasted, if most people run around in arcade 3rd person view with arcade huds and displays... i call that a total waste, like diamonds to the pigs...

to be honest "people just have problems with the torso blabla" sounds like a bad excuse to me, to give in to the arcade crowd, and to calm us "pro-cockpit" mechwarriors down... 2 days ago, i´d never suspected me to say soemthing like that, and ...ouch...

PGI: spare the energy and ressources to add a 3rd person camera in fight, and better use them to create a goddam tutorial and EXPLAIN new players how you watch on your radar, see where your legs and where your torso point... it´s not like you have to go through combat-flying school to learn that...

and add a "CENTER LEGS TO TORSO" button...about time...

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 15 November 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[Cant Get Right]

I'm not sure how this is a majority vote when it's such a small % of the total player base.
Miniscule at best.
BTW this vote doesn't matter you all realize this yes?

Edited by Cant Get Right, 15 November 2012 - 09:33 AM.

[Justin Xang Allard]

T3kn0man, on 15 November 2012 - 02:36 AM, said:

I do not want third person unless it is in spectator mode for actual spectators, not in game players who have died. That is the only way I would like it. Not in any other capacity. PGI I have been a massive supporter, defender, and founder of your game and vision. This is not consistent with that which I put my faith and money into.

Do not put this mode in. We will regret it, you will regret it, and mechwarrior as a franchise will regret it also.

I have only seen people use third person view to look over hills and around things. Basically as a free cheat mode. I have the same view as the above quoted person.

[Hruodland von Bacharach]

Just wanted to throw my two cents out there. For the purpose of vanity shots It would be cool, but for game play I hate the idea. The only way I would like it is if when in third person you had no HUD thus you may have gained an advantage by the view but you are loosing everything you need to control the mech.

[Agarwaen]

It's too bad I didn't read the founders package contract's fine print. I really wonder if this constitutes a breach, going against a previously stated core philosophy after investors have put money behind your product is normally something that gets your company sued for all the money said investors have put into your product.

I'm fairly certain the point has been made. Virtually, no one who has any intent of paying money for your service is in support of a 3rd person view.

[Dimento Graven]

Cant Get Right, on 15 November 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

I'm not sure how this is a majority vote when it's such a small % of the total player base.
Miniscule at best.
BTW this vote doesn't matter you all realize this yes?

Actually, the respondants compared to the the maximum number of live players I saw on the server, prior to their eliminating that, makes this a 'majority' vote.

Yes, I understand that the MWO community has over 400,000 players, but at least prior to their removing the information, no more than 4,000 played at any given time. We're well above 50% of that number, so it can be conjectured that the over all community would break down in the same percentages, if it were possible to poll all 400,000+ community members.

Heck if it's good enough for presidential polling...

[Zeus X]

Justin Xang Allard, on 15 November 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

I have only seen people use third person view to look over hills and around things. Basically as a free cheat mode. I have the same view as the above quoted person.

And if 3rd was to be put in here, thats what would happen, straight rabbit hopping, and looking to see if a flank is happening.

[Antasius]

A 3rd person view needs to be tactically unimportant, for training purposes only, and/or a "vanity view" at best.

I was thinking a community division over this may be a healthy one, but now I'm not so sure.

[Kalathin]

Please don't..... I played Hawken for all of one match and deleted it because it was a FPS with a mech. And it seems like that is the goal here too. I understand there is a learning curve, there always has been in MechWarrior. But the people that WANT to play MechWarrior will learn. Those that can't won't stay regardless of the view. By implementing 3rd person you destroy the information warfare that you are trying to implement. It destroys the entire game mechanic. Scouting is obsolete. ECM pointless, a line of sight based radar system becomes a waste of screen space. It eliminates tactical warfare and creates nothing more than a 3rd person death match. MWO would lose everything that makes it unique. Please don't do that to your selves. You guys have worked too hard. I'm afraid to see your player base turn and leave before this game closes out open beta.

[Terror Teddy]

AA Yeti, on 15 November 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

I voted Yes
It's going to be a setting, in matchmaking.

If you toggle it on you will play against people who also use 3rd person settings.
If you leave it off you will only play against people forced into first person view.

Allright, I'd allow for that. BUT, as long as BOTH teams have the same setting.

[Cant Get Right]

Dimento Graven, on 15 November 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

Actually, the respondants compared to the the maximum number of live players I saw on the server, prior to their eliminating that, makes this a 'majority' vote.

Yes, I understand that the MWO community has over 400,000 players, but at least prior to their removing the information, no more than 4,000 played at any given time. We're well above 50% of that number, so it can be conjectured that the over all community would break down in the same percentages, if it were possible to poll all 400,000+ community members.

Heck if it's good enough for presidential polling...

but it isn't and polls mean nothing. W/out going in to too much politics It was gonna be close and something about a landslide.
Imo the most relevant thing you said was in one word. Conjecture.

[Kraven Kor]

Everyone just quote and repost this, over and over and over:

Quote

Card, on 14 November 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:
We are men of action. Let us be direct with each other.

Those of us who were in the Closed Beta practically begged you to divide matchmaking into 2 pools - one for Grouped players and one for PuGs. Why? Because PUGstomping was going to drive off new players. What we got was some kind of half-baked solution that doesn't solve the problem and just makes everyone unhappy.

Those of us who were in the Closed Beta practically begged you to develop a full Training Level. Why? Because the game has a steep learning curve, and we knew it would drive off new players. What did we get? Ignored.

Those of us who were in the Closed Beta practically begged you not to go to Open Beta with an incomplete, almost broken product which is really little more than a Demo for a game that has potential. Why? Because we knew people who weren't already diehard Mechwarrior fans wouldn't find enough here to hold their interest. What did we get? You moved Open Beta back a few weeks and then launched it anyway.

Now your retention rate for new players is lousy. People are signing up, installing the game, trying a drop or two and quitting.

And you've convinced yourself this is because of torso twist? Seriously?
Now you're interested in our opinion? Seriously?

[Coralld]

Mavairo, on 15 November 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

I suspect that about 1/3 of the "I want 3rd person!" crowd really just wants this. The other 2/3s really are that uncoordinated.

From what I have witnessed in game, the incoordination happens during combat as I see people who are not in combat situation are able to pilot their mech just fine. Those that do have trouble while just getting from point A to point B is due to lag/Frame rates dropping. The ones who are uncoordinated in combat and bumping into everything has to do with a number of factors. First off, tunnel vision, people get so focused on their target that they lose track of their surroundings. Second, Panic, when people start panicking this compounds the problem of tunnel vision and go with what is instinctual. Thirdly, people try to make sharp turn with their mech while flooring it at max speed, not realizing that what they need to do to avoid from hitting the side of that mountain is to simply throttle back to give their mech time to avoid hitting the wall. Which can be done as long as people keep track of their surrounding, which brings us back to my first point.

[von Pilsner]

[Bully_Hayes]

As a new player I am against 3rd person view in any form. I am of the opinion that the best things that can be done to help new players rather then change the gameplay dynamics would be to provide a training/practice server and the reverse of the chassis align key to rotate the lower torso to align with line of sight rather then LOS aligning with the lower torso as it is now.The later change would get new players out of movement trouble better and faster I believe then the use of a 3rd person view.From my perspective that has been the single most frustrating aspect of movement in MWO and as such the reversing of that command would in my opinion be the single best improvement you could make for new players, rather then implement a 3rd person view to help with that problem as mentioned in the podcast.

[Death Dealer 199]

Third person is just mech commander all over again. I do not want nor will I play 3p. If they go 3p only I will leave.