3696 replies to this topic

[Tresch]

Just going to add my word in here. I general stand behind PGI with many of the tough decisions they've made, because I know making a game like this is difficult.

the 3rd person option is so far beyond that, I really don't know what to say. I really don't. I want to rant, but so many people already have. It just absolutely infuriates me that every game has to boil itself down to the lowest common denominator. The reason most of us are here is because mechwarrior DOESN'T do exactly that. We're all starving... DESPERATE for complicated, immersive, simulator games. You did it! You made what we've wanted and have been dying to play for years! Why on earth would you double back on that?

You made a hard game because you WANTED TO PLAY A HARD GAME. Now people are whining that it's hard so you're just making it easy? Why not put that development time into making better learning tools, or better marketing to make your case as to why things are the way they are? Mechwarrior is not a game for everyone. Please don't try and twist it into that.

I suppose that's the only thing to say, really. Please.

Please? Please. Please don't.

[Lokust Davion]

Roni, on 19 November 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

I share the same sentiment, I haven't tried Hawken though.

Just seems a bit offputting after hearing from this co things like, "evolution in F2P gaming", then they copy Tanks business model and garage ui. I would of liked it more had they made their own Mechlab, this one seems bland and unexciting, the WoT garage "inspired" mechlab does not do the fun of customising mechs any credit. I really dislike copies, I always like buying original products.. even if they were to get interface and business ideas inspired from another games.. please.. pick another game.. not WoT.. The Mechlab is where your supposed to be sitting in alot of the time, something exciting and original wouldn't be too hard?..

Everytime I look at my mechlab now I think of Tanks garage, leaves a bad aftertaste in my mind.

And their proposed design of MechLab 2.0 is not that different from the MechLab we have now. This game is turning into World of Mechs real quick. Even the base capture design is pure ripoff from World of Tanks.

[Mr Mantis]

I will admit it took a few games to get used to the idea that my legs go where I tell them my torso goes wherever it wants.

We should not assume this will make the game less accessable to new players.

every game has a learning curve and if you think the curve too steap the proper way to correct it is with a good totorial. Unfortionatly this does not make much sence from a development standpoint, why spend all that time building a totorial that less than 1% of the people playing would ever use it and about .01% need. furthermore that totorial game would need to be compleatly seporate from any other part of the game, stored on the players hardrive (ouch my memory), or stored in one of the game servers, that should be used for more real games.

I would love to look at the 3rd person view but only after I have died, or before a match starts. after that strap in because it is going to be a 1st person ride.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Kotrin, on 19 November 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

YES to third-person view.

1. Torso-Leg alignment is one of the top issue new players struggle with. More user friendly = more new blood = more success. And it's totally different to experience torso-twist in a FPS or on a tabletop boardgame...

there are 2 carrots on your compass. bottom one is torso heading. top one is LEG heading.

Kotrin, on 19 November 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

2. "I don't want that / I'm doing fine without". Sure. Nobody forces you into using 3rd person view. Enjoy your cockpit view.

incorrect. period. the moment they breach the 1st person KEY DESIGN PILLAR, it becomes the ONLY tactical way to play this game as Third Person Views allow for you to see above and over hills w/out risk to your mech. Same with seeing AROUND corners.

Kotrin, on 19 November 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

3. "It's unrealistic / MWO is a simulator / whatever". Realism in a year 3050 giant robot combat game where artillery has half a mile range, targeting computers weight tons, and humanity is stupid enough to still struggle for land in a galactic empire? Puh-lease. It's a damn game. And you know what? All the fluff about neuro-helmet and 'Mech-brain interface could totally translate in a 3rd person view once you're in the 'Mech seat. Who knows?

artillery now can fire and strike you more than 20 miles out TODAY, 19 November 2012. Next?

Kotrin, on 19 November 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

4. What's the point of selling 'Mech paint jobs if we can't truly enjoy them in-game? Everyone will see them but the owner, or just in 'Mech garage. Fail.

the Fail is pandering to a categorically and statistically insignificant portion of the games population and forcing the 91%+ portion of the population away from the game, sending away money from this game. Not to mention the financial backlash that will occur from the majority of founders demanding refunds and leaving en mass.

Kotrin, on 19 November 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

5. "We're hating it! Hating it I tell you!" perhaps it's true, but you're a market segment not of much use to PGI anymore. They sucked dry the Mechwarrior / Battletech community with the founder program, now it's time they turn their attention to more generic players. In other words, polls are fun, but do not count.

we, those who demand they firstly, do not commit an act of FALSE Advertising and FALSE Product Representation, are of a HUGE use to PGI, we are the ones who will <if they do NOT do 3rd person> invest in this game w/out question for years to come. Sorry man, but, polls do count, they are a very poignant indicator of public opinion, and how we as a group feel. There is an old business saying: For every ONE customer that voices his or her opinion in dissatisfaction, there are 10,000 MORE that feel the same way, but do not say so. So, yeah, we kinda are important.

Kotrin, on 19 November 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

6. "It gives an unfair advantage..." since it's not even yet implemented, it's hard to tell, but somehow contradicting #2, and it can be balanced by other things (like giving less info to people using 3rd person than 1st person). But honestly, between people shooting teammates, 'Mechs not fully repaired, guys going AFK or disconnecting after 1 sec of play and newbies continuously running in walls - the most common flock gathering in my PUG team, as it seems - I sincerely doubt that a 3rd person view will be game-breaking.

any information that is available to the person using 3rd person that is NOT available just as fast and easy to the pilot in FIRST PERSON ONLY, is a tactical advantage. period. There is 0 way to implement a 3rd person view that is not a game breaking fundamental breach of a KEY DESIGN PILLAR. Below will be linked a post by Lead Designer and PGI Employee Paul Inouye who states implicitly this fact. Which again, opens up PGI to False Product Representation and False Advertising Litigation if they do in fact foolishly add 3rd person views, because again, an employee, acting as an employee with the backing of PGI made a documented declaration. So does this very website under the GAMES tab up top, scroll all the way down.

Kotrin, on 19 November 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

I know I'm going to be flamed by 91% of the community, but at a point such things had to be stated openly.

as promised, the post:

Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:36 PM



MechWarrior Online is being designed to put you the player in the seat of the pilot. It is 100% first person view only. Being the pilot is one of our key design pillars and 3rd person breaks that pillar on multiple levels as seen in many of the other 3rd Person discussions.

We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings, but this is very far off in the distance.

While we appreciate those who enjoy 3rd person, MWO will be 1st person out of the gate and in the near future.

-Paul
Lead Designer

here is the exact link to the above post if you think I am making this up:
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

EDIT: small formatting edit to remove some code that followed in the cut and paste.

Edited by Rejarial Galatan, 19 November 2012 - 08:25 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I just had to do this for the idea of 3rd person views being anywhere near useful or smart for this game:

[Rejarial Galatan]

SOME of what PGI is doing is obviously copied from WoT. The base capture is a PLACE HOLDER. Nothing more. This is BETA, bail now if you want, we will not miss you. However, SOME of this game is taken from BT TT, and thats what makes this different.

[wintersborn]

I voted yes but maybe this is not the game for me or so I am told.

To me I want to see something besides the generic cockpit but I thought this was more of a shooter with mechs than a simulator with table top rules.

Whats wrong with wanting to see your mech in action ?

[Gorith]

Johnny Human, on 19 November 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

Ok, this actually is not a bad idea. Use a drone module which requires a controller taking up a slot on your mech, weighs .5 tons. And if it gets destroyed in battle you lose your third person view.

There! We've done it. We've created a hypothetical mechanism by which you could reasonably have a 3rd person view while maintaining the game's "tactical battle simulator" genre by having actual tactical considerations and trade-offs involved.

It would have to be heavier or take up alot more space to account for the tactical advantages. Also would be nice if an ECM equipped mech being close to you jams out your 3rd person (say like 4 slots or 4 tons)

[Sean von Steinike]

Only 181 lamers so far. There is hope.

[Lampshade 1]

Oh god this thread is a train wreck.

[Sug]

I can't look away.

[Rejarial Galatan]

wintersborn, on 19 November 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

I voted yes but maybe this is not the game for me or so I am told.

To me I want to see something besides the generic cockpit but I thought this was more of a shooter with mechs than a simulator with table top rules.

Whats wrong with wanting to see your mech in action ?

tactical advantages to third person camera, and the forced use by all, which is a bad thing. Also to point out, they sold us a bill of goods stating that this game is designed for 100% first person ONLY. This is after all a Tactical Combat Mech SIMULATOR, not Modern Warfare 3 or Mechassault.

Edited by Rejarial Galatan, 19 November 2012 - 11:02 PM.

[Deus0331]

3rd Person will splt an already small community in half......not a good idea

[Sean von Steinike]

Deus bellator, on 19 November 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

3rd Person will splt an already small community in half......not a good idea

Well, from the looks of it, under 10% will use this absurd and infantile mode of game play. They'd be real lonely. Still a worthless waste of effort any way one looks at it.

[AndyHill]

Unfortunately I don't buy that "Newbies will only use it for a while" explanation. They will not want to move from the easy mode (and will soon be demanding changes to the overly complex heat mechanic and having to aim at targets etc.), which will fragment the community. Next, PGI sees they have a fragmented player base and what do they do? Unite everyone under the game mode they feel will sell best. Remember what they said about why they think Tanks is so popular?

[MaddMaxx]

"We had a Dream!" (then they implemented 3rd person...)

[DarklightCA]

I like seeing out of my cockpit, I'll never use 3rd person. I think it should only be used for film making. As such once in the mode it should disable huds so it has no actual combat effect. Only film making purposes but that's just me. I suppose there are players that may actually enjoy some 3rd person view.

[Johnny Human]

Deus bellator, on 19 November 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

3rd Person will splt an already small community in half......not a good idea

No, it split the community into 9/10ths and 1/10th.

[Johnny Human]

Sean von Steinike, on 19 November 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

Well, from the looks of it, under 10% will use this absurd and infantile mode of game play. They'd be real lonely. Still a worthless waste of effort any way one looks at it.

No, actually quite the opposite. If 3rd person view is implemented, it's the first person players that will be in the minority. Those that don't mind playing at a tactical disadvantage.

[Lokust Davion]

Will 3rd person come with 20th patch?