3696 replies to this topic

[Greyfyl]

I wonder if PGI has figured out yet that the community does not want 3rd person?

[Ageis]

Please god no. this is a sim not a run n gun shooter!

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

malibu43, on 14 November 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

Didn't the devs already say they would implement it in a way that doesn't give an advantage? Why is everyone ignoring this?

How do you balance something in that gives superior situational awareness?

[Purplefluffybunny]

Personally I do not want a 3rd person mode. Being forced to play from the cockpit allows the particular characteristics of the mech models, such as visibility from the cockpit, to come into play.

In terms of an extra balancing attribute, PGI would do well to explore this mech characteristic in relation to head hit box size and head slot armor modifications.

If we had a 3rd person view, such nuances an depth would be lost and impossible to exploit.

Edited by Purplefluffybunny, 14 November 2012 - 02:09 PM.

[Protection]

Aegis Kleais, on 14 November 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

My suggestion:

Soy, on 14 November 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

If someone can give me one argument against a 3pv being implemented like this, I'd love to hear it.

1) Still offers a view of the terrain - judging distances or planning movements is much easier for 3rd person than first.

2) Too many assets: what about weapons fire? If a laser is fired, do we see where it originates? Do we see it at all? Do we see the same amount of it as the first person player would (and even if we did, a 3rd person player would be able to discern where it was fired from).

3) Destructible environments - supposed to be part of the game at some point. Do we just not see all the knocked down trees and fences? Or do they appear that way instantly when we get Line of sight? Again, with third person, I'd only need a small amount of that information to discern a mech's location.

4) These are not tanks - parts count and move. If I could see an Atlas's arm, only, in first person, do I get to see the whole Atlas in third person, or just a floating arm?

5) Glitchy and exploitable. You're adding more, very difficult algorithms to an already buggy game, and hoping that it wont be able to be exploited or abuse. If it is, the advantage will always be in favour of the 3rd person.

This kind of thing isn't acceptable on a competitive level. Third person needs to be segregated to a newbies only section.

[Zynk]

NO 3rd person view!

Granted the learning curve is higher then in a FPS but a tutorial would fix the problem.

Make a map for new players to learn on, how to move use JJ's and config weapons groups.

Do not cave on this to appease a vocal minority.

[Scratx]

Soy, on 14 November 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

If someone can give me one argument against a 3pv being implemented like this, I'd love to hear it.

If you can see the rear of your own mech you can (probably) see the weapons hitting it, thus knowing what you're being hit with and from which direction.

[Mizore]

3rd person view would definitely kill the tactical component of MWO, because everyone could look around corners and see what the enemy does, without beeing in danger to be spotted or attacked... please don't do this to us, or MWO would just become yet another casual semi-brain-afk game .

The only way 3rd person view would be acceptable for me could be a training mode, where you can't gain xp or c-bills... but then new people would ask, why they don't have the 3rd person view in other game modes, sooo... no, better leave 3rd person view completely out of the game!

Edited by Mizore, 14 November 2012 - 03:53 PM.

[LogicSol]

Stormfury, on 14 November 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

This will further confuse them on the issue. Jump in mech, play 3rd person, make some money, buy mech, get shoved into 1st person. Is that really the solution? It'd be like shoving them into a completely different game.

If this is truly to help new players then put in a freaking tutorial and training ground into the game. There doesn't need to be any complex AI or bots in this. Toss some select able and non moving targets at various ranges that the user can shoot at and give them some form of instructions on how to torso twist, weapon group etc.

It just needs to be made clear that 3rd person is for learning movement.

It really boils done to this. If you don't want to learn the game you shouldn't play it.

A real tutorial would definitely be preferable. However, it's not really going to help people as much as you think.
The current video tutorial already explicitly explains how torso twisting works. People that skip that will also skip the in game version.

[Soy]

Warden - the issues you brought up are the exact issues I have thought about regarding this feature, great ponts. There will definitely be issues that crop up related to bugs, balance, etc. I think some innovation solutions would be required as the feature is fleshed out and playstyles are adapted to it.

Protection - Why do you think that 3pv is utilized by newbies. Go look at any game that plays FPS with extra cameras and you will realize that most high level players adapt these features into their playstyle. A new player is not going to be able to gain as much utility out of an extra view as a more experienced player. So whats the point you're getting at again about a competitive level of play? I've seen a lot of games that are taken to a higher level of competitive play as a result of such features being implemented, not the other way around. I think you feel that such a view would water down the purity of the game and that skill or higher levels of play should rise out of this pure playstyle. I respect that opinion but that doesn't mean it's the end-all of competitive play.

Vollstrecker, on 14 November 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

Good work, I couldn't resist this one. Show me where I ever said anything closely resembling that, or admit you're just assuming things because of my Founder's Tag.

Excellent display of vanity. This tangent we're on was never about you or directed at you. Read the thread and look at all the people threatening to quit or wig out if this feature is implemented on the basis of "I paid X RL money". Why are you even bringing this up unless you really think I'm talking about you - news flash, I'm not, never was. Move on.

Edited by Soy, 14 November 2012 - 02:11 PM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

But it's hard to give such a feature without it giving some kind of advantage. The only real option here is to remove the HUD while it is active(So people can check out their Mechs or take screen shots but not actually fight with it), or limit it to spectator mode as I suggested. If you have other ideas, please share.

[Moriant]

No way.

The fact that 3rd person view is even being considered lowers my faith in the developers.

[Solis Obscuri]

Vassago Rain, on 14 November 2012 - 04:44 AM, said:

But it's important we appeal to the Skyrim audience. i want to know why they made the cockpit if this was on the schedule all along.

No one's gonna use first person if you can see around corners, and over hills.

I hate the 3rd person view in Skyrim.

Especially when I accidentally activate it mid fight by pushing the thumbstick too hard...

[TruePoindexter]

DeathofSelf, on 14 November 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

I stand by every single word I said in that post, what makes me uncomfortable is the apparent lack of effort and problem solving on your and your friends part. This game is not that complicated, yes it does take thought, which I like. If you want a thoughtless point and shoot game, this is not for you, there are plenty of point and shoot games out there if that is really what you want.

Wow. I never said I had a problem understanding this game. But apparently I do now? Also alienation and exclusion are cool now I guess? And someone else liked it? I'm at a loss for words.

How does adding 3rd person camera change any of the concepts of heat management, role warfare, and weapon selection. You will still need to lead your shots and target sections of your enemy. All that changes is that for some people they don't get stock on that building as often and in some cases you might be able to see over a hill that you otherwise normally couldn't. And that somehow makes it a "thoughtless point and shoot game?"

Alois Hammer, on 14 November 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

They could also benefit from a real tutorial telling them how this game works, rather than taking the (sadly often accurate) approach "It's just another game, it'll play and be controlled like all the others."

Isn't that kind of like how computers are all interacted with the same way and how all tablets work more or less the same? I guess that's a bad thing now? I guess we should throw out the concept of user expectations: http://en.wikipedia....er_expectations

Alois Hammer, on 14 November 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

The silent get heard to the extent that they deserve, and the power to change that is within their grasp should they choose to get off the couch and use it.

How Machiavellian of you. They deserve it do they? It's within their power after all. But is it really? Look at how fervently I am getting negative feedback because I side with the inexperienced player despite having been a hardcore MW and BT fan for decades. Now imagine the flaming a new player receives for saying that they find the game difficult.

[Greyfyl]

Kilgore, on 14 November 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

Russ said enough to tell me he's aware of how important it will be to implement it correctly.

Yes, and I'm sure he would never lie to you even if he thinks full 3rd person will bring in more cash. He is a salesman...he is going to tell us what he thinks we want to hear. End of story. You need to quit thinking that this guy is your buddy.

[RedHairDave]

i like the drone that can be shot down.

[Strykeforce]

I was there for that podcast, and there was an overwhelming outcry from the audience, some extremely passionate.

I do not recall any of the audience saying "yes let's have 3rd person view".

Would this not have given PGI some indication that 3rd person view is not wanted in this simulation?

[CeeKay Boques]

In MW4, it split the community, ne'er the two did meet except when the 1st person servers were down. (which doesn't help the case, I know.)

3rd person is an end of cycle jump the shark you can throw in 5 years from now if the games winding down, don't burn it now!

Edited by Technoviking, 14 November 2012 - 02:12 PM.

[Quxudica]

malibu43, on 14 November 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

Seeing as it was such a big issue in MW4, don't you think the devs are aware of it and will be taking steps to ensure it can't be used as an advantage in MWO?

Didn't the devs already say they would implement it in a way that doesn't give an advantage? Why is everyone ignoring this?

Because it damages the feel of the game (playing this game in third person will have a completely different vibe then first), It's an unneccisary distraction for the resources and dev attention when we already have a massive list of things yet to be introduced/fixed, it splits the player base (at best), and worst of all it does not solve the root cause of the problem (zero tutorial in game).

Quote

Especially when I accidentally activate it mid fight by pushing the thumbstick too hard...

Console Elder Scrolls make me a sad mecha-panda. Though maybe that's because I tend to view mods as the only reason to buy those games. Why do people keep throwing around WoW and Skyrim? Those are completely different genres that have absolutely zero to do with this issue.

Edited by Quxudica, 14 November 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[Teralitha]

Guido, on 14 November 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

won't help bring in loyal customers who will actually pay for the cockpit objects.

This is very true... as 3rd person players have no reason to buy such things as they will never see them....